Ness vs. Olimar: (0/-1) Matchup Discussion

[Eagleye893]

I'm going to just post this thread now and write about it later. I've got a midterm that I need to study for as well as a lab that I need to finish by mid-day Monday.

Ness vs. Olimar! GO!

 

[Jamwa]

nair ALL the pikmin!!

 

[Naridax]

PK Fire all of them when they land in front of you.

 

[bubbaking]

Can't Ness's fair kill the pikmin before they reach him?

 

[yoshi8984]

Hm... I do know some things about this MU. I've never gone to a tourney so my advice my not be the best xD

Can't Ness's fair kill the pikmin before they reach him?

-I don't think Fair would do enough damage to kill a blue/purple. (though I could be wrong ) Though it wouldn't affect Yellows, since Fair does have an electric quality. Nair can get the Pikmin off as the hitbox covers Ness and has a normal element.

-Watch out for his grabs, especially the blue ones. A blue pikmin B-Throw can kill at around 100% (depending how close you are to the end of the stage) and U-Throw can kill at around 130%. If he grabs with a white, he WILL pummel, as they do quite a bit of damage for a pummel.

-Olimar can gimp your recovery. He can throw a pikmin onto you and our PKT will hit it (it will die unless if it's a yellow) and we will fall to our doom On the other hand, Olimar's recovery is easy to gimp since edgehogging him will make him miss. Even if he does hit us when our edge invincibility is done, it'll only knock us off and he won't latch onto the edge. However, he can throw a well-aimed Purple to get us off the edge if we try to edgehog him.

-Olimar has several attacks that have disjointed hitboxes.

-Olimar is a light character so he will die easily.

-PK Fire creates a nice wall between you and Olimar and cannot grab you (unless if it's a red) as the Pikmin will have to go through it.

As for stages... Delfino is already good for us. He cannot go in the water either otherwise his pikmin will die. (Except for the blues) Frigate Orpheon is also another bad stage for Olimar.

Will post some more tips when I think of them and again, I don't have tourney experience so take this with a grain of salt =P

 

[TOPIX]

I think Nairing (and/or jumping over them) tossed Pikmin and coming in at an angle with Fair and then following up is a good approach to this mu. Lagging Bairs off Pikmin can do wonders as well, especially lagging Dairs that can set Olimar up for a variety of setups. I think the main concern we should have is being wary of those smash attacks, specifically his Fsmash and Usmash (which is why I suggest Marth'ing it and going in at an angle with Fair). If you dont approach carefully, I don't I have to tell anyone how easily Olimar that pile on damage within one punish. Although I say avoid letting Pikmin on to you if possible, they can also be used to your advantage to lag all of his aerials. There is also one Pikmin in particular that we all should be wary of aside from Purple, is yellow. Especially since he can pry his way and outprioritize all of main means to approach. And then of course be careful of tossed purple pikmin and their usmash, since they can generally disrupt our recovery if we don't recover smart.

Forgot to mention that Olimar is really suceptible to gimps offstage from us as well. Meaning if you have an opportunity, Dair the *****. My opinion overall on this mu is kinda torn between (0) and (-1), but on a ratio scale I'd give this mu a (53:47), slightly in Olimar's favor.

 

[baconator25]

I have some experience with Ness vs Olimar. Nair and PK Fire are our best friends in this match up. Our nair makes his Pikmin go boom and PK Fire sets up an effective wall that Olimar can't really do much against other than throw reds out. When we try to approach, Olimar can grab, smash (depending on our angle of approach) or shield. I know if we approach from the air, our dair will beat his upsmash. I'm actually not sure what to think of using fair as an approaching tool in this match up.

I feel we do pretty well against Olimar offstage. I like doing drop-down nairs if I think he's going to uair me as I'm hanging on the ledge, otherwise, shooting PK Fire's downward from the ledge works.

As for stages, I'd usually ban Yoshi's or Castle Siege against Olimar. And counterpick either Delfino or Halberd (I don't think Halberd really gives us a huge advantage in this match up, but it's kind of just my go-to counterpick when I don't know where else to go.) I can't really give great explanations for these... it's just what I do.

I wish I had more to say about this, but I don't feel I've played enough good Olimars to really give a valid opinion on the more intricate parts of the match up.

 

[PKNintendo]

Haven't played in years, but what the ****, here are my 2 cents.

-Approaching Olimar is basically the hardest thing in this matchup. Getting big damage on him is hard as result.
-Get that ******* into the air and gimp the ever loving **** out of him.
-If he throws a Pikmin onto you, kill it immediately or you'll die if you try to recover with PKT2.

 

[Asa]

can give some insight being an oli main..


pkfire isn't as good as some make it out to be. if olimar is playhing the mu wrong and throwing out way more pikmin than he should, then it can be effective. but if olimar doesn't side-b as much, pkf goes back to being bad. it's good for landings and edgeguarding tho.

pikmin-lagged attacks are actually something that we look out for and try to generate for easier punishes.

nair is very good in the mu since it gets pikmin off ness's entire body, it beats usmash, and can be effective in edgeguarding.

dair is kinda ****ty for gimping due to whistle but if you get a read on a jump or w/e then it can be cute. ness's other aerials are better.

don't land on top of olimar cuz uair > everything ness has. land away with a fair or a nair.

grab is good. grab a lot. throw him offstage or use it to get him in the air.


blue bthrow isn't as good of a kill move as some may think. purple uthrow is much better. blue bthrow really shouldn't kill until high percents if you know how to DI. the kill strenght for throws is

purple uthrow (kills around 120%) > blue uthrow(kills around 140) > blue bthrow/fthrow(kills around 150, mainly used for damage anyway, so may be stale.) > yellow uthrow (kills around 180%) > red uthrow (won't kill till like 250 lol. )





also when you get olimar in the air focus on getting his landings and forcing him to the edge. some ppl may get super greedy once he's in the air, then overcommit and let him land, turning a good position into a ****ty one.

also keep in mind that olimar has no grab armor so if you're close and you think he'll grab just jab him or ftilt or w/e.


and finally... frigate isn't a bad olimar stage and delfino is one of our best. it's kinda an '08 mentality to think that because theres water, it's a good cp against olimar XD. that stage will give us a full line of purples so fast you won't know what you hit you. (EDIT: That being said, delfino is a solid pick against olimar if you're not too bothered with extra purples. The potential spike opportunities can tip the tides in your favor, but the same can be said for olimar. basically everything he can do on that stage you can do as well.) i'd suggest a small stage that doesn't have many platforms, aka smashville. brinstar, of course is probably the best cp in that mu.

frigate CAN work sometimes, but keep in mind there is a greater incidence of purple and yellow plucks, the first transformation can give you as many problems as it does olimar, and the second phase is godlike for olimar.

PS2 (arguably olimars worst stage), Brinstar/RC, and Smashville would be the best places to go.