• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

New Ledgegrabbing Mechanic Confirmed

Big-Cat

Challenge accepted.
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
16,176
Location
Lousiana
NNID
KumaOso
3DS FC
1590-4853-0104
Firt off, Ledge Priority is ambiguous. Second, we don't need a name for everything.

Do we need to call where you jump forward and then jump back Zigzag Jumping? It describes what's happening, but it's totally stupid to make it a term.
 

Hong

The Strongest
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
23,550
Firt off, Ledge Priority is ambiguous. Second, we don't need a name for everything.

Do we need to call where you jump forward and then jump back Zigzag Jumping? It describes what's happening, but it's totally stupid to make it a term.
Reminds me of the early days of Brawl, where everyone wanted to make stupid names for everything ever for no reason at all what-so-ever. Likely because people were eager to find new advanced techniques and be heroes. The majority of terms that have stuck to this day are still ridiculous and unnecessary.
 

Starcutter

Resident Beedrill
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
7,221
Location
Viridian Forest
NNID
Legendofrob1
3DS FC
1908-0357-9077
I'm going to just call it the edge shove, even if there's a "better" name for it. because that's what's happening, someone's shoving someone else off the edge to use it for themselves.


but whatever.
 

Ove

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 17, 2011
Messages
450
Location
Sweden
I agree with most of you: this is an interesting update.

What I am wondering is what happens to the person that initially had the ledge after someone has shoved him or her off.

In the picture, it looks like Mario leaps a little bit above Link after the ledge has been taken away from him. How long recovery time will Mario have before he can do anything? What is his options? Can he just Uair Link immediately if Link doesn't have a long invincibility?

Maybe he can choose to recover directly to the stage (and be punished) or time his recovery so that he can reclaim the ledge. Most likely, one can use the double jump to easily come back. That would also mean that none of both characters is in an obvious advantage after someone has taken the ledge from the other by means of this new mechanic.
 

lordvaati

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
3,148
Location
Seattle, WA
Switch FC
SW-4918-2392-4599
Damn, now I kinda wish the Mario vs. Mega man fight showed this so we could study it more.
 

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
21,229
Location
The States
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
I wonder if this revamped mechanic will have any effect on character's recovery attacks. I mean will some of them be buffed in order to correlate with the change? Perhaps some will be nerfed too. And if it doesn't, does that mean we'll have to simply focus landing on the stage itself and not the ledge? I'm sure it's safe to say that this will make Smash 4 more interesting, for better or worse.
 

DaDavid

Just Another Sword User
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
2,206
Location
Probably at work.
NNID
DaDavidEffect
Switch FC
SW-7381-1262-2246
I agree with most of you: this is an interesting update.

What I am wondering is what happens to the person that initially had the ledge after someone has shoved him or her off.

In the picture, it looks like Mario leaps a little bit above Link after the ledge has been taken away from him. How long recovery time will Mario have before he can do anything? What is his options? Can he just Uair Link immediately if Link doesn't have a long invincibility?

Maybe he can choose to recover directly to the stage (and be punished) or time his recovery so that he can reclaim the ledge. Most likely, one can use the double jump to easily come back. That would also mean that none of both characters is in an obvious advantage after someone has taken the ledge from the other by means of this new mechanic.
Yes this is a very interesting aspect of the change to me to. It doesn't seem that either player has an advantage over in the other if the player that was bumped has at least the second jump and recovery special available. Worst case scenario here in my opinion is that the bumped player goes into helpless, but something tells me that's not the case.
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
I can see it now... someone recovers, you want to counter their invincibility with yours, so you need air time. So while they are recovering (ideally, you'd have a lot of jumps, or something that stalls you in the air) you *jump*.... *jump*.... *jump* .... *juuuuump*.... and clip to the edge just before they do in an effort to have a comparable air time. I call it stall hogging. Ha ha ha.
Even if that were viable, it'd only work once, and it's not even likely to work because the opponent has momentum from whatever hit you did plus all their jumps (or not, if they didn't have many left).
Either way, I'm pretty hyped for the new ledge mechanic!
This one post made me realise just how much this mechanic buffs Kirby. Playing Kirby right, your air time will never be much lower than your opponent and often it'll be much higher. It is therefore safe to say that he will almost always out prioritise when recovering and likely hog like no other either (send the foe off with an aerial and you can viably outprioritise their recovery). From the ledge shunt, Kirby can then drop and have full air mobility back, meaning that unless the opponent regains control near instantly he can cuttercide or worse.

I'm probably being overoptimistic here but the little pink guy does seem like he'd benefit greatly.
 

Muster

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
1,351
Location
Kansas
NNID
Muster
3DS FC
3454-0690-6658
This one post made me realise just how much this mechanic buffs Kirby. Playing Kirby right, your air time will never be much lower than your opponent and often it'll be much higher. It is therefore safe to say that he will almost always out prioritise when recovering and likely hog like no other either (send the foe off with an aerial and you can viably outprioritise their recovery). From the ledge shunt, Kirby can then drop and have full air mobility back, meaning that unless the opponent regains control near instantly he can cuttercide or worse.

I'm probably being overoptimistic here but the little pink guy does seem like he'd benefit greatly.
It Buffs his edge guarding/gimping game but nerfs his planking game. I'd say the buff is much better than the nerf, however. Kirby4toptier
 

-Fatality-

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 12, 2010
Messages
358
Location
Lilburn, GA
NNID
FatalityFalcon
3DS FC
3695-0049-3723
This sounds interesting to say the least, though since details remain vague, I'll refrain from having a detailed opinion of it, we still haven't played with it yet after all. As long as this change creates dynamic gameplay, I'm happy with it.
 

Jerm

U Feelin' It?
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
687
Location
Canada
NNID
Jermalie0
3DS FC
4940-5666-9945
Ooooo man, Olimar is about to **** on everyones life!! Olimar was a high tier last game, only being held back by an easily gimpable recovery but this mechanic may very well change all of that. Olimar for S tier perhaps..
 

mimgrim

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
9,233
Location
Somewhere magical
Ooooo man, Olimar is about to **** on everyones life!! Olimar was a high tier last game, only being held back by an easily gimpable recovery but this mechanic may very well change all of that. Olimar for S tier perhaps..
He's considered 3rd best character in the game. He isn't held back at all. MK is just flat out better then the rest of the cast in Brawl and ICs have an infinite CG on the whole cast.

Besides we don't know if this mechanic works for tether recoveries or if it has certain limitations.

People jumping to soon to conclusion. >_>
 

DraginHikari

Emerald Star Legacy
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
2,821
Location
Omaha, NE
NNID
Draginhikari
3DS FC
4940-5455-2427
Switch FC
SW-7120-1891-0342
He's considered 3rd best character in the game. He isn't held back at all. MK is just flat out better then the rest of the cast in Brawl and ICs have an infinite CG on the whole cast.

Besides we don't know if this mechanic works for tether recoveries or if it has certain limitations.

People jumping to soon to conclusion. >_>
That's pretty par for the course in this place.
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
It Buffs his edge guarding/gimping game but nerfs his planking game. I'd say the buff is much better than the nerf, however. Kirby4toptier
I don't think I've seen a Kirby ledge plank in any of the singles videos I've watched and only briefly as part of a swallowcide tactic in doubles. I'll admit I planked against Giga Bowser and friends but, against anyone with normal physics, I'd never even consider it. A buff to his edge game is far more important than a reduction in any potential stalling tactic.
 

Jerm

U Feelin' It?
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
687
Location
Canada
NNID
Jermalie0
3DS FC
4940-5666-9945
He's considered 3rd best character in the game. He isn't held back at all. MK is just flat out better then the rest of the cast in Brawl and ICs have an infinite CG on the whole cast.

Besides we don't know if this mechanic works for tether recoveries or if it has certain limitations.

People jumping to soon to conclusion. >_>
I dunno if you just read exactly what it says and relate it to the picture provided it looks like Link over prioritized Mario's ledge grab to grab for himself. I do not see how it would/ could not work for tethers as well. If it does work in the manner that many presume it does then a lot of characters with garb recovery like Link, Ganon, or other characters with tether capabilities will benefit greatly.
 

mimgrim

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
9,233
Location
Somewhere magical
I dunno if you just read exactly what it says and relate it to the picture provided it looks like Link over prioritized Mario's ledge grab to grab for himself. I do not see how it would/ could not work for tethers as well. If it does work in the manner that many presume it does then a lot of characters with garb recovery like Link, Ganon, or other characters with tether capabilities will benefit greatly.
> Ganon

> Grab Recovery

Wut.

Also just because Link is grabbing the ledge doesn't mean it was done via tether, he doesn't have to use his chain to grab the ledge.

Your just jumping to too many conclusions.
 

Muster

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
1,351
Location
Kansas
NNID
Muster
3DS FC
3454-0690-6658
I don't think I've seen a Kirby ledge plank in any of the singles videos I've watched and only briefly as part of a swallowcide tactic in doubles. I'll admit I planked against Giga Bowser and friends but, against anyone with normal physics, I'd never even consider it. A buff to his edge game is far more important than a reduction in any potential stalling tactic.
Yeah, that's what i said. The buff that he gets from the new ledge physics far outweighs the planking game that he used to have (which was basically a nerfed meta knight planking game). It seems that bright days are coming for our little puffball
 

Jerm

U Feelin' It?
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
687
Location
Canada
NNID
Jermalie0
3DS FC
4940-5666-9945
> Ganon

> Grab Recovery

Wut.

Also just because Link is grabbing the ledge doesn't mean it was done via tether, he doesn't have to use his chain to grab the ledge.

Your just jumping to too many conclusions.
Not "grab recovery", garb recovery as in garbage. I didn't say anything about link using his tether to grab the ledge in the picture :S
 

DaDavid

Just Another Sword User
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
2,206
Location
Probably at work.
NNID
DaDavidEffect
Switch FC
SW-7381-1262-2246
I'll admit it's technically an assumption to say that this trumping mechanic will work on tethers, but honestly there's nothing to suggest it won't so it I think it's the safer of two assumptions.
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
What would you want instead, and please don't tell me the burning attack :facepalm:
Fireball was actually a decent attack in the PAL version. It traded with sword slashes (both players damaged) and ploughed through projectile spamming.
But I'm not really that fussed what Yoyo Spin's replacement is. I quite liked Breakstand too. It was short and sweet.
That's what I'd be going for. Something fast or cancellable with an exciting or comical look to fit in with the character's Smash representation.

Breakstand did the comical side, with an almost clumsy use of his dashing momentum taking him into a handstand. Fireball did the exciting visual effect, fitting in well with the likes of his Stone transformation and Final Cutter's projectile.

Yoyo Spin, IMO atleast, had neither the clumsy/childish aspect nor anything to set it apart from something any other character might do. I get that it's a traditional Kirby move but there are so many better ones in his games. Furthermore, from a gameplay perspective, it required a lot of commitment. It was long and had no way out nor any way to control it after it started.
If I wanted a slow, multi hit, spinning move, Kirby's F-air was vastly superior anyway. More knockback, more damage per hit, less time wasted if it didn't connect and, best of all, mobility.

I'm sorry but I really do not like that move and would prefer just about anything to it.
 

Niko Mar

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
1,347
Fireball was actually a decent attack in the PAL version. It traded with sword slashes (both players damaged) and ploughed through projectile spamming.
But I'm not really that fussed what Yoyo Spin's replacement is. I quite liked Breakstand too. It was short and sweet.
That's what I'd be going for. Something fast or cancellable with an exciting or comical look to fit in with the character's Smash representation.

Breakstand did the comical side, with an almost clumsy use of his dashing momentum taking him into a handstand. Fireball did the exciting visual effect, fitting in well with the likes of his Stone transformation and Final Cutter's projectile.

Yoyo Spin, IMO atleast, had neither the clumsy/childish aspect nor anything to set it apart from something any other character might do. I get that it's a traditional Kirby move but there are so many better ones in his games. Furthermore, from a gameplay perspective, it required a lot of commitment. It was long and had no way out nor any way to control it after it started.
If I wanted a slow, multi hit, spinning move, Kirby's F-air was vastly superior anyway. More knockback, more damage per hit, less time wasted if it didn't connect and, best of all, mobility.

I'm sorry but I really do not like that move and would prefer just about anything to it.
Ummmmm, ok.

IMO the yoyo spin is very good. It's length and number of hits work in my favor most of the time, I don't know how you're using it.

In fact it feels just as long as the fireball, except with multiple hits
 

XStarWarriorX

[Get Ready]
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
5,959
Location
Eternity
Fireball was actually a decent attack in the PAL version. It traded with sword slashes (both players damaged) and ploughed through projectile spamming.
But I'm not really that fussed what Yoyo Spin's replacement is. I quite liked Breakstand too. It was short and sweet.
That's what I'd be going for. Something fast or cancellable with an exciting or comical look to fit in with the character's Smash representation.

Breakstand did the comical side, with an almost clumsy use of his dashing momentum taking him into a handstand. Fireball did the exciting visual effect, fitting in well with the likes of his Stone transformation and Final Cutter's projectile.

Yoyo Spin, IMO atleast, had neither the clumsy/childish aspect nor anything to set it apart from something any other character might do. I get that it's a traditional Kirby move but there are so many better ones in his games. Furthermore, from a gameplay perspective, it required a lot of commitment. It was long and had no way out nor any way to control it after it started.
If I wanted a slow, multi hit, spinning move, Kirby's F-air was vastly superior anyway. More knockback, more damage per hit, less time wasted if it didn't connect and, best of all, mobility.

I'm sorry but I really do not like that move and would prefer just about anything to it.
Fire ball attack in melee was a joke, do you really want that back? I don't, unless its modified to be actually useful, i'd say the spin is fine. Sakurai could just make the attack faster, since the spin is actually pretty quick in the kirby games.

I don't want a burning dash because:

1. If you trade with a move, you ALWAYS lose the trade.
2. It leaves you wide open.
3. It has bad knockback and little damage.
4. all someone has to do is CC and punish.


I'd say a modified version of the spin is fine. once your caught up in that dash attack, your going to probably receive all the hitboxes. unlike the fireball which does not. And I don't see sakurai taking a page out of PM so..... a modified spin is what is going to be given to kirby.

Also im glad that this news bodes well for kirby, can't wait for this game.
 

DaDavid

Just Another Sword User
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
2,206
Location
Probably at work.
NNID
DaDavidEffect
Switch FC
SW-7381-1262-2246
Could someone please explain what this means? I have no clue.
I'm not the best at this talking thing, but the comment and picture pretty much suggest that edge-hogging (dropping off the stage to occupy the ledge and keep the other player from recovering) has received a bit of a nerf because players can now trump each others edge grab. That's the big thing that this means anyway.
 

dimensionsword64

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
2,495
3DS FC
3609-1605-6649
I'm not the best at this talking thing, but the comment and picture pretty much suggest that edge-hogging (dropping off the stage to occupy the ledge and keep the other player from recovering) has received a bit of a nerf because players can now trump each others edge grab. That's the big thing that this means anyway.
Okay, thanks. :)
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
Location
Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
Also, Kirby already has the spin
That was what prompted my original comment. Had it not been in the video, I would have assumed the "new dash attack each game" precedent would continue.

I don't want a burning dash because:
1. If you trade with a move, you ALWAYS lose the trade.
2. It leaves you wide open.
3. It has bad knockback and little damage.
4. all someone has to do is CC and punish.
Not sure what you mean on number 1 but its damage and knockback were both boosted in the PAL version and, IIRC, this somehow made the move less CCable. It is possible it does leave you open at the end but, if you use the move right, that should never be an issue. It carries on going through projectiles, shields and any non-reflective attack. To the best of my knowledge, the only move that can safely hit Kirby through it is Mario's Cape.
It can be annoying and quick when unexpected, it can hit a laser spamming Fox without a need to dodge and play into his hands and it can trade damage with sword users in situations Kirby otherwise cannot.
In the last situation, you get downed and they get launched, meaning you can put pressure on before they can get back to a comfortable position.
Versus Marth, Fireball was a godsend and against those who aren't used to seeing it, it can juggle obnoxiously. There are matchups where it's bad and there are situations where it's terrible but, in the PAL version atleast, it had its uses.
 
Last edited:

mimgrim

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
9,233
Location
Somewhere magical
Could someone please explain what this means? I have no clue.
Characters are now able to grab the ledge while another character is grabbing. However we don't know the limitations of the mechanic, like if it works on tethers or not or other stuff.

Apparently the amount you spent in the air and the damage percent you have accumulated will affect how long you are invincible for when you grab the ledge. But we don't know if lower are higher damage makes it longer or shorter or how longer or shorter air time will affect it.

You know how characters had a quick attack when the had below 100% while on the ledge and a slow attack while over 100% on the ledge? Well stuff like that is now gone presumably.

Basically it's probably going to be a big going to be a change to how the ledge game. But whether it is for good or bad, we just don't know because we don't know all the smaller details about it.

Not "grab recovery", garb recovery as in garbage. I didn't say anything about link using his tether to grab the ledge in the picture :S
Why do people always harp on Ganon's recovery, it actually isn't the bad. It actually pretty good far a vertical recovery and has a trolo factor to it. It's everything else that makes him horrible in Brawl xD.

And I mis-read what you said about Link, I'll admit that. But is still far to early to assume that tether recoveries will work because the have different properties then just regularly grabbing the edge. The are just to many unknowns with this mechanic to make any definitive statement.
 

DaDavid

Just Another Sword User
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
2,206
Location
Probably at work.
NNID
DaDavidEffect
Switch FC
SW-7381-1262-2246
That was what prompted my original comment. Had it not been in the video, I would have assumed the "new dash attack each game" precedent would continue.



Not sure what you mean on number 1 but its damage and knockback were both boosted in the PAL version and, IIRC, this somehow made the move less CCable. It is possible it does leave you open at the end but, if you use the move right, that should never be an issue. It carries on going through projectiles, shields and any non-reflective attack. To the best of my knowledge, the only move that can safely hit Kirby through it is Mario's Cape.
It can be annoying and quick when unexpected, it can hit a laser spamming Fox without a need to dodge and play into his hands and it can trade damage with sword users in situations Kirby otherwise cannot.
In the last situation, you get downed and they get launched, meaning you can put pressure on before they can get back to a comfortable position.
Versus Marth, Fireball was a godsend and against those who aren't used to seeing it, it can juggle obnoxiously. There are matchups where it's bad and there are situations where it's terrible but, in the PAL version atleast, it had its uses.
There's also the possibility that... you know. IF they brought Fireball back it wouldn't have to have the same properties it used to?
 
Top Bottom