Ness vs. Snake (-2 or -1?)

Eagleye893

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
2,452
Location
Earth
3DS FC
1821-9332-2146
NNID
isJolTz
#1
Many Ness Mains believe that Snake doesn't have as much of a lead on Ness as was previously believed.

Reasons for possible change:

PK Fire and PKT both provide excellent ways to stop a lot of grenade shenanigans.
Uair, Nair, and Dair can all be directed to a point on Snake's body to assure not detonating the grenade on impact (meaning, if the Ness main can space well, they don't risk accidental damage). Bair can too, but I find it less reliable b/c of the funny sourspot it has. If you can perfectly toe-space the Bair, there won't be an explosion, but that doesn't happen all the time.
PKT can be a good trap to all snakes who take the high-recovery path.
Dair is always good for getting a snake who recovers low with cypher.
PSImag can be a way to disrupt and destroy a c4 recovery, and it also is safe to follow up on the snake if he techs the stage with a rising Bair, Nair, or Dair.

I would say more about PK Fire, but it's not THAT good. It provides a lot of openings and sort of destroys any explosive mindgames, but you can be caught using it a lot and get hurt by that.
 

GaGa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
220
Location
Raleigh, NC.
#3
I dont think its as bad as everyone thinks either. I cant tell you how many snakes I've spiked xD

Although once they have their rythm with the grenades it gets noticably harder...

 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
#4
Maybe when you have enough experience against the character then he's not difficult. I'm excluding wifi experience, too.
 

Yink

The Robo-PSIentist
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
7,419
Location
Osaka, Japan
NNID
SSBYink
#5
I never know what to really say about this matchup. I feel like if the Snake seriously knows how to abuse Ness' problems with approaching Snake appropriately then he's pretty set to beat you up. Grenades ruin, just about everything. If you fair and he pulls one out, you blow up, however, nair is very helpful in the matchup.

Ness can juggle Snake pretty well, but has to worry about Snake's grabs and ground game.

Offstage, we pretty much beat the **** out of Snake if he doesn't recover high thanks to dair, nair and magnet reflecting any type of C4 recovery.

---

Basically, tl;dr - If the Snake really knows the matchup and knows how to keep you away and himself safe, I think this matchup is very hard. Snake totally outcamps Ness and forces a dangerous approach.
 

Yink

The Robo-PSIentist
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
7,419
Location
Osaka, Japan
NNID
SSBYink
#7
Not if you mash the right way. Shaky gets out of it like no other...he basically gains an extra inch, so the u-tilt misses.
 

Eagleye893

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
2,452
Location
Earth
3DS FC
1821-9332-2146
NNID
isJolTz
#9
For some reason, I stink at mashing out of it. xP

does the GR > Ftilt always work on ness though? I thought it did...
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
#10
Ugh. I sometimes forget about grab releases. I'm hoping that Nintendo and HAL Laboratories fix that in the next Smash games. I'm hoping that Ness is a lot better, too. I'm tired of having different mains in each game.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
1,287
Location
Redlands, CA
#11
I'd prefer that Ness remains a mid-low tier character with enough quirks to succeed. It's obvious that Ness has some tournament capability but with where he is on the tierlist no one but cool dudes use him. Like it would suck if your favorite character was honestly Metaknight.
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
#12
At one point when Brawl came out, I was going to use Kirby (my original main in 64), King Dedede, and Meta Knight because they're all from the Kirby series and I had been waiting to see these characters finally in a Smash game. I dropped all three and went with Captain Falcon and Ness. I won't be surprised if characters like Meta Knight or Marth are still good in the next game.
 

kennypu

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
491
Location
Blue Blue town, Eagleland
#13
I'll give you a pretty neat tip. although this is not a mu thread, looks like it could be one :3.
i'd say snake vs ness is -1. Grab release to ftilt, grab release to utilt, is just nasty.

but then again snake doesn't have too many things against ness. For those of you who are struggling against a campy snake, or a grenade happy snake, here's something you can do.
utilize your pk thunder. keep distance from him, and use pkt straight towards way in a wavy manner. if he throws the grenade, it will either hit the pkt's head or tail if you do this right, making it either stop, or explode on contact. By doing this, the snake can't use his grenade from a distance at all.

other than that most of us probably know about the psi magnet's momentum cancel. use that to your advantage. The best way is, if you knock him off stage at a low percentage, and he is forced to c4, go down and footstool him. do this a couple times, then start using the psi magnet to finish him off.
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
#14
I did something kind of like that on Brinstar. I watched carefully where this campy Snake planted his C4 and butterfly. While I was on one of the upper platforms at a distance, I would strike him with PK Thunder or cancel his grenades from making them towards me. It was a pretty close match, and it was our last match, seeing how I had horribly lost against him on Halberd. I had to win the final fight, and I did.
 
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
3,217
Location
20XX/Midwest
3DS FC
1993-8618-5171
NNID
Snake_Midwest
#16
I think its -2 because Ness has no high range attacks and Snake can grab release Ness near the Edge and Tech Chase you near the Edge so Grabs by Snake are Deadly
 
Top Bottom