Ness v. Zelda tips?

Mr Saturn Fanboy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
76
Location
Massachusetts
#1
So when I first started playing, I had a lot of trouble with nayru's love spam. I've since gotten the timing down. However, in the past few matches with Zelda I've had, they have all gone the same way.

Nearly uncharged down special (I think its called Phantom Slash), which i counter by jumping over or shielding, but then I either get grabbed or up smashed, then once that launches me offstage, Down specials out the wazoo.

If i grab the ledge, I end up getting hit with a dash attack when i come back up, sending me back offstage. If I PK Rocket, I either get a face of Din's Fire(?) or aerals. If I air dodge through dowm special, I end up getting grabbed again. PK Fire just leads back into the aerals, and if I do manage to get back onstage unpunished, Zelda usually jumps and teleports behind me to start the down special cycle all over again.

On a few of these matches, I managed to reflect the slash, which made things a lot easier: I just can't get the timing down on the reflect. and of course if im in the air, I have no reflect. Any Zelda's here or others who have overcome this who can give me any advice on this?

TL;DR My Ness has a hard time getting past Zelda's down special while in air. When I do, I find it hard to land my hits/not get relaunched. Any advice?
 

SoniCraft

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
478
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NNID
Sonicraft98
#2
Watch FOW vs Ven on the SmashStudios YouTube channel. There are tons of vods of Ven (Zelda) getting bodied by FOW's ness. You should be able to pick up a few tips from there.
 

StoicPhantom

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
408
#3
I haven't played as Ness much, so I don't know how accurate this will be, but I'll do my best to answer.

For spacing, you'll want to be just outside of Zelda's defensive options(Nayru, jab, D-Tilt, Up-Tilt). That way you'll be close enough she can't safely use Phantom, but far enough you won't be walled by her defensive options. If you can stay in that area, Ness's Fair isn't something Zelda can deal with very easy and she is easily comboed with it. Watch for her Fsmash and dash attack/grab, plus any aerials and you should be able to outplay her at that distance. Ness is much faster and has greater disjoints and less risk on his moves, so he should win in an outright close range battle. If she starts to charge Phantom, use Fair to shut it down. If either Zelda or Phantom is hit while charging, it will instantly collapse and she will be vulnerable.

If you happen to get knocked away, don't panic and watch carefully for when she is going to release it. If you are at a great distance, she will need to use the later charges to hit you(scoop slash). The hitbox(sword) travels low and then swings upwards. Ness is small enough that he can DI into and over the Phantom and avoid the sword, while gaining ground on Zelda. So long as you avoid the sword, the rest of the Phantom is harmless, just be sure to not let the body push you back. Just be careful about being too aggressive in getting back or she will fire off an overhead slash and that is a very good anti-air. Wait a little and see if you can make her do the scoop slash instead.

I would avoid using Ness's projectiles, outside of PK Fire. They are generally too laggy to use and she can Up-B punish them pretty easily. The only exceptions are when Zelda is close to the ceiling and too far to hit you with Up-B and when she is recovering low. Then you can use the appropriate projectiles for those situations. Use aerial PK Fires, those are difficult to reflect and Nayru has a lot of endlag that you can punish. If Zelda is charging Phantom at mid-range, you should be able to sneak in a PK Fire and disrupt the Phantom charge.

For edgeguarding and juggling, she is very light and her disadvantage is one of the worst in the game. Fair as previously mentioned is very good at comboing her and dragging her offstage. Her recovery isn't easy to edgeguard, so it is probably better to set a ledge trap instead. I have seen Ness hang his yo-yo(Up-smash?) over the ledge and since Zelda's recovery needs to snap to it, it can work as a good edgeguard. I can't guarantee a successful stock, but it will make her life difficult and rack up some nice damage. Just be sure to do it when she is recovering low, lest she Up-B into you. Otherwise watch for Up-B and be ready to shield it and try to read her getup options.

Zelda is very light and can die at sub 100 percents. Fsmash and back throw will do it pretty easily and Up-air and the other smashes are online around 120(I think). Ness has quick and safe KO options, Zelda does not. You can win through a war of attrition, so be patient and wait for openings. PK Fire -> back throw is your scariest option and Zelda can't afford to be hit by that at around 80-100. If she is too spammy with the Phantom, that is your cue to hit her with it and throw her for the kill. If not that, Up-air is still pretty quick and can duck under her Nair.

Overall, you need to find a balance between being too aggressive and too passive. Too aggressive and she will wall you out with her defensive options. Too passive and Phantom will wall you out. Keep that distance I mentioned above and pressure her with Fair. Once you get her in disadvantage, make sure she doesn't escape it, without taking massive damage. Her range is short and linear for a lot of attacks, so use Fair to beat them and space around the hitboxs and hit her blind spots. She KOs easy and you have safe KO options, so don't be aggressive or fish and wait for an opening.

Hopefully that answered everything accurately, but feel free to ask more questions, if I didn't adequately answer.
 

Yaotl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
10
Location
Austin, Texas
3DS FC
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#5
User was warned for this post
So when I first started playing, I had a lot of trouble with nayru's love spam. I've since gotten the timing down. However, in the past few matches with Zelda I've had, they have all gone the same way.

Nearly uncharged down special (I think its called Phantom Slash), which i counter by jumping over or shielding, but then I either get grabbed or up smashed, then once that launches me offstage, Down specials out the wazoo.

If i grab the ledge, I end up getting hit with a dash attack when i come back up, sending me back offstage. If I PK Rocket, I either get a face of Din's Fire(?) or aerals. If I air dodge through dowm special, I end up getting grabbed again. PK Fire just leads back into the aerals, and if I do manage to get back onstage unpunished, Zelda usually jumps and teleports behind me to start the down special cycle all over again.

On a few of these matches, I managed to reflect the slash, which made things a lot easier: I just can't get the timing down on the reflect. and of course if im in the air, I have no reflect. Any Zelda's here or others who have overcome this who can give me any advice on this?

TL;DR My Ness has a hard time getting past Zelda's down special while in air. When I do, I find it hard to land my hits/not get relaunched. Any advice?
why are you asking for tips to counter a certain character on their page, <content redacted> :chrono:
 
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