New IC chain grab, you'll want to check this

[saintrage]

Ok, so we all know about the downthrow to forward air combo that works up until about 27%. And after that you either have to tech chase or f-smash right? not anymore.

How to perform:
1. After you do your usual 2 dthrow to fair combos, on your next grab do a grab but hold the control stick forward, or in the direction of your grab.

2. Press A/Z so Popo does a headbut before nana finishes her grab, then press b so that nana does squall hammer. (or you can head but again with Z to make Nana move father away from you before hammering, this is character specific though.

3. Release the control stick when Nana is just past your opponent

4. Halfway through squall's hammer, your opponent will be knocked out of your grab, and sent either right in front you, ahead of Nana (if done wrong), or behind you (happens the majority of the time, 99% if done properly).

5. While your opponent is recovering, use Popo to regrab and repeat. I have gotten characters up to 130 percent before they were able to tech.

6. Follow up with any of the IC grab to kill moves, like d/f throw to fair to fsmash, dthrow to Nana footstool hop to fsmash, or anything else you can think of.

whala! 0 to death grab combo with IC's.

EDIT: I have looked in this further, and figured out that if you opponent touches the ground before you ca grab, they will have a split second, like literally .2 secs to spot doge or jump and get out of the chain grab.

The good news in with most characters, even metaknight, you can still squall hammer with Nana and keep them from hitting the ground up to about 70 percent. It all depends on where you place your Nana when you do squall's hammer.

To counter the jump you can squall hammer with Popo and follow up with a grab from Nana (they will nearly fall into your grab unless properly Smash DI'd) to any smash with Popo

or to counter the spot doge you can just grab with Nana if Popo is to far away with squall's hammer.



**note** i have not extensively measured the effects of smash DI or regular DI yet, and i would appreciate feedback on this subject as i don't have readily available people to play against.

Thanks guys and i hope this helps. Also let me know if this has been previously posted. I Looked and didn't see anything.

 

[Mr.Snifflez]

videos bish

 

[TechnoMonster]

ICs are definatly top tier.

 

[Hikarihoshi]

I'll try that. Thanks for the info! =D

 

[saintrage]

I've got a replay of it on my wii, but i'm still working on getting my Wifi up and working. I'll see what i can do about a video, maybe i can use my dad's camera or something.

 

[Dan_X]

this sounds awesome. I don't have time to try it out just yet... but, to be honest, I'm having a hard time picturing this. A video would be immensely helpful...

I'll have to read this word for word again and try it next time I play.. which at this rate may be about a week--- school is ridiculous right now. Thanks for posting this :D

 

[Hikarihoshi]

Hmm... I tried it in training and it works wonderfully. But when I used it against com, it doesn't work so well. I then tried it on my brother and I can NEVER do it. I do a down throw to fair two times and then tried the new chain grab but before I can do Nana's squall's hammer, my bro gets out. I tried doing this at higher percentages but he tends to always get out. And when during the time I can actually do Nana's squall's hammer, his percentage is too high for me to chain grab (he flies behind me too far).

So... yeah. It's not working for me right now. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? =/ Video pl0x. xP

 

[Corner-Trap]

I experimented with this, and you don't have to do a Dthrow into Fair to get it started. Just grab someone while they're around 30% or higher then tilt the control stick very slightly to the side and do the solo squall hammer. This CG works till around 100-120% before the opponent can escape. This CG also doesn't work on large characters because it will not knock them behind Popo. The reason Nana's solo squall hammer knocks the opponent behind Popo is because she goes past them and hits them with the back end of her hammer. On large characters she can't get to the other side of them unless you push down harder on the control stick, but then that will result in you doing a Fthrow which will break the CG. This is a very good find, and I'll add it into my CG combos sometimes, but it's a bit situational depending on what character you're fighting.

 

[Delphiki]

Why not just d-throw while having Nana take a couple steps forward before using her solo squall?

 

[saintrage]

Hmm... I tried it in training and it works wonderfully. But when I used it against com, it doesn't work so well. I then tried it on my brother and I can NEVER do it. I do a down throw to fair two times and then tried the new chain grab but before I can do Nana's squall's hammer, my bro gets out. I tried doing this at higher percentages but he tends to always get out. And when during the time I can actually do Nana's squall's hammer, his percentage is too high for me to chain grab (he flies behind me too far).

So... yeah. It's not working for me right now. Maybe I'm doing it wrong? =/ Video pl0x. xP

I'll get a video up s soon as i can on how to do it. As for your problem, that may be the downside to this form of chain grab. Comps are notorious for getting out of grabs easily, and it seems to not be so hard for humans to do in Brawl aswell. However to lower chance of them escaping, try it at only mid percents like 30 to 70 since above 70 they get knocked back to much most of the time, and also try pressing Z once or twice after the initial Grab to give Nana time to move in Front of you opponent.

I Just tried this on a lvl 8 comp (the hitting z (grab) twice after the initial grab)while he was at 33% and i was able to perform Nana's forward B in time. However the timing for hitting Z twice before Nana finishes is kinda hard to do, but like in melee with the wobble, i'm sure someone will get the timing perfected if this CG proves to be useful.

Also if they do get out before you get to do squal's hammer, the only way they can avoid it is if they jump out of the grab. If not they will only move slightly forward and you can forward B to regrab/smash depending on where you are on the stage. (also they might not mess up and DI out of the forward b, but this is rather hard to do) in any case nothing is perfect and you must improvise, luckily you have TWO characters you can control.

I Really appreciate your feedback, keep it coming, I'd love to be able to see this incorporated in the IC game as it would mean combo's from 0 to death potentially ^^ yay for CG's

I experimented with this, and you don't have to do a Dthrow into Fair to get it started. Just grab someone while they're around 30% or higher then tilt the control stick very slightly to the side and do the solo squall hammer. This CG works till around 100-120% before the opponent can escape. This CG also doesn't work on large characters because it will not knock them behind Popo. The reason Nana's solo squall hammer knocks the opponent behind Popo is because she goes past them and hits them with the back end of her hammer. On large characters she can't get to the other side of them unless you push down harder on the control stick, but then that will result in you doing a Fthrow which will break the CG. This is a very good find, and I'll add it into my CG combos sometimes, but it's a bit situational depending on what character you're fighting.

The reason i said to do the dthrow to fair was to rack up damage for sure. You can start at lower percents, but it is also easier for your opponent to escape your grab.

This is situational CG, but not as much as you think. The way i see it this CG is for the middle of the stage, and the dthrow fair spike is for the edges .

With larger character, the only one i had trouble preforming this on was Bowser, he's just too fat. Even still i works on him at lower percents if you follow him forward with the end of Nana's forward b to re grab with Popo. Not sure how DI may affect this. The reason you probably couldn't perform this was because when you did the initial grab, you forgot to push the control stick in the direction of your grab, and then hold it there. Nana will still do forward b without Popo doing a forward throw.

If you always grab like that, (holding the control stick in the direction of your throw) you'll always have the opportunity do do this CG. And if you want to do something different, you release the control stick to the middle and nothing happens. You are free to do any throw.

And thank you for your feed back, i'm not sure if posting it as a viable CG is called for yet, since there are a few things that still need to be tested. When i am with my smash buddies again later this week I'll try to figure it all out, if no one else has answered the questions before then.

 

[Hikarihoshi]

I experimented with this, and you don't have to do a Dthrow into Fair to get it started. Just grab someone while they're around 30% or higher then tilt the control stick very slightly to the side and do the solo squall hammer. This CG works till around 100-120% before the opponent can escape. This CG also doesn't work on large characters because it will not knock them behind Popo. The reason Nana's solo squall hammer knocks the opponent behind Popo is because she goes past them and hits them with the back end of her hammer. On large characters she can't get to the other side of them unless you push down harder on the control stick, but then that will result in you doing a Fthrow which will break the CG. This is a very good find, and I'll add it into my CG combos sometimes, but it's a bit situational depending on what character you're fighting.

Did you try this in training with a not moving com, or was it against real people? Cause yeah, I can do it perfectly fine in training, but not against my bro. =/

@ saintrage: Okay, I'll try doing the chain grab at around 30-70% with my bro tomorrow. I don't think I can do it around 30-40ish because he can get out of my grab pretty easily. I was about to do more experiments today, but he got mad and stopped playing with me when I dthrow fair, dthrow fair, x4 Alternating throws, dthrow fair spike him to his death. *sigh* he called me cheap and left. =/ Oh well, hope everything goes well with more experiments and your video! =D

 

[saintrage]

Ok So there seems to be a slight flaw in this CG that needs testing. On lighter characters, they seem to be able to DI forward and way from the forward b, thanks to void for bringing this to our attention.

I'm not sure if its because of where Nana has to be when she starts the forward B because was trying it on lvl 8 comps in training and the lighter characters seemed to be able to DI out of it if they broke out too soon.

My hope is that humans can not break out as easily as lvl 8 comps, and that even with DI the forward B will send you backwards, because on a few occasions, the comps still went backward, because i saw them move forward, but they were hit again and sent back.

Obviously more testing is required that i can not particularly do atm.

Why not just d-throw while having Nana take a couple steps forward before using her solo squall?

because it does not send you opponent into a position where you can regrab.

@ saintrage: Okay, I'll try doing the chain grab at around 30-70% with my bro tomorrow. I don't think I can do it around 30-40ish because he can get out of my grab pretty easily. I was about to do more experiments today, but he got mad and stopped playing with me when I dthrow fair, dthrow fair, x4 Alternating throws, dthrow fair spike him to his death. *sigh* he called me cheap and left. =/ Oh well, hope everything goes well with more experiments and your video! =D

Ahaha thats awesome. I really need to practice my alternating 0o, thats something i havn't really been working on recently >.<

 

[VirtualVoid]

From my testing this is escapeable but will probably work atleast once on a human unless he expects it. I think time should be put into mastering alternating throws instead but maybe we are missing something here to make it work 100% (Because after all, it is much easier than alternating throws)

Off topic: Expect a video/thread with new info about perfecting alternating throws, getting the knack of it, tips for how to base your timing on the sounds the IC make while throwing and more.

 

[Corner-Trap]

I did more testing on this grab and I was able to consistently get the opponent to around 100% before they escaped. Keep in mind that I was doing this around 3 o'clock at night against level 9 CPU's so I'm not sure how accurate my readings are. I honestly find this easier than alternating throws.

VirtualVoid

Why not make a whole thread just for CG's. We have way too many various CG videos and we should get it organized. Also, check you PM's.

 

[saintrage]

From my testing this is escapeable but will probably work atleast once on a human unless he expects it. I think time should be put into mastering alternating throws instead but maybe we are missing something here to make it work 100% (Because after all, it is much easier than alternating throws)

Off topic: Expect a video/thread with new info about perfecting alternating throws, getting the knack of it, tips for how to base your timing on the sounds the IC make while throwing and more.

I will most definitely practice my alt-throwing. As for this CG i'll see if i can get it to work with my friend Moogle. He's know for his DI and smash DI in 64 where i live, so if he can escape it 100% of the time or at least close to that it probably isn't worth the effort.

That video would be really helpful, as i am having trouble with the placement of Popo after the first grab with Nana. I just can't seem to get the third grab on high DMG characters.

 

[saintrage]

I think i may have fixed this CG guys, but i want to have it tested before i post again. Anyone who wants to test it for me before Saturday just send me a pm.

 

[CPU?]

it's funny what people think about cg the peeps who get cg'ed get all mad and say cg's are cheap! but the person doing the cg just laughes as the opponent isnt kill 0 to death...

 

[IDK]

ICs are definatly top tier.

not top... broken. 1 grab is always death if you're good. oh... and just a simple question to add in here. i see that everyone does dthrow to nana fair... but i just jump and start tilting the stick forward and now that i have the feel for it the fair usually hits them right after the fthrow and they go down as usual. its a lot easier for me. the problem with doing it wrong is that they fly like a non sweetspotted fair if you are too late.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

I'm starting to get problems doing that. When I do it, my opponent flies past my Nana's Foward air at even low damages a.k.a. 0-25%. Does anyone know what I am doing wrong?
For what I do button wise, I grab with Popo, jump with Nana, immediately do a down throw with Popo, and after that, immediately use side c-stick to forward air with Nana...

 

[Popertop]

Yeah I was going to try something like this next time I had my hands on a wii.
I was using squall as a follow-up to teched nana fair, and it worked pretty well.
i was trying it against RoyR's Marth and he could Up B out of it, but against anyone else,
it would work if they were recovering on the ground you see.

Also, this chaingrab biz, when I was working with RoyR I thought about doing this actually its funny that I read this thread after I think of it. but my thoughts were that it would be DI-ed very easy, but if you could time it so nana would squall and have your popo grab hit so you could adjust your momentum during it, some potential there. as soon as there is a video of this it will become obvious what the best options are.

Also, I found if you spike marth off the edge at any percent above 29%, there's a 50/50 guessing game resulting in a footstool or edgehog, horribly embarrasing the marth.

After you spike them, if they up b immediately, you can edgehog immediately and that beats it.

If they wait, you can follow them down and footstool.

The average marth player will wait, and get footstooled to his demise.
RoyR had some nice mixups on it, but generally he died about half the time.

Sorry if this was already known, I just started playing brawl climbers and I'm all excited and postulating and stuff.

 

[EverAlert]

I'm starting to get problems doing that. When I do it, my opponent flies past my Nana's Foward air at even low damages a.k.a. 0-25%. Does anyone know what I am doing wrong?
For what I do button wise, I grab with Popo, jump with Nana, immediately do a down throw with Popo, and after that, immediately use side c-stick to forward air with Nana...

I had this problem at first when I was learning this; Nana kept missing when the opponent's damage is too low (like 0%ish) or too high (they bounce too far). The trick is to DI forward immediately after you have Nana jump. That way she'll always be right over the opponent when she goes to smack them down.



*points to OP*

And yes, a video would be helpful. I personally always have difficulty imagining new CGs until I see a video of it, then everything clicks. :/

 

[iceclimbersinfinent]

i dont think i will use this, it sounds complicated and i cant imagine it in my head

 

[Popertop]

yeah, I was having trouble with them flying away too.
you have to dthrow > jump DI forward fair.
that's like the button speed too. the second action is all like one button press almost.
I wanna make a video of my hands when I do it, and show follow ups if they tech and stuff.

 

[Miller]

Who cares if it works or not?
IC have an infinite combination of 0-Deaths. Not like this is any more guaranteed to work then ones that you can't escape.

 

[smaci92]

ya it sounds so exiting and useful!...but I think we need a video...thanks for putting this up.

 

[l3lue2ain]

this sounds really difficult to do and hard visual to mentally picture.

 

[bentleet]

We wouldn't have to visualize this new questionable cg if someone would uploada video of it so we could see it for ourselves.

 

[rchau]

I would like to see a video of this. On the most part, i agree with Virtual Void. More time should be spent practicing infinite alternating throws that are inescapable anyway...

 

[swordgard]

This is very useless, we have infinites and this is SDI-able.

 

[l!nk_aut]

This is very useless, we have infinites and this is SDI-able.

^this

alt throws > all.

ic's should search for some other techniques than cg's for makin them better. we don't need 9001 ways to cg our opponent on a flat surface (especially not when its di-able), we already have alt. throws.

 

[Diddyknight]

Very old and very useless....

 

[00-Zero]

And only getting more useless as it's bumped once every couple of months. Why isn't this locked yet?

 

[theunabletable]

This is very useless, we have infinites and this is SDI-able.

This.

Why do this when they can do SDI shenanigans when you can just alt-grab?

EDIT: Wait I hadn't realized this was almost 2 years old...