Congratulations, Min Min! ARMS character(s) for Smash discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

Ah, forgot about Lil' Judd, and you are correct about USUM's represenation. But I think those two are the same cases as Mario Odyssey's representation in Smash - really basic touches. Mario gets to be an exception with the New Donk City stage and the Wedding Outfit alongside the Cappy visual, but that's because Mario is Mario. I think there needs to be emphasis ARMS ' level of popularity. It is unike Splatoon, much less Pokemon and Mario, both having precedent for getting new stuff in the game anyways despite the time frame. So I don't think it'fair to compare chances with big franchises.

Not exactly what my point was, I'll make myself clear.

My fear is that ARMS was old enough to be included but not established enough for a character, ergo Spring Man is put in as an Assist.
But maybe my fear is unfounded. Who was the most recently released character to get the assist treatment in Smash? Gen 6 Pokemon maybe?

 

[GM_3826]

Not exactly what my point was, I'll make myself clear.

My fear is that ARMS was old enough to be included but not established enough for a character, ergo Spring Man is put in as an Assist.
But maybe my fear is unfounded. Who was the most recently released character to get the assist treatment in Smash? Gen 6 Pokemon maybe?

Greninja, but then again Sakurai said that Super Smash Bros. was late enough in development by the time Pokemon X and Y was released that Greninja was something of a last minute inclusion, based solely on his concept art. ARMS came out a year before Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, like how Pokemon X and Y came out a year before Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and Nintendo 3DS. That's not very reassuring when it comes to an ARMS character's chances. Still, maybe we'll see Spring Man as DLC.

 

[Game And Guy]

Ah, either way I think the what I said is valid.

Replying to that though, it actually relates to what I said. ARMS was an unknown variable, and now that it's known, it turns out to be not the next Splatoon like some assumed. The problem with ARMS is that its position is unique, in that, as you said, it isn't established. Nothing like that has happened so far, which plays into why I think they're not as likely as people think they are. ARMS will definitely get a trophy, like Splatoon did, but considering, again, that Splatoon was highly popular and did not get DLC outside of those ugly costumes, ARMS seems less likely even more.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

ARMS will definitely get a trophy, like Splatoon did, but considering, again, that Splatoon was highly popular and did not get DLC outside of those ugly costumes, ARMS seems less likely even more.

You make some good points but I will add three more variables on to that which may help ARMS, at least in the DLC stage.

1. Nintendo has no veterans left to port over for 1st party DLC.
2. Corrin got added as DLC while his game was just out/still being translated
3. Unlike last time, there's no new console hovering over everything. (I'm of the mind Sakurai knew the NX was coming and wanted the Inklings to have a full Dev cycle to work out.)

Best case, bunch of Trophies Wonderful101 style and then the Nintendo Direct after launch...

 

[Game And Guy]

Possibly, but I still think Splatoon is actually the biggest example for why ARMS has slimmer chances. The lack of a rep even DLC, as well as the lack of Splat 2 outside of Lil' Judd in Ultimate, really shows how release dates affect how everything works.

I actually also mentioned Corrin earlier for being the best example to support ARMS, but Corrin also comes from an established franchise that has boomed in international popularity, and was specifically a character picked because it was new. I'm still bitter that it wasn't Rhythm Heaven considering Megamix fits the timeframe.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Possibly, but I still think Splatoon is actually the biggest example for why ARMS has slimmer chances. The lack of a rep even DLC, as well as the lack of Splat 2 outside of Lil' Judd in Ultimate, really shows how release dates affect how everything works.

I actually also mentioned Corrin earlier for being the best example to support ARMS, but Corrin also comes from an established franchise that has boomed in international popularity, and was specifically a character picked because it was new. I'm still bitter that it wasn't Rhythm Heaven considering Megamix fits the timeframe.

I can't understand why you keep coming back to "Splatoon means no ARMS". What's the point you're trying to make with that part? Shooter games sell better than fighting games, that's just a fact of VG life.

Edit: Post 10,000?! I wasn't expecting that, holy moly!

 

[Game And Guy]

Because it shows how release dates and popularity play into the process? That's been my point the entire and not once have I diverted regarding it. And using it as an example (note, I keep saying the word example) is only compounded by its newness, making it very comparable to ARMS. It gives us an idea what goes through that process.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Spring Man should be in with Ribbon Girl as an Echo. And that would be the only newcomer I want with an Echo. Min Min could be an Assist Trophy. Spring Stadium would be the ideal stage. The other ARMS characters should be in the Trophy Gallery. Music tracks for "Grand Prix," "Spring Stadium," "Ribbon Ring," and all the stages from ARMS should be the music heard in Spring Stadium.

 

[Takasmash]

If we get a Arms character I hope Sakurai picks the Ribbon Ring. And Im down with a Arms character because I love Arms the reasons why I didn't put a Arms character on my Top 10 list. Im for sure there will be Arms character will playable in the base roster or DLC it will be dumb if they aint playable I know Arms didn't do good like Splatoon but I think adding Arms in smash ultimate will help a little and Nintendo is keeping Arms alive even people thinks Arms is dead unless we get a sequel three years later. Oh was there a Arms item in the smash direct I wonder what the means?

 

[Sean Wheeler]

And besides, Earthbound flopped before Ness in Super Smash Bros got people interested. Marth and Roy's inclusion in Melee is why Fire Emblem has gone global when it was initially Japan exclusive. Super Smash Bros helps boost popularity in franchises, so even if ARMS isn't that big, they gotta raise some interest by pitting an ARMS fighter against the likes of Mario, Pikachu and Sonic.

 

[Takasmash]

And besides, Earthbound flopped before Ness in Super Smash Bros got people interested. Marth and Roy's inclusion in Melee is why Fire Emblem has gone global when it was initially Japan exclusive. Super Smash Bros helps boost popularity in franchises, so even if ARMS isn't that big, they gotta raise some interest by pitting an ARMS fighter against the likes of Mario, Pikachu and Sonic.

Good point sense it will be criminal if a Arms character is not in smash ultimate smash will have Arms popularity.

 

[Galgatha]

If we do actually get an ARMS character....my vote is on Twintelle.

Why? Personality, and I like her look

 

[Game And Guy]

Honestly I'd rather have Coyle but that's just me.

 

[_Sheik]

Reminder that we most likely haven't seen all the new content in Ultimate; and Yoshi's Wooly World had a stage in Smash 4 even before that game released anywhere, so I'm sure Sakurai isn't opposed to creating content that wasn't initially planned before or during the game's development.

 

[Staarih]

So this tweet of a translation of Sakurai's column has been circling around:

The project plan was finished in December 2015, when DLC for the previous game was still being developed. Gathering staff together for the new Smash was done later. pic.twitter.com/w1JyrtlKo7

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 20, 2018

If the initial line up was indeed decided in December 2015, ARMS would have definitely missed that. If nothing changes during development, looks like DLC is our best bet.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So this tweet of a translation of Sakurai's column has been circling around:

The project plan was finished in December 2015, when DLC for the previous game was still being developed. Gathering staff together for the new Smash was done later. pic.twitter.com/w1JyrtlKo7

— Source Gaming (@AllSourceGaming) June 20, 2018

If the initial line up was decided in December 2015, ARMS would have definitely missed that. If nothing changed during development, looks like DLC is our best bet.

Well looks like a few trophies and maybe some music is out best bet for the base game.

On that note, which tunes do you want?

 

[Game And Guy]

Reminder that we most likely haven't seen all the new content in Ultimate; and Yoshi's Wooly World had a stage in Smash 4 even before that game released anywhere, so I'm sure Sakurai isn't opposed to creating content that wasn't initially planned before or during the game's development.

I mentioned this, but Woolly World was originally a Kirby's Epic Yarn stage, alongside the fact that Woolly World was in development during Smash 4.

 

[staindgrey]

Ah, forgot about Lil' Judd, and you are correct about USUM's represenation. But I think those two are the same cases as Mario Odyssey's representation in Smash - really basic touches. Mario gets to be an exception with the New Donk City stage and the Wedding Outfit alongside the Cappy visual, but that's because Mario is Mario. I think there needs to be emphasis ARMS ' level of popularity. It is unike Splatoon, much less Pokemon and Mario, both having precedent for getting new stuff in the game anyways despite the time frame. So I don't think it'fair to compare chances with big franchises.

The thing we have to remember here, I think, is that ARMS was developed in-house. Meaning that even though it was released only a year ago, if Nintendo wanted their only unique fighting game represented in their only other fighting game, they could have given Sakurai access to concept art and general game mechanics as long as three years ago.

I admit that I don't know much about the development schedule for ARMS, but if Nintendo was certain it was going to be a hit, they could have given Sakurai everything he needed and requested that a character make it in. At the same time, if they weren't so sure, it's possible they never did, and the game took shape too late into Smash's development cycle.

Unfortunately, if they didn't decide awhile ago that ARMS should be in, it was probably released too long ago to be planned as DLC. Again, Nintendo marketed it pretty hard, and they have a graphic novel being released for it in the fall. But it ultimately comes down to how confident they were before release that an ARMS character should be included.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Plans do change a lot in development. Nothing is really final until release. Brawl was delayed because Sonic was added late in development. Toon Link and Wolf were also added late in development with Jigglypuff cut for a while before getting back in. Previous Smash games had planned newcomers that were cut from the final game such as James Bond in Melee. Yes, James Bond from Rare's adaptation of Goldeneye was in the initial plans for Melee before being denied permission from MGM and the actor Pierce Brosnan. Whatever the roster is in those plans, it's a rough draft, not the roster we'd get in the final game. It's possible that newcomers like Daisy and Ridley weren't in those plans from December 2015. And it's possible that that list could have newcomers that ended up getting cut in development. So it's very likely that we could have an ARMS fighter in the game.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yep I hate to tell you guys this but from that I think your chances for base roster is toast but dlc perhaps

And probably highest voted for ballot characters are the base roster newcomers

Ridley was a loop hole because sakurai already knew he Was the western/USA most wanted newcomer

 

[staindgrey]

Well looks like a few trophies and maybe some music is out best bet for the base game.

On that note, which tunes do you want?

Easily the main theme.

If we got a stage, the ramen bowl stage would be my definitive favorite.

 

[Nintendotard]

Spring Man is the definite choice. I have a good feel we could still see them in the base game.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Yep I hate to tell you guys this but from that I think your chances for base roster is toast but dlc perhaps

And probably highest voted for ballot characters are the base roster newcomers

Ridley was a loop hole because sakurai already knew he Was the western/USA most wanted newcomer

Don't say anyone has no chance while the infamous "too big" Ridley is in your comment. Ridley is one of those characters that prove that anyone can be in Smash. And they had a whole year to develop an ARMS character, so they could have the ARMS character one of the last newcomers to make it into the base game. The 2015 statement doesn't hold much when plans constantly change during development.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I think I've grown quite attached to Ribbon Girl's stage theme; I'd like to see it in Smash the most.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

While I think Spring Man would be amazing, I think he missed the boat this time.

That said, I think ARMS characters are a matter of when and not if.

Let's hope he's DLC!

 

[Sean Wheeler]

While you guys expecting Spring Man to be DLC, I think it's possible he can be revealed as the fourth newcomer after Inkling, Daisy and Ridley in the next Nintendo Direct.

 

[MysticKnives]

While you guys expecting Spring Man to be DLC, I think it's possible he can be revealed as the fourth newcomer after Inkling, Daisy and Ridley in the next Nintendo Direct.

Whether base or DLC, I'm expecting Spring Man at some point.

 

[DonkaFjord]

I think I've grown quite attached to Ribbon Girl's stage theme; I'd like to see it in Smash the most.

Honestly if we don't get any other content from ARMS, please let us at least get some music.

 

[Koopaul]

Listening to some of you talk about ARMS you make it sound like it flopped. It did rather well.

 

[Koopaul]

Listening to some of you talk about ARMS you make it sound like it flopped. It did rather well.

 

[SmashChu]

Before I go on, I want to note that the Source Gaming tweet misquotes the translation. It was the first project proposal, not the project plan. Both SG's and Nintendo Everything's translation say "first proposal."

Plans do change a lot in development. Nothing is really final until release. Brawl was delayed because Sonic was added late in development. Toon Link and Wolf were also added late in development with Jigglypuff cut for a while before getting back in. Previous Smash games had planned newcomers that were cut from the final game such as James Bond in Melee. Yes, James Bond from Rare's adaptation of Goldeneye was in the initial plans for Melee before being denied permission from MGM and the actor Pierce Brosnan. Whatever the roster is in those plans, it's a rough draft, not the roster we'd get in the final game. It's possible that newcomers like Daisy and Ridley weren't in those plans from December 2015. And it's possible that that list could have newcomers that ended up getting cut in development. So it's very likely that we could have an ARMS fighter in the game.

I want to add that one thing people forget is these fan theories have a bad habit of being wrong. If you want another example, loot at some of the roster theories saying we'd get 56 characters on release. They are based on real information but usually make bad assumptions. The same is true here too. You have a lot of people talking as if they know how game development works. We don't know how the proposal changes or how it turns into the project plan or what goes on with it. People are basically guessing.

Consider this. Let's run with the Dec 2015 assumption. Well, most of the Switch launch titles would have been decided at this point. And what if Sakurai wanted to add a "Switch era" character (similar to what he's done with other weird categories). So what if he decided to add an ARMS character to represent the Switch. Remember, ARMS was shown off alongside 1-2-Switch as a compliment to it as a joycon game. Koizumi described 1-2-Switch as a game anyone could play where ARMS was a game with depth and challenge. They were considered crucial games for the system. So it would not be unreasonable for Sakurai to add a character to add something Switch related.

Now, there is no saying that will happen, but I bring it up as a possibility. We don't know what is happening and we shouldn't make predictions based on such limited info as how a game is being developed.
As an aside, people didn't think a Gen 6 Pokemon would happen because it was "too soon."

 

[Cosmic77]

Before I go on, I want to note that the Source Gaming tweet misquotes the translation. It was the first project proposal, not the project plan. Both SG's and Nintendo Everything's translation say "first proposal."


I want to add that one thing people forget is these fan theories have a bad habit of being wrong. If you want another example, loot at some of the roster theories saying we'd get 56 characters on release. They are based on real information but usually make bad assumptions. The same is true here too. You have a lot of people talking as if they know how game development works. We don't know how the proposal changes or how it turns into the project plan or what goes on with it. People are basically guessing.

Consider this. Let's run with the Dec 2015 assumption. Well, most of the Switch launch titles would have been decided at this point. And what if Sakurai wanted to add a "Switch era" character (similar to what he's done with other weird categories). So what if he decided to add an ARMS character to represent the Switch. Remember, ARMS was shown off alongside 1-2-Switch as a compliment to it as a joycon game. Koizumi described 1-2-Switch as a game anyone could play where ARMS was a game with depth and challenge. They were considered crucial games for the system. So it would not be unreasonable for Sakurai to add a character to add something Switch related.

Now, there is no saying that will happen, but I bring it up as a possibility. We don't know what is happening and we shouldn't make predictions based on such limited info as how a game is being developed.
As an aside, people didn't think a Gen 6 Pokemon would happen because it was "too soon."

Even though I'm not confident enough to say Spring Man is one of the more likely characters, I do wish people would stop ruling him out entirely because of a mere date. Sakurai is developing a game for a console that had a lot riding on it back then. I can't speak for the man himself, but it just seems like common sense to want to look at upcoming Switch titles when making Ultimate. Might not be to the extent of a playable character, but any type of promotion of the Switch would likely be far more effective and ideal than putting a heavy emphasis on the Wii U and it's characters.

While I do think it's ridiculous to consider Spring Man a shoo-in, I think it's equally ridiculous to not even consider the possibility just because, "Nah, ARMS came out after Dec. 2015."

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As an aside, people didn't think a Gen 6 Pokemon would happen because it was "too soon."

No, I remember most people expecting a Gen 6 representative, just not one of the new Pokemon precisely because of Mewtwo being the poster boy of X and Y with two Mega Evolution (seeing as Mega Evolution was the big thing in X and Y), Mega Mewtwo Y being a major character in a 2013 movie as well as Mewtwo's role in Pokemon. With all the Brawl Pokemon getting Gen 6 love, people just assumed that the Brawl Pokemon + Mewtwo was adequate enough to represent X and Y. I mean, very few people thought Zoroark had a good chance in 2013.

Might not be to the extent of a playable character, but any type of promotion of the Switch would likely be far more effective and ideal than putting a heavy emphasis on the Wii U and it's characters.

But none of the newcomers we have so far has anything to do with promoting Switch games.
and general Splatoon content is based off the first game, not their second game.
sure as heck isn't here to promote anything, she is a bonus fanservice character.
Hasn't even been confirmed to be in Metroid Prime 4 as far as we know and his design is more of a mix between Other M, Super Metroid and Zero Mission. Heck, there is no Samus Returns content being represented in Smash and that was a late 3DS game.

 

[Gallowglass]

I'm pretty sure we all know that if anyone gets in it would be Spring Man but personally I would want Minmin. I've not really played the game but I like her character design.

I don't think its is a guarantee that he'll be in. ARMS might be too new of a game to get it put in time (kind of what happen to Splatoon). Maybe in DLC if the demand is high enough.

 

[GalacticPetey]

We also have to look at precedent. Newcomers are almost always from the generation before. The Melee newcomers were from 64 era or before. Roy is an exception but he was a super last minute clone and not initially planned. Brawl newcomers are all Gamecube era or earlier. Lucario is the sole exception. Smash 4 newcomers are all Wii era or earlier, with a few 3DS characters. As we can see, the games always use characters from the generation before with a few exceptions. And those exceptions are always either last minute clones or a pokemon rep, and also from a handheld that had been out for a few years already. Pokemon is the only franchise we know that Sakurai puts a placeholder spot in for, and that's because it's a massive franchise that will always be popular.

Look at the Ultimate newcomers. So far all are Wii U era or older. Spring Man can happen, it will just be as DLC.

 

[SmashChu]

No, I remember most people expecting a Gen 6 representative, just not one of the new Pokemon precisely because of Mewtwo being the poster boy of X and Y with two Mega Evolution (seeing as Mega Evolution was the big thing in X and Y), Mega Mewtwo Y being a major character in a 2013 movie as well as Mewtwo's role in Pokemon. With all the Brawl Pokemon getting Gen 6 love, people just assumed that the Brawl Pokemon + Mewtwo was adequate enough to represent X and Y. I mean, very few people thought Zoroark had a good chance in 2013.



But none of the newcomers we have so far has anything to do with promoting Switch games.
and general Splatoon content is based off the first game, not their second game.
sure as heck isn't here to promote anything, she is a bonus fanservice character.
Hasn't even been confirmed to be in Metroid Prime 4 as far as we know and his design is more of a mix between Other M, Super Metroid and Zero Mission. Heck, there is no Samus Returns content being represented in Smash and that was a late 3DS game.

First, think you might be misremembering. Looking back through the old Rate Their Chances, no one suggested Gen 6 Pokemon and I'm not seeing the concept getting rated. Greninja was unique as he was the only character not rated at all. So I wouldn't say Gen 6 Pokemon was a popular opinion.

On the second point, keep in mind we have already gotten a lot of content from Switch games. Splatoon 2, BoTW, Odyssey and Snipperclips have something. It should also be noted Nintendo is holding stuff back such as the Odyssey stage so there may be more Switch stuff as the other user is implying.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

And I've seen people put an unknown character from an upcoming Fire Emblem game in their wishlist videos. If they think a Fire Emblem character that they know literally nothing about could be in Smash Ultimate, I think those should be the kind of people who would think a ARMS character like Spring Man has a chance, right? Then again, not everything people predict comes into Smash. But if Greninja was added into Smash early in X and Y's development and Ultimate has stuff from the Switch like Super Mario Odyssey, the roster in past games change in development with cuts and late additions, ARMS was popular when it came out, and they've had over a year to get a character working in Smash, I say Spring Man's chances are pretty good.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Putting my vote in for Twintelle on the account of her and Lola Pop being the only two characters I ever play as in ARMS, and of those two, Twintelle has more votes.

 

[Meshmaster101]

I think that it's a guarantee that we get Spring Man for an ARMS character if we get one just because then they can squeeze out a Springtron echo fighter.

 

[MysticKnives]

I think that it's a guarantee that we get Spring Man for an ARMS character if we get one just because then they can squeeze out a Springtron echo fighter.

They'd probably be able to get away with making Springtron an alt costume tbh.