Redesigning Samus (but keeping her the same)

[Jotari]

EDIT: This post was originally just about Samus's new melee attacks and how they could be used in Smash. But then I ended up redesigning her completely and it kind of became a series of topics I've started on other characters. Below the moveset is my original post.


Other redesigns

https://smashboards.com/threads/redesinging-ganondorf-but-keeping-him-the-same.513191/
https://smashboards.com/threads/new-melee-moves-for-samus.515562/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-link-but-keeping-him-the-same.518191/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redeisgning-kirby-but-keeping-him-the-same.521634/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-zelda-but-keeping-her-the-same.521781/
https://smashboards.com/threads/redesigning-ike-but-keeping-him-the-same.522334/


Okay. Here are my indepth changes I'd make to Samus.

First up her Forward Smash. Nothing particularly wrong with it now, but I love that new Melee counter and want to see it in the game. In fact, someone has already modded it in.

I don't want to see it as an actual counter though. We have enough of them. Instead it is a powerful arm canon bash. While there's no built in counter effect, it has very little ending lag allowing Samus to successfully combo it into other attacks (provided the knockback hasn't sent enemies flying) or bait enemies into attacking by whiffing it and then following up with something else. It also has great priority over other moves, a bit like Sonic's forward Smash.

Next up is her Down Smash where we have something I mentioned in the opening. A new item from Dread that just really works as a Down Smash for her in my mind.

The charging part of the Smash attack happens when Samus is in morph ball, meaning she is harder to hit when preparing for this move. And though the bombs hit in a fair distance, their area is quite precise.


Samus's up Smash is fine as it is, a stream of fire. Fun fact, one can consider this a reference to the Flame Thrower in Metroid Prime, but the attack actually predates Metroid Prime. Anyway, her up smash is fine, but I don't really like her up tilt. Samus did quite a few kicks in Other M, but an axe kick like that just doesn't strike me as Samus. Plus it's a clone move of Captain Falcon she's been holding on to for about 20 years now. So I think it's best to change it. So my version of her up tilt would be based on the wave beam. In visuals it would be similar to her up smash, Samus sweeps her arm canon in an arc upwards releasing a jet of purple electricity that trails behind in a sinewave pattern (this is too complex for me to make a gif out of, at least this late in the evening). This makes her up tilt and up Smash similar to Zelda's, both are arcing attacks travelling over Samus, with the Smash attack being a multi hit powerful attack, while the up tilt is a quicker attack that knocks enemies away.


Now onto her new down tilt. Functionally in a lot of ways this attack remains unchanged. It still deals quick, decent, vertical knockback. However it is now an ice attack that freezes at high %.

Samus can freze things, it's a pretty noteworthy trait of hers, yet it is absent entirely in Smash and this irks me to no end. It's only her main method of dealing with Metroid for crying out loud! So it's been added to her down tilt.

In addition to giving her an ice attack on her down tilt, I've given it to two more attacks. The first is her neutral aerial.

This attack is much weaker and the freeze function of it is almost non existent, only coming into play with enemies that have such high damage they should have been dead long ago. It's based on the Ice Shield, a secret attack for Samus in Super Metroid.

The last ice attack is one that is purely visual, her up throw. Currently her up throw involves tossing her enemies upwards and blasting them with her arm canon. This remains the same attack for the most part, only before tossing her enemy upwards, Samus freezes them, not the standard big iceberg freeze of Smash bros., but a different visual element that makes the enemy go entirely white. Right now Samus blasts the enemy from point blank range with her arm canon, but for my variation of the attack they will be thrown a bit higher and it will be clear that Samus is firing a Super Missile at them. This sequence is of course in reference to Samus's typical way of dealing with Metroids, by freezing them first and then blasting them with missiles.

Other M has an attack called Over Blast, which was also used as an animation in Samus Returns. Basically Samus jumps on top of an enemy and fires her into them. I think this could work well as Samus's down throw. Unlike regular throws, the amount of power this throw deals is increased if Samus has a fully charged charge shot. However it uses up the charge.
View attachment 334913

I also think her Dash Attack should be an obvious reference to the Speed Booster. This wouldn't be difficult to do, just put some after images of Samus behind her as she performs the attack. I made a gif of this too, but some how it turned into a video.

https://i.imgur.com/l8Pbqjo.mp4

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Find, rate and share the best memes and images. Discover the magic of the Internet at Imgur.

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I was going to make her bicycle kick Melee counter from Dread an uptilt, but I actually think this would work perfectly as a getup attack.

For her special attacks, I'm in two minds about the Charge Blast. On one hand, it's kind of cool and it's been around in Smash forever. On the the other hand Samus's charge attacks looks nothing like that in any of her games. And functionally it could be altered without changing many of the hitboxes of the attack by having her shoot the Spazer/Wide beam. In either case I think being able to aim it like you can ROB's Robolaser would make the attack way more useful and authentic, though perhaps that would make it too useful.

No way to fit her slide in I just like her current dash attack and down tilt too much.



-----
So this is something that cropped up when Metroid 2: Return of Samus was announced. In it Samus for the first time in her games was given a proper melee attack. Smash Ultimate chose not to do anything with it. Somewhat understandable, it's a pretty generic strike with her arm cannon, something she already been doing in Smash for years with her down aerial and the second hit of her jab. But now we have Dread which has retained Samus's melee attack and made it more visually interesting by giving it a dash variation and even a double kick if using it out of morph ball. Samus also noteably has a slide as well. It's not an attack in Metroid Dread, but it is a noticable new movement option for her that easily could be used as an attack in Smash Bros.

So with all that in mind, is it worth changing any of Samus's attacks to give her an attack that's technically from her own game? Well one easy way to do it would be to just change the second hit of her jab slightly so it's an upward arm cannon strike, but I doubt that they care that much to change something like that. What seems more realistic is that they might change her forward aerial, now a stream of fire balls shot from her arm cannon, into her melee attack. The slide could potentially be a down tilt, though I do kind of like her current explosive down tilt, dash attack is another option. By far what I think would be most likely though would be to change her forward Smash into a powerful counter hit based on the dash variant which gets stronger throughout Metroid Dread (her forward Smash has always felt visually weak to me). Her Up Tilt and Down Smash are also two moves I don't particularly like on Samus, maybe her up Tilt could be the flip kick out of the Morph ball only without the morph ball (and I think one of Samus's proper new abilities, the cross bombs could work for a down smash).

Or they could just ignore all this new stuff again and give us the same attacks Samus has been using since Smash 64. That's an option too.

 

[uptonogood]

I love the idea of giving Samus some fresh moves. I personally think the next game should go overboard and redo most of her attacks from scratch. I made a google slideshow on how I would change her attacks if anyone finds it interesting. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1QYq_Uo92_u-pO-ysfbRfV_1SX3e6og8Y1lsLbIOhHOU/edit

 

[Jotari]

I love the idea of giving Samus some fresh moves. I personally think the next game should go overboard and redo most of her attacks from scratch. I made a google slideshow on how I would change her attacks if anyone finds it interesting. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1QYq_Uo92_u-pO-ysfbRfV_1SX3e6og8Y1lsLbIOhHOU/edit

I don't really like the idea of basically copying Mega Man and giving her projectiles on her normal moves. I don't think it would actually feel all that much like how Samus actually plays in her own game. In Mega Man's case it works, as Mega Man's regular peashooter doesn't feel that powerful, Megaman's useful abilities all come from the weapons he gets, but it's not the same for Samus. Samus's regular beam attacks do feel powerful, especially by end game when they're all stacked together. Having them as a standard jab or running move would feel weak. And while changing beam types using Smash attacks sounds like a cool idea, in practice I think it'd be there for the sake of having references more so than actually providing much depth or practicality to Samus's moveset. I do really like the idea of the Melee counter being her up Tilt, I never considered that, but it works. Especially since her current up tilt is one of my least favourite moves on her.

Shame you didn't put the Cross Bombs in, my new favourite item for her.

Not sure how I feel about Dark Samus getting the Boost Ball for her dash attack. It'd be a really weird dash attack as it'd hit so low compared to most, meaning it wouldn't have much use for juggling, consequently though it'd be pretty safe to use (provided it has good endframes) due to how it would basically be like she's crouching during the move. I feel like it could maybe work better as a Down Tilt so it's like Cloud and a few other characters that have sliding down tilts. On the other hand that wouldn't look as good visually and I already like the explosion down tilt. Hmm, I guess an esoteric dash attack is cool. I mean it'd be somewhat unique to have a dash attack that hits so much lower than expected, so it could be a reasonably interesting move.

You don't name Dark Samus's neutral air, but I guess it's based on the Hyper Ball from Metroid Prime 3. In the same vein we already have Hyper Missiles as a name for her side special.

I've speculated the same move for her Up Special since shortly after Brawl's release when SSB4 speculation was all the rage. No comments on your functionality of it, but I think a much better name for it would be Leviathan, given she resembles a meteor and that's the name of the phazon meteors that appear in Metroid Prime 3.

So Phazon Magnet is essentialy Lucas and Ness's PSI Magnet only as a reflector rather than a HP absorber? Becuase if it just plain damages any enemies it comes into contact with and reflects things, then how in the world is the enemy meant to get around it without having a tether grab?

 

[uptonogood]

I don't really like the idea of basically copying Mega Man and giving her projectiles on her normal moves. I don't think it would actually feel all that much like how Samus actually plays in her own game. In Mega Man's case it works, as Mega Man's regular peashooter doesn't feel that powerful, Megaman's useful abilities all come from the weapons he gets, but it's not the same for Samus. Samus's regular beam attacks do feel powerful, especially by end game when they're all stacked together. Having them as a standard jab or running move would feel weak. And while changing beam types using Smash attacks sounds like a cool idea, in practice I think it'd be there for the sake of having references more so than actually providing much depth or practicality to Samus's moveset. I do really like the idea of the Melee counter being her up Tilt, I never considered that, but it works. Especially since her current up tilt is one of my least favourite moves on her.

Shame you didn't put the Cross Bombs in, my new favourite item for her.

Not sure how I feel about Dark Samus getting the Boost Ball for her dash attack. It'd be a really weird dash attack as it'd hit so low compared to most, meaning it wouldn't have much use for juggling, consequently though it'd be pretty safe to use (provided it has good endframes) due to how it would basically be like she's crouching during the move. I feel like it could maybe work better as a Down Tilt so it's like Cloud and a few other characters that have sliding down tilts. On the other hand that wouldn't look as good visually and I already like the explosion down tilt. Hmm, I guess an esoteric dash attack is cool. I mean it'd be somewhat unique to have a dash attack that hits so much lower than expected, so it could be a reasonably interesting move.

You don't name Dark Samus's neutral air, but I guess it's based on the Hyper Ball from Metroid Prime 3. In the same vein we already have Hyper Missiles as a name for her side special.

I've speculated the same move for her Up Special since shortly after Brawl's release when SSB4 speculation was all the rage. No comments on your functionality of it, but I think a much better name for it would be Leviathan, given she resembles a meteor and that's the name of the phazon meteors that appear in Metroid Prime 3.

So Phazon Magnet is essentialy Lucas and Ness's PSI Magnet only as a reflector rather than a HP absorber? Becuase if it just plain damages any enemies it comes into contact with and reflects things, then how in the world is the enemy meant to get around it without having a tether grab?

It’s not exactly copying if it’s an accurate portrayal to the source material. That’s like saying any character that swings a sword is copying one another. Samus’ powerbeam doesn’t feel powerful, that’s the entire point of the Beam upgrades, to make them feel powerful for a brief time. The attack itself is meant to rack up damage fast, and I feel it does the job well while being accurate to the character. Even without the Beam upgrades, it still does the character a better service than the current neutral attack.

For Dark Samus, I’m not as attached to that moveset so I’m definitely looking for ways I can fix it up some so I appreciate the feedback. Can you elaborate more on what you mean with the down special?

 

[Jotari]

It’s not exactly copying if it’s an accurate portrayal to the source material. That’s like saying any character that swings a sword is copying one another. Samus’ powerbeam doesn’t feel powerful, that’s the entire point of the Beam upgrades, to make them feel powerful for a brief time. The attack itself is meant to rack up damage fast, and I feel it does the job well while being accurate to the character. Even without the Beam upgrades, it still does the character a better service than the current neutral attack.

But that's my issue, I don't think it would feel like an accurate portrayal as it wouldn't be able to get the sufficient power Samus's beam attacks (even the basic early game ones) have while still remaining balanced in Smash. For Smashes and for Special Attacks, sure, but for a neutral jab or a running forward tilt, no, it just wouldn't feel like Samus unless things are exploding when she hits them.

For Dark Samus, I’m not as attached to that moveset so I’m definitely looking for ways I can fix it up some so I appreciate the feedback. Can you elaborate more on what you mean with the down special?

I'm more asking you to elaborate, as it sounds like you described how the attack was functioning in Metroid Prime 2 rather than how it would be implemented in Smash.

 

[uptonogood]

But that's my issue, I don't think it would feel like an accurate portrayal as it wouldn't be able to get the sufficient power Samus's beam attacks (even the basic early game ones) have while still remaining balanced in Smash. For Smashes and for Special Attacks, sure, but for a neutral jab or a running forward tilt, no, it just wouldn't feel like Samus unless things are exploding when she hits them.



I'm more asking you to elaborate, as it sounds like you described how the attack was functioning in Metroid Prime 2 rather than how it would be implemented in Smash.

At the beginning of each Metroid game, the power beam does feel weak. That’s what the one in smash is meant to be based on is the power beam at its lowest form. Enemies never stagger or explode when getting hit by the power beam until they run out of health and the same is true for Mega Mans lemons so I don’t really understand how you think one works and the other doesn’t when there isn’t any real difference between the two other than the fact the power beam can eventually become stronger and the Mega Buster always does the same damage throughout the whole game.

The idea behind Dark Samus’ down special is just like how it was described. It’s basically identical Ness’ PSI Magnet but instead of healing, it absorbs projectiles and converts them into Phazon bullets that track opponents. I just thought it would be cool if you could float in midair with it like she does in Prime too just to make it feel a bit more special.

 

[Jotari]

At the beginning of each Metroid game, the power beam does feel weak. That’s what the one in smash is meant to be based on is the power beam at its lowest form. Enemies never stagger or explode when getting hit by the power beam until they run out of health and the same is true for Mega Mans lemons so I don’t really understand how you think one works and the other doesn’t when there isn’t any real difference between the two other than the fact the power beam can eventually become stronger and the Mega Buster always does the same damage throughout the whole game.

It doesn't though. Early game enemies still go down to one or two shots from the power beam. This is not the case in Mega Man as those games essentially don't have early game enemies due to the way the stage progression is designed. Levels just have a mix of weak and strong enemies.

 

[uptonogood]

It doesn't though. Early game enemies still go down to one or two shots from the power beam. This is not the case in Mega Man as those games essentially don't have early game enemies due to the way the stage progression is designed. Levels just have a mix of weak and strong enemies.

Good point. I personally am okay with altering the actual strength of the power beam for smash even if the damage output may not seem accurate. Just imagine if every smash character Samus is fighting is like a boss fight and it'll feel accurate then. I mean, how effective is the base power beam against Ridley in the actual Metroid games? Not very. So that's how it would feel in smash.

The alternative to add the power beam into her moveset would be to add it to the neutral special but you would lose the ability to free aim, crouch shoot, shoot directly into the air, and below in midair. You could still shoot while walking like how Min Min has a forward tilt for her special attack and even angle it.

 

[Jotari]

Okay. Here are my indepth changes I'd make to Samus.

First up her Forward Smash. Nothing particularly wrong with it now, but I love that new Melee counter and want to see it in the game. In fact, someone has already modded it in.

I don't want to see it as an actual counter though. We have enough of them. Instead it is a powerful arm canon bash. While there's no built in counter effect, it has very little ending lag allowing Samus to successfully combo it into other attacks (provided the knockback hasn't sent enemies flying) or bait enemies into attacking by whiffing it and then following up with something else. It also has great priority over other moves, a bit like Sonic's forward Smash.

Next up is her Down Smash where we have something I mentioned in the opening. A new item from Dread that just really works as a Down Smash for her in my mind.

The charging part of the Smash attack happens when Samus is in morph ball, meaning she is harder to hit when preparing for this move. And though the bombs hit in a fair distance, their area is quite precise.


Samus's up Smash is fine as it is, a stream of fire. Fun fact, one can consider this a reference to the Flame Thrower in Metroid Prime, but the attack actually predates Metroid Prime. Anyway, her up smash is fine, but I don't really like her up tilt. Samus did quite a few kicks in Other M, but an axe kick like that just doesn't strike me as Samus. Plus it's a clone move of Captain Falcon she's been holding on to for about 20 years now. So I think it's best to change it. So my version of her up tilt would be based on the wave beam. In visuals it would be similar to her up smash, Samus sweeps her arm canon in an arc upwards releasing a jet of purple electricity that trails behind in a sinewave pattern (this is too complex for me to make a gif out of, at least this late in the evening). This makes her up tilt and up Smash similar to Zelda's, both are arcing attacks travelling over Samus, with the Smash attack being a multi hit powerful attack, while the up tilt is a quicker attack that knocks enemies away.


Now onto her new down tilt. Functionally in a lot of ways this attack remains unchanged. It still deals quick, decent, vertical knockback. However it is now an ice attack that freezes at high %.

Samus can freze things, it's a pretty noteworthy trait of hers, yet it is absent entirely in Smash and this irks me to no end. It's only her main method of dealing with Metroid for crying out loud! So it's been added to her down tilt.

In addition to giving her an ice attack on her down tilt, I've given it to two more attacks. The first is her neutral aerial.

This attack is much weaker and the freeze function of it is almost non existent, only coming into play with enemies that have such high damage they should have been dead long ago. It's based on the Ice Shield, a secret attack for Samus in Super Metroid.

The last ice attack is one that is purely visual, her up throw. Currently her up throw involves tossing her enemies upwards and blasting them with her arm canon. This remains the same attack for the most part, only before tossing her enemy upwards, Samus freezes them, not the standard big iceberg freeze of Smash bros., but a different visual element that makes the enemy go entirely white. Right now Samus blasts the enemy from point blank range with her arm canon, but for my variation of the attack they will be thrown a bit higher and it will be clear that Samus is firing a Super Missile at them. This sequence is of course in reference to Samus's typical way of dealing with Metroids, by freezing them first and then blasting them with missiles.

Other M has an attack called Over Blast, which was also used as an animation in Samus Returns. Basically Samus jumps on top of an enemy and fires her into them. I think this could work well as Samus's down throw. Unlike regular throws, the amount of power this throw deals is increased if Samus has a fully charged charge shot. However it uses up the charge.

I also think her Dash Attack should be an obvious reference to the Speed Booster. This wouldn't be difficult to do, just put some after images of Samus behind her as she performs the attack. I made a gif of this too, but some how it turned into a video.

https://i.imgur.com/l8Pbqjo.mp4

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I was going to make her bicycle kick Melee counter from Dread an uptilt, but I actually think this would work perfectly as a getup attack.

For her special attacks, I'm in two minds about the Charge Blast. On one hand, it's kind of cool and it's been around in Smash forever. On the the other hand Samus's charge attacks looks nothing like that in any of her games. And functionally it could be altered without changing many of the hitboxes of the attack by having her shoot the Spazer/Wide beam. In either case I think being able to aim it like you can ROB's Robolaser would make the attack way more useful and authentic, though perhaps that would make it too useful.

No way to fit her slide in I just like her current dash attack and down tilt too much.

 

[uptonogood]

Okay. Here are my indepth changes I'd make to Samus.

First up her Forward Smash. Nothing particularly wrong with it now, but I love that new Melee counter and want to see it in the game. In fact, someone has already modded it in.

I don't want to see it as an actual counter though. We have enough of them. Instead it is a powerful arm canon bash. While there's no built in counter effect, it has very little ending lag allowing Samus to successfully combo it into other attacks (provided the knockback hasn't sent enemies flying) or bait enemies into attacking by whiffing it and then following up with something else.

Next up is her Down Smash where we have something I mentioned in the opening. A new item from Dread that just really works as a Down Smash for her in my mind.

The charging part of the Smash attack happens when Samus is in morph ball, meaning she is harder to hit when preparing for this move. And though the bombs hit in a fair distance, their area is quite precise.


Samus's up Smash is fine as it is, a stream of fire. Fun fact, one can consider this a reference to the Flame Thrower in Metroid Prime, but the attack actually predates Metroid Prime. Anyway, her up smash is fine, but I don't really like her up tilt. Samus did quite a few kicks in Other M, but an axe kick like that just doesn't strike me as Samus. Plus it's a clone move of Captain Falcon she's been holding on to for about 20 years now. So I think it's best to change it. So my version of her up tilt would be based on the wave beam. In visuals it would be similar to her up smash, Samus sweeps her arm canon in an arc upwards releasing a jet of purple electricity that trails behind in a sinewave pattern (this is too complex for me to make a gif out of, at least this late in the evening). This makes her up tilt and up Smash similar to Zelda's, both are arcing attacks travelling over Samus, with the Smash attack being a multi hit powerful attack, while the up tilt is a quicker attack that knocks enemies away.


Now onto her new down tilt. Functionally in a lot of ways this attack remains unchanged. It still deals quick, decent, vertical knockback. However it is now an ice attack that freezes at high %.

Samus can freze things, it's a pretty noteworthy trait of hers, yet it is absent entirely in Smash and this irks me to no end. It's only her main method of dealing with Metroid for crying out loud! So it's been added to her down tilt.

In addition to giving her an ice attack on her down tilt, I've given it to two more attacks. The first is her neutral aerial.

This attack is much weaker and the freeze function of it is almost non existent, only coming into play with enemies that have such high damage they should have been dead long ago. It's based on the Ice Shield, a secret attack for Samus in Super Metroid.

The last ice attack is one that is purely visual, her up throw. Currently her up throw involves tossing her enemies upwards and blasting them with her arm canon. This remains the same attack for the most part, only before tossing her enemy upwards, Samus freezes them, not the standard big iceberg freeze of Smash bros., but a different visual element that makes the enemy go entirely white. Right now Samus blasts the enemy from point blank range with her arm canon, but for my variation of the attack they will be thrown a bit higher and it will be clear that Samus is firing a Super Missile at them. This sequence is of course in reference to Samus's typical way of dealing with Metroids, by freezing them first and then blasting them with missiles.

Other M has an attack called Over Blast, which was also used as an animation in Samus Returns. Basically Samus jumps on top of an enemy and fires her into them. I think this could work well as Samus's down throw. Unlike regular throws, the amount of power this throw deals is increased if Samus has a fully charged charge shot. However it uses up the charge.
View attachment 334913

I also think her Dash Attack should be an obvious reference to the Speed Booster. This wouldn't be difficult to do, just put some after images of Samus behind her as she performs the attack. I made a gif of this too, but some how it turned into a video.

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I was going to make her bicycle kick Melee counter from Dread an uptilt, but I actually think this would work perfectly as a getup attack.

For her special attacks, I'm in two minds about the Charge Blast. On one hand, it's kind of cool and it's been around in Smash forever. On the the other hand Samus's charge attacks looks nothing like that in any of her games. And functionally it could be altered without change many of the hitboxes of the attack by having her shoot the Spazer/Wide beam. In either case I think being able to aim it like you can ROB's Robolaser would make the attack way more useful and authentic, though perhaps that would make it too useful.

No way to fit her slid in I just like her current dash attack and down tilt too much.

I love all of these ideas! How would you alter Samus' neutral attack and some of the other miscellaneous kicking attacks she has if you had the option to? I personally am not a fan of her neutral attack and I don't think anyone else is either. Like what if the melee counter was actually made into her neutral attack? That would make it a little easier to pull it off as opposed to it being mapped to her up tilt or up smash or something.

 

[Garo]

I might like to see Dash Melee and Melee Counter replace her current dash attack and up tilt respectively, seeing as those currently have pretty similar animations to Captain Falcon and Ganondorf's corresponding attacks. The slide I don't feel is necessary to include.

I do like your ideas, especially down smash, down tilt and get-up attack.

 

[Jotari]

I love all of these ideas! How would you alter Samus' neutral attack and some of the other miscellaneous kicking attacks she has if you had the option to? I personally am not a fan of her neutral attack and I don't think anyone else is either. Like what if the melee counter was actually made into her neutral attack? That would make it a little easier to pull it off as opposed to it being mapped to her up tilt or up smash or something.

I'm fine with her neutral attack on a visual level. In terms of gameplay it could be better, but that could be done by increasing it's power and or end frames. It's one of the very fer two hit jab combos in the game. Not sure if it'd be better to lean into that unique aspect of it, or to change it to a regular three hit combo like many other characters.

As for her kicks, I've removed her down smash, neutral aerial and up tilt already, so that's quite a lot of kicks removed. The kicks that remain are her forward tilt, up air and back air. Her forward tilt I'm completely fine with, I like that it can be angled and Samus does a lot of kicking like that in Other M if we're talking authenticity (though like her flame thrower, Samus's kicks in Smash predate Other M). Her up air and back air I wouldn't be quite as sold on, but I also don't feel they're incongruous enough to change them. It's not like there are any perfectly suited moves in her games that would slot right into them. I would like to have more than one wave bream attack (which I currently have as just her new up tilt) so maybe having a wave beam charged arm canon swing with her back air could work, the kick for her current back air is a bit awkward.

I might like to see Dash Melee and Melee Counter replace her current dash attack and up tilt respectively, seeing as those currently have pretty similar animations to Captain Falcon and Ganondorf's corresponding attacks. The slide I don't feel is necessary to include.

I do like your ideas, especially down smash, down tilt and get-up attack.

She outright has a Dash variant of the Melee Counter in dread, but ultimately I feel having it on one move ( I choose her Smash attack) is fine. Plus her Dash Attack already looks fine and even somewhat resembles how a shine spark is used. If anyone between Ganondorf, Captain Falcon and Samus should have their Dash Attack retrained, it's Samus (that being said I chose to keep Ganondorf's dash attack the same on the revamp of his moveset I posted too).

 

[Planet-Neptune]

Not a Samus main, but I'm just popping in to say that her Samus Returns/Dread strike should totally be implemented. If the future Smash team doesn't want to go with the full moveset rework (which they should do, it currently doesn't fit her well in my opinion), they should at least try to replace her jab or F-Tilt with it to spice up her kit more.

 

[uptonogood]

I've made some changes to my Samus moveset if anyone is interested in checking it out:https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17GkyxbVDqYrjBDo28Mqj38MeZtAqoCWaLE8Q7oBqvLY/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Jotari]

I've made some changes to my Samus moveset if anyone is interested in checking it out:https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17GkyxbVDqYrjBDo28Mqj38MeZtAqoCWaLE8Q7oBqvLY/edit?usp=sharing

I like this one much better. Have the power beam just be on the special makes the smashes changing it feel, well, special, rather than a convoluted change to the normal moveset. You seem overly attached to the run and gun idea. I don't think replacing the homing missiles with the neutral special only you can move is particularly useful. Not when you could just short hop into neutral special to gain forward momentum with it.

I'm also not sure how the dash attack works. How can you press the attack button again during a dash attack? Does she perform the shoulder bash and then the Melee strike immediately afterwards like Link's forward Smash? It'd be weird and creative for a Dash attack to work like Link's smash attack, but at the same time, it sort of feels like having it in for the sake of having it in than really making the dash more useful. Especially when the melee counter is already there as the uptilt. Under what circumstances would the second hit of a dash attack be useful? Only if you mistime the regular dash attack and initiate the attack to early, but a good player just won't do that.

Bicycle kick as the up air works well, but it also kind of makes her more of a clone of Captain Falcon and Ganondorf (not that I personally have a problem with this, as I said earlier I didn't even change that Ganondorf shares a dash with Samus and Falcon in my redesign of him, it just might be an unforseen consequence of giving her an attack like that).

Would the five drop charge bomb be useful? Again I get that it's a reference to Super Metroid, but bombs are used more as spacing tools than anything else. I just don't imagine dropping five of them would be worth giving up a charge shot, which is a very useful move as is. If I were playing Samus this would just encourage me to never use bombs, as I'd rather have the charge shot ready, and if given the opportunity, I'd always like to have a charge shot charged up. Why in general did you remove your old morph ball down special you had in your last moveset?

 

[uptonogood]

I like this one much better. Have the power beam just be on the special makes the smashes changing it feel, well, special, rather than a convoluted change to the normal moveset. You seem overly attached to the run and gun idea. I don't think replacing the homing missiles with the neutral special only you can move is particularly useful. Not when you could just short hop into neutral special to gain forward momentum with it.

I'm also not sure how the dash attack works. How can you press the attack button again during a dash attack? Does she perform the shoulder bash and then the Melee strike immediately afterwards like Link's forward Smash? It'd be weird and creative for a Dash attack to work like Link's smash attack, but at the same time, it sort of feels like having it in for the sake of having it in than really making the dash more useful. Especially when the melee counter is already there as the uptilt. Under what circumstances would the second hit of a dash attack be useful? Only if you mistime the regular dash attack and initiate the attack to early, but a good player just won't do that.

Bicycle kick as the up air works well, but it also kind of makes her more of a clone of Captain Falcon and Ganondorf (not that I personally have a problem with this, as I said earlier I didn't even change that Ganondorf shares a dash with Samus and Falcon in my redesign of him, it just might be an unforseen consequence of giving her an attack like that).

Would the five drop charge bomb be useful? Again I get that it's a reference to Super Metroid, but bombs are used more as spacing tools than anything else. I just don't imagine dropping five of them would be worth giving up a charge shot, which is a very useful move as is. If I were playing Samus this would just encourage me to never use bombs, as I'd rather have the charge shot ready, and if given the opportunity, I'd always like to have a charge shot charged up. Why in general did you remove your old morph ball down special you had in your last moveset?

The reason I flat out removed the Morph Ball is because as cool as it was in theory, it’s not a very viable method of attack. The Morph Ball is meant for traversing terrain, not combat. It just felt like there wouldn’t ever be a situation where someone would willingly give up the ability to do other attacks for the Morph Ball but maybe I’m wrong and it would actually be an amazing tool in some unforeseen way. The 5 bomb drop I just thought would be neat, same with the dash melee. The dash melee would pretty much just be a second half of the attack that comes out kind of like the second hit of a jab combo, it makes perfect sense to me. As for the walking and shooting, it’s a key part of samus’ design to be able to walk and shoot, to not include it would be a disservice and the homing missiles aren’t really as important as the super missiles. I was hesitant to do it, but I think it’s a necessary change personally.

 

[uptonogood]

I made a separate moveset specifically for Samus' appearance in Metroid Dread. It has some differences from the revamped moveset I posted prior but is largely similar.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1RDlfGvpDMkV7JIoh5-MAsb92tkV4SQyYn3ouzTWlenY/edit?usp=sharing

 

[True Blue Warrior]

No matter what, I would like to see the ability to Morph Ball crawl in the next title.

 

[Jotari]

No matter what, I would like to see the ability to Morph Ball crawl in the next title.

I feel like that would actually be a hard thing to do. Make it too fast and suddenly you're whizzing around the stage as a small to hit target and Samus becomes and even more annoying troll character than Sonic. Make it slow like a regular crawl and it just wouldn't feel satisfying as a movement option at all.

 

[FazDude]

I would make the Morph Ball crawl part of Down Special - You can roll around to reposition yourself before planting the bomb, but you're still suspectible to gravity and are limited in what you can do until you're hit or place the bomb down. Still gives it utility while avoiding making it too centralizing.

 

[Veca Gorebyss]

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maybe equipping her with a net?

does that exist in the series?





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