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New cloud MU chart

Dizenn

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
23
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Switch FC
3300-0492-5929
After over 2000 games with cloud, here is my current perspective on his matchups





How do you feel about this? What changes would you make and why?
 

Guljy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
84
Switch FC
SW 3601 9213 6336
I think this is a pretty list I agree with most of it. Only things I would change would be Palutena and Roy are minus 1 and maybe sonic as well is minus 1. I feel like Palu has some super fast moves and she can get you off stage pretty fast and you don't want that as cloud at all. Also, here projectiles make cloud rush in and the angle of her back-throw is pretty difficult to deal with imo. Roy also just seems really fast and his attacks send far some attacks like his side b send at an angle that makes you die pretty early from not being able to make it back. Also his fair even weak hit is hard to deal with. Sonic I haven't played too much but he didn't seem to hard but I don't know. All in all great list and here is my take on it.
 

Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
325
Why is Dark/Samus at -1?
Samus is so slow that it seems like Cloud has virtually no lag on any of his aerials or grounded moves when they're spaced. Can't really approach since Climhazzard and Usmash are good anti-airs and Blade Beam just trades with missiles or baby CS so Samus can't force an approach. Can't fight up close or at mid range either since Cloud's Car Bumper Sword out ranges everything but Zair. Full CS hasn't been a threat to anyone since the projectile nerf.
What types of problems are good Samus players giving you?
 

Phatty

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
59
I'm not really a Cloud main but why would Little Mac be even? To me, it seems like Uspecial OOS would negate a lot of Mac's ground options since he doesn't have a single grounded move that is better than -13 on shield. Cloud also has pretty good landing options. The only advantage that I can see Mac having is that he can Dsmash Cloud's recovery pretty effectively. Is there something else that I'm missing?
 

Guljy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
84
Switch FC
SW 3601 9213 6336
I'm not really a Cloud main but why would Little Mac be even? To me, it seems like Uspecial OOS would negate a lot of Mac's ground options since he doesn't have a single grounded move that is better than -13 on shield. Cloud also has pretty good landing options. The only advantage that I can see Mac having is that he can Dsmash Cloud's recovery pretty effectively. Is there something else that I'm missing?
I see what you are saying it for me at least is that the shield stun and super armor of macs smash attacks make up b out of shield less good. Still tho, you could just not up b out of shield which is what I tell myself.
 

silenthunder

Banned via Administration
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
812
3DS FC
0490-6839-9144
Why is Dark/Samus at -1?
Samus is so slow that it seems like Cloud has virtually no lag on any of his aerials or grounded moves when they're spaced. Can't really approach since Climhazzard and Usmash are good anti-airs and Blade Beam just trades with missiles or baby CS so Samus can't force an approach. Can't fight up close or at mid range either since Cloud's Car Bumper Sword out ranges everything but Zair. Full CS hasn't been a threat to anyone since the projectile nerf.
What types of problems are good Samus players giving you?
Hey, I struggle with samus no matter who I use. Any tips?
 

Dizenn

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
23
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Switch FC
3300-0492-5929
Why is Dark/Samus at -1?
Samus is so slow that it seems like Cloud has virtually no lag on any of his aerials or grounded moves when they're spaced. Can't really approach since Climhazzard and Usmash are good anti-airs and Blade Beam just trades with missiles or baby CS so Samus can't force an approach. Can't fight up close or at mid range either since Cloud's Car Bumper Sword out ranges everything but Zair. Full CS hasn't been a threat to anyone since the projectile nerf.
What types of problems are good Samus players giving you?
I put Dark/Samus at -1 just because Cloud's biggest weakness is recovering to stage and I find that Dark/Samus can exploit this well. Her tether grab is very strong against Cloud since it can outrange a lot of his options and throw him off-stage. From there, nearly any attack from Dark/Samus could mean a stock.
I find that good Samus players are just very good at keeping cloud off of the stage, and while on the stage can rack up enough damage with a "hit n run" sort of playstyle to put cloud in a rough spot.

I do see what you're saying though, and maybe my personal bias has made me place her lower than she should be. I feel like I have a somewhat hard time against Samus in general. But I mean, that's the point of this thread, I want to broaden my perspective and perfect this matchup chart by sharing thoughts.
 

BitBitio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
205
Kirby is -1.
Cloud is way too easy to gimp. His range would constitute -2 but unlucky for Cloud he has a mediocre recovery.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Kirby is -1.
Cloud is way too easy to gimp. His range would constitute -2 but unlucky for Cloud he has a mediocre recovery.
Also now with limit being way less abusable I can argue for -0.5. Cloud has that sword up our face all day but it’s a manageable matchup with his more prominent weaknesses.
 

BitBitio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
205
Why is Puff even? She suffers from poor range and endurance like Kirby, but has these issues worse. They both gimp Cloud the same and Kirby actually has better grounded framedata, grab game, and combos. Puff and Kirby should have similar MUs with Cloud.
 

Dizenn

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 18, 2019
Messages
23
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Switch FC
3300-0492-5929
Kirby is -1.
Cloud is way too easy to gimp. His range would constitute -2 but unlucky for Cloud he has a mediocre recovery.
I see, can't say that I face many experienced Kirby players who really understand how to gimp well and that its the best way to beat cloud. But yeah, I can see Kirby having a slight advantage.
Also now with limit being way less abusable I can argue for -0.5. Cloud has that sword up our face all day but it’s a manageable matchup with his more prominent weaknesses.
I think I like -0.5 more than -1. I feel like cloud is just good at racking up damage against kirby. Cross-Slash and Climhazard just shut down a kirby going for a short hop aerial approach. Then once they get some damage on them, I feel like finding a Bair to close the stock is pretty easy against these floaty round bois.
Why is Puff even? She suffers from poor range and endurance like Kirby, but has these issues worse. They both gimp Cloud the same and Kirby actually has better grounded framedata, grab game, and combos. Puff and Kirby should have similar MUs with Cloud.
The more I think about this, I feel like kirby does actually have the stronger matchup against cloud. Kirby at least has a tool to deal with Blade Beam, and with all the other advantages that you list. Puff can totally gimp cloud, but kirby has much better options like you listed to get the ball rolling and put cloud in a gimpable disadvantage state.
 
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