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New Frame sync combo and kill setup

skoolzout1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
28
Location
Canada
NNID
Skoolzout1
3DS FC
0018-2889-0858
Edit #2: Hey check out this video! It's an example of a good way to practise frame syncs, at least I found it helpful.
https://youtu.be/A7KE0yaTS2s
Try and frame sync Nair a character across a stage.. Again sorry for crap videos, I don't have a capture card



Well, it's been a long long time since anything new has been really discovered for ZSS. I've been experimenting with some frame synced moves to see what sorts of things this can allow.

For those of you that don't know, a frame synced aerial is done by landing a fast fall aerial move and hitting your opponent the same frame that you hit the ground. Causing your landing lag to clash with the hit lag frames. If this is wrong someone can correct my terminology but the basic thing to take from this is that in order to do this you must be fast falling, and you must land your aerial on your opponent the same frame you land on the ground.

Now what can ZSS do from this? Well I found that if you land a frame synced nair on an opponent it can make down smash a guaranteed follow up. (Haven't tested this on every character, there may be exceptions) and a guaranteed down smash can mean a plethora of different follow ups. Like, for example, another frame synced nair.

Here's a link to a video where I show off a little combo I've managed to work out. (I've tested and it is inescapable and non-airdodgeable at least on pikachu)

https://youtu.be/xjoRKuZjkuQ

I ask that you all try this and see if you can come up with a better follow pattern. And No I don't believe up airs is a better idea since you don't have time to land a fast fall up air and it's too low a percent for Up air Up air Up B stuff.



Now what about the kill setup I mentioned in the title?

Well, a long time ago I learned that Nair to UpB was a true combo if you caught the opponent DI'ing inward. But when I tried with frame syncing nair. I was able to land it much more easily. Potentially making it a true combo for a long time. I plan on testing this more thoroughly but for the time being here's a video to give you an idea

https://youtu.be/1iA9c9ynmMw


If you made it this far, congrats. You're a trooper. Sorry for the crap quality videos but I hope this inspired some development with some frame synced moves. Thank you plenty

EDIT:

I've been working on an alternate 0-death combo using frame syncs. Haven't ever been able to capture it on video.

Since then however I have experimented with frame sync Bair, and have found that it can true combo into Flip Kick much much much earlier than nair.

https://youtu.be/M_BZ1qxXwfM

This is an example, Bair to FK can kill greninja at 25 percent

I was messing around with it at 20 percent even and it's definitley still possible it's just more picky with the initial distance that you hit at.

Nonetheless, this could be a new thing if any of you ZSS players out there are willing to practise it.
 
Last edited:

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
Well, it's been a long long time since anything new has been really discovered for ZSS. I've been experimenting with some frame synced moves to see what sorts of things this can allow.

For those of you that don't know, a frame synced aerial is done by landing a fast fall aerial move and hitting your opponent the same frame that you hit the ground. Causing your landing lag to clash with the hit lag frames. If this is wrong someone can correct my terminology but the basic thing to take from this is that in order to do this you must be fast falling, and you must land your aerial on your opponent the same frame you land on the ground.

Now what can ZSS do from this? Well I found that if you land a frame synced nair on an opponent it can make down smash a guaranteed follow up. (Haven't tested this on every character, there may be exceptions) and a guaranteed down smash can mean a plethora of different follow ups. Like, for example, another frame synced nair.

Here's a link to a video where I show off a little combo I've managed to work out. (I've tested and it is inescapable and non-airdodgeable at least on pikachu)

https://youtu.be/xjoRKuZjkuQ

I ask that you all try this and see if you can come up with a better follow pattern. And No I don't believe up airs is a better idea since you don't have time to land a fast fall up air and it's too low a percent for Up air Up air Up B stuff.



Now what about the kill setup I mentioned in the title?

Well, a long time ago I learned that Nair to UpB was a true combo if you caught the opponent DI'ing inward. But when I tried with frame syncing nair. I was able to land it much more easily. Potentially making it a true combo for a long time. I plan on testing this more thoroughly but for the time being here's a video to give you an idea

https://youtu.be/1iA9c9ynmMw


If you made it this far, congrats. You're a trooper. Sorry for the crap quality videos but I hope this inspired some development with some frame synced moves. Thank you plenty
I swear I was talking to another zss about nair to boost kick being the future for us with the change like 2 weeks ago.

:)
 
Last edited:

skoolzout1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
28
Location
Canada
NNID
Skoolzout1
3DS FC
0018-2889-0858
I swear I was talking to another zss about nair to boost kick being the future for us with the change like 2 weeks ago.

:)

Haha well I thought of the idea entirely by myself. I discovered it before I really implemented frame syncs into my gameplay but I noticed it makes the setup so much more viable.

Still gotta get better at frame syncs from different spacings. I can do it virtually on command from fairly close, but being able to frame sync from near and far on command would be super helpful. And could potentially make nair to Flip Kick a true combo for longer. Who knows.. Practise practise practise
 

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
Haha well I thought of the idea entirely by myself. I discovered it before I really implemented frame syncs into my gameplay but I noticed it makes the setup so much more viable.

Still gotta get better at frame syncs from different spacings. I can do it virtually on command from fairly close, but being able to frame sync from near and far on command would be super helpful. And could potentially make nair to Flip Kick a true combo for longer. Who knows.. Practise practise practise
I get so distracted by other games I spend to much time on dfo and dota2 to live the zss highlife
 

skoolzout1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
28
Location
Canada
NNID
Skoolzout1
3DS FC
0018-2889-0858
Everyone look at the new addition to the list. Only commenting so it's obvious that I've updated it.. Idk if making edits in the initial post shows up on the thread.
 
Last edited:

Dr. Tuen

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,396
3DS FC
0559-7294-8323
Yo! I have some info for you.

Firstly, frame sync works by attacking very close to the ground and touching the ground during hitlag. It is not possible to land an attacking hitbox and land on the same frame. You can find more info about the phenomenon at this link here. Also notable: because this hinges on movement that occurs during hitlag, fastfalling isn't completely necessary. Some setups (like an interesting footstool setup for Ganon) do not require fastafalling to complete. As far as we are aware, each viable frame sync setup (i.e. the timing of the move and/or a fastfall) is frame-perfect.

We should also consider if these combos still work at optimal spacing distances. Some of the videos you have there show ZSS landing very close to her opponent. If your foe shields the attack, or worse they perfect shield, you're going to get grabbed at that distance. Moving out to ideal spacing is good for safety, but it may reduce the viable range of the proposed combo, or eliminate it all together. For instance. Nair --> paralyzer --> missed tech --> foxtrot/downsmash is a true combo at close range, but at optimal spacing, it misses. To keep that combo viable, you have to flip the paralyzer and the fox trot.

Lastly, these are still pretty neat. I'm looking forward to testing more viable options with frame synced backairs... if I can get it to work consistently enough to test. What's your success rate with frame syncing these? It's a frame perfect trick, and there seems to be no way to buffer one for ZSS.
 

skoolzout1

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
28
Location
Canada
NNID
Skoolzout1
3DS FC
0018-2889-0858
Yo! I have some info for you.

Firstly, frame sync works by attacking very close to the ground and touching the ground during hitlag. It is not possible to land an attacking hitbox and land on the same frame. You can find more info about the phenomenon at this link here. Also notable: because this hinges on movement that occurs during hitlag, fastfalling isn't completely necessary. Some setups (like an interesting footstool setup for Ganon) do not require fastafalling to complete. As far as we are aware, each viable frame sync setup (i.e. the timing of the move and/or a fastfall) is frame-perfect.

We should also consider if these combos still work at optimal spacing distances. Some of the videos you have there show ZSS landing very close to her opponent. If your foe shields the attack, or worse they perfect shield, you're going to get grabbed at that distance. Moving out to ideal spacing is good for safety, but it may reduce the viable range of the proposed combo, or eliminate it all together. For instance. Nair --> paralyzer --> missed tech --> foxtrot/downsmash is a true combo at close range, but at optimal spacing, it misses. To keep that combo viable, you have to flip the paralyzer and the fox trot.

Lastly, these are still pretty neat. I'm looking forward to testing more viable options with frame synced backairs... if I can get it to work consistently enough to test. What's your success rate with frame syncing these? It's a frame perfect trick, and there seems to be no way to buffer one for ZSS.


I have taken the fact that I do these frame syncs Fairly close to the opponent into account.. It's just the way I first learned the timing, I feel more comfortable with the timing when I'm close for some reason.. Frame sync in definitley works from max range and I've been trying to get good at close range and far range to be able to do both virtually on command... My success rate with frame syncs on a good day is probably about 50 percent efficiency.. Meaning that if I plan on frame syncing my odds of getting it in the heat of the moment are about half and half..

https://youtu.be/Kps3iCuSCao

Here's a video of max range frame sync nair to FJK on a live person, who was pretty good too. (Probably better than me admittedly)

You can even see I had a tonne of time and even had to pause for a second to wait for him to travel a bit

Also thanks for correcting my falsehoods about frame syncs :3
 
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