Ness Possibilities

[omiz144]

First let me start off by saying that I have never played Earthbound or any other MOTHER game for that matter. When Lucas was announced, and his moveset partially revealed, we all guessed that this meant Ness deconfirmed.

I've gotten to thinking and I've been wondering why Sakurai would choose Ness to replace out of all the other options. (Jigglypuff )

Is there even a reason? Think about it. What possible reasoning could Sakurai have. Here's what I came up with.

1. With Lucas' popularity on his poll, Sakurai attempted to make another MOTHER moveset. When he couldn't, he decided to alter Ness' a tiny bit, and give it to Lucas. Sakurai then proceeded to ditch Ness.
2. Sakurai grew tired of Ness and decided that Lucas is a better representative of the MOTHER series.
3. Sakurai somehow lost the rights to use Ness? (Not likely) And MOTHER's creator instead, only let him use Lucas.

Honestly, these are not very good reasons to take out a character that has been there since the very beginning.

Here are some possible ways Ness may return.

1. As a Trophy
2. As a Sticker
3. As an Assist Trophy
4. With a completely new moveset. Sakurai could have realized that Ness' moveset does not fit the character, so opted to give it to Lucas in order to make a new one for Ness
5. As a "Luigi-Clone"

All in all, it is hard to believe that Sakurai would just ditch Ness like that. I believe he has a better shot then you all think of returning as playable.

Discuss.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Sakurai has been wanting to replace Ness since Melee dude. Mother 3 got delayed then, so he just put Ness in Melee. As for Brawl, Ness chances are really slim

 

[omiz144]

Sakurai has been wanting to replace Ness since Melee dude. Mother 3 got delayed then, so he just put Ness in Melee. As for Brawl, Ness chances are really slim

Could you please give me a source?

 

[The Noob Legend]

He doesn't have a source...

It's called "assuming"

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

I'll have to look for it. Although it does say that on Smash Wiki, and it appears to be obvious if you look at Lucas.

He doesn't have a source...

It's called "assuming"

Even those that support Ness today, knows this FACT

 

[NessOnett]

He is gonna come back as PC if anything(and i for one am betting on it), Sakurai wouldn't degrade him by making him a lowly AT. Sakurai may have been planning to replace him with Lucas for melee, but that was 6 years ago. Since then he has become very popular because he was included in melee, ans Sakurai wants this to be a game for the fans. The fans want Ness, so Sakurai would be a fool not to include him.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

He is gonna come back as PC if anything(and i for one am betting on it), Sakurai wouldn't degrade him by making him a lowly AT. Sakurai may have been planning to replace him with Lucas for melee, but that was 6 years ago. Since then he has become very popular because he was included in melee, ans Sakurai wants this to be a game for the fans. The fans want Ness, so Sakurai would be a fool not to include him.

That's your opinion. Others consider Lucas, a hatless Ness. Sure it was 6 years ago, when Mother 3 got delayed. But did Mother 3 get delayed now? No it didn't.

 

[shinodude]

I prefer lucas over ness myself but I would find it rather depressing to take him out and pray if hes not a charecter they make him a sexy AT


my memory is allitle fuzzy since i havnt slept in 24 hours but I think I recall sombody saying that the moves ness had in meele wernt orginally his, or mabey that was lucas......

so if he does come back I pray they give him a nice new moveset



ps. if jigglypuff gets booted ima be pissed cause she was my fav charecter to use in melee

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

He doesn't have a source...

It's called "assuming"

Excuse you.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0717/index.html

Right there, on Ness's profile, he states he wanted to use the main character from Mother 3 instead.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

I prefer lucas over ness myself but I would find it rather depressing to take him out and pray if hes not a charecter they make him a sexy AT


my memory is allitle fuzzy since i havnt slept in 24 hours but I think I recall sombody saying that the moves ness had in meele wernt orginally his, or mabey that was lucas......

so if he does come back I pray they give him a nice new moveset



ps. if jigglypuff gets booted ima be pissed cause she was my fav charecter to use in melee

I hear that Ness only has 2 moves different from Lucas. Also remember that they come from the same family of PK users.

 

[NessOnett]

That's your opinion. Others consider Lucas, a hatless Ness. Sure it was 6 years ago, when Mother 3 got delayed. But did Mother 3 get delayed now? No it didn't.

It isn't my opinion, it is plain fact. Fans like Ness. I am not saying he should be in instead of Lucas, i am simply saying that he should be in.(it is possible to have multiple representation from the mother series).

as for the rest of your post, poorly gramaticized so couldn't tell exactly what you meant.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Could you please give me a source?

It is true, Sakurai was hoping to replace Ness with Lucas back in Melee, but due to Earthbound 64 (what would then have been Mother 3) being taken off the drawing board and having severe work done to it, he didn't replace Ness, as Lucas technically didn't exist.

However, Sakurai has said nothing regarding Ness in Brawl, and considering he was in both SSB64 and Melee, as well as the fact that New Pork City is the one place in Mother 3 that Ness actually appears...



...anyhoo, if Ness doesn't return as a separate character, I can see him being a Classic-Wario style alternate costume for Lucas at the very least...


...Also, should Ness return as a separate character, I can easily see his Final Smash either being PK Special (with Ness vanishing and appearing in the foreground on an Earthbound style menu as the stage gets rocked by the classic Atarii looking PK Special), OR PK Teleport, with Ness trapping his enemies and pummeling them midair while the background wildly warps around, OR The Soundstone. Essentially, Ness would go up to someone (short range on this particular attack), go for a swing, and upon getting someone in range, you'd suddenly see the background flash into the eight sanctuaries, energy pouring into Ness from them. Upon the eighth sanctuary being shown, Ness would impact his enemy with the classic SMAAAAAAASH!!!! bubble appearing. Basic one-hit K.O.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

It isn't my opinion, it is plain fact. Fans like Ness. I am not saying he should be in instead of Lucas, i am simply saying that he should be in.(it is possible to have multiple representation from the mother series).

as for the rest of your post, poorly gramaticized so couldn't tell exactly what you meant.

Why is it poor grammer, b/c I forgot a comma? Irrelevant. Ness got nerfed in Melee and I dont recall that much popularity. I know he got popular from being in Smash, but Melee messed over him. Ness's main competition now would be Claus. Now tell me who you think will win that?

 

[bballstar23]

I think Sakurai just wanted to replace Ness with the most recent Mother representative, who happens to be Lucas. It just makes sense since Ness' moves weren't even his in Earthbound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP7DqAC7Ne0

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

It isn't my opinion, it is plain fact. Fans like Ness. I am not saying he should be in instead of Lucas, i am simply saying that he should be in.(it is possible to have multiple representation from the mother series).

as for the rest of your post, poorly gramaticized so couldn't tell exactly what you meant.

Mother 3 sold better than the other 2 Mother games. Fans want Lucas.

 

[vesperview]

*facepalm*

Let it go already and close this thread NOW!

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

This is just going to turn into another "Ness is out...." thread.

 

[axemangx]

Sakurai hates removing characters. Wait. Sales matter? How do you bring that in the frey?


All we have for evidence is Sakurai constantly mentioning Ness and Ness getting a Luigified Special Moveset.


Seriously. Do you realize if they simply change Ness' Specials to possibly have the same NAMES but different effects. For instance. PK Flash and Thunder would stay, PK Fire -> Can be a fire wave of some sort. Down-B not so sure.


I know Ness has little chance, but I'm just saying how he could be changed if so.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Sakurai hates removing characters. Wait. Sales matter? How do you bring that in the frey?


All we have for evidence is Sakurai constantly mentioning Ness and Ness getting a Luigified Special Moveset.


Seriously. Do you realize if they simply change Ness' Specials to possibly have the same NAMES but different effects. For instance. PK Flash and Thunder would stay, PK Fire -> Can be a fire wave of some sort. Down-B not so sure.


I know Ness has little chance, but I'm just saying how he could be changed if so.

This matter has been discussed in the other thread already. Where's your source for the Sakurai statement. I remember him having a journal entry saying not all vets will be returning. So why doesn't he like removing characters?

 

[Algus Underdunk]

By the bye Omiz144, you really, really should try out Earthbound for the SNES. I'm certain you can acquire it online through *cough* perfectly legal means *cough*

It really is a fine game, especially if you're fond of old school RPGs.

 

[Kazydai]

I sent a letter to Youko with some good points in it, but he already hates Ness, so he probably didn't read it. I'll post it here.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

I sent a letter to Youko with some good points in it, but he already hates Ness, so he probably didn't read it. I'll post it here.

I'd hate to find out that some of those good points have already mentioned in the other thread.

 

[vesperview]

Can we stop bumping this? We don't want it to get out of hand like the other ones, specially when the OP is as usual, a pseudo Ness fan who hasn't played Ness's game, what a surprise.

 

[Kazydai]

I'd hate to find out that some of those good points have already mentioned in the other thread.

Me, too, considering that I'm human and can't possibly look at every thread with Ness stuff in it. Just read it if you want, don't if you don't.

 

[Kazydai]

Can we stop bumping this? We don't want it to get out of hand like the other ones, specially when the OP is as usual, a pseudo Ness fan who hasn't played Ness's game, what a surprise.

You're totally right. I hate when there is support for a character, and then all of the people who hate that character spam the thread until it gets closed. IF you don't like that character don't pick them. It's as simple as that. Now if Sora was in on the other hand...God help us...O_o

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Can we stop bumping this? We don't want it to get out of hand like the other ones, specially when the OP is as usual, a pseudo Ness fan who hasn't played Ness's game, what a surprise.

What's your opinion on a real fan of Ness who played and enjoyed Earthbound long before SSB64 came out, and played Mother 3 long before Lucas was confirmed, and is equally excited at the idea of both Lucas and Ness being playable?

 

[vesperview]

You're totally right. I hate when there is support for a character, and then all of the people who hate that character spam the thread until it gets closed. IF you don't like that character don't pick them. It's as simple as that. Now if Sora was in on the other hand...God help us...O_o

No, I said let's stop bumping this, because it's as usual, just another stupid thread about how Ness should only return to keep a few people happy.

What's your opinion on a real fan of Ness who played and enjoyed Earthbound long before SSB64 came out, and played Mother 3 long before Lucas was confirmed, and is equally excited at the idea of both Lucas and Ness being playable?

That would be ok, but those kinds of people are practically non existant, there's few people here who have actually played the three games.

 

[Kazydai]

Letter to Youko

Here's the letter I sent to Youko:

Hello, Youko.

I’m a member of Smash World Forums and my screen name is Kazydai. Recently I have come across your “Show Me Your News” podcasts on iTunes. I was always one to assume that podcasts were stupid, but I checked yours out and I really like it. Just recently, though, I listened to Episode 19, that discusses Fox’s Misfortune, Gray Fox, and Lucas’ Special Moves, among other things. While I was listening, I heard you guys talking about how Ness was not going to be in Brawl. I must say that I have to disagree, but please, hear me out. I’m a fan of your show, so I would send you this to give you some n00b banter and such.

“OMG!!11!! N3SS IS IN!!!one11 WTF R U T4LKIN’ AB0UT!!11shiftone!!”

Yeah, that’s not my style. I wanted to talk to you about how I think that Ness might be in, but I use logic, and other contextual clues to back up my theory. Of course, yes, it’s a theory. Or a “theocracy.”

Now to my points…

I really do think that Ness has an honest chance of being in the game. Think about it this way. None of the 4 original secret characters from Smash 64 have been directly revealed, although hinted at. For example, Captain Falcon with Samurai Goroh, or the speculation of a Luigi’s Mansion stage, just to name a few speculations. Ness has just as good of a chance as Luigi, Captain Falcon, and Jigglypuff, who all have good odds of being in. Besides, why limit a franchise to only 1 character when there are multiple legitimate ones that can represent it. The Mother series already gets the short end of the stick anyway. Although Ness and Lucas are from the same franchise, they were from two different games that had their fair share of similarities and differences. Now, I'm not saying that Ness is in. I'm saying that he has as good a chance as anyone else. The Lucas updates don't mean anything regarding Ness’ personal status. And I'm not dissing Lucas. I like Lucas.

I really don’t think that people can start assuming they can just deconfirm Ness for the rest of us, but people who don’t support Ness have just as much freedom of speech and opinion as the ones who do support Ness. As far we all know, that "up until now" comment could mean that Ness was the only Mother representative up until now, and yes, there’s a high possibility that I’m wrong. But, I strongly believe that comment can be interpreted so many ways that's it's almost pointless to jump to the many possible conclusions.

I believe that until it's directly stated on the Dojo, or until the game comes out, nobody knows anything 100%. To all the people who say Ness is out, we'll really just have to wait and see. I like Ness. I main him. But, Brawl is a new game. If he's out, he's out, and everyone will just have to deal with it. But, like I said, until it's directly said on the Dojo, we'll all just have to wait' til February 10th.

Ok, I'm done.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope that we can continue to share ideas.

Kazydai

PS. Cool show, dude.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

That would be ok, but those kinds of people are practically non existant, there's few people here who have actually played the three games.

I sir, would be one of those people.

I've played and completed Mother 1 (both GBA reissue, and the Earthbound 0 rip), Earthbound as it appeared originally on the SNES, then again on the GBA reissue, and Mother 3 several times on GBA.

And suffice to say, yes, I'm eager to see both Ness and Lucas playable in Brawl.

I already know that Duster from Mother 3 is an Assist Trophy in Brawl, and that the Franklin Badge and Mr.Saturn both return...

 

[NessOnett]

Mother 3 sold better than the other 2 Mother games. Fans want Lucas.

Fans want them both, it is possible to have them both(and claus too, albeit unlikely). So what if they are both(all) PK users? Link and Pit are both bow users, should one of them get cut because they share a weapon?

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Yup, just as I suspected. Already been discussed

 

[Kazydai]

That would be ok, but those kinds of people are practically non existant, there's few people here who have actually played the three games.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've only played the first two. I know what you guys mean, though. There are soo many people who want Ness, or who want Lucas over Ness, and they don't know anything about Ness or Lucas, or have played their games. They're just goin off of coolness factor.

People say that Lucas is better than Ness because he has a final smash. THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!

You know what? Screw it all and put Ninten in...>_<

 

[PrettyGoodYear]

Fans want them both, it is possible to have them both(and claus too, albeit unlikely). So what if they are both(all) PK users? Link and Pit are both bow users, should one of them get cut because they share a weapon?

I never said anything about them being PK users... WTF?

 

[vesperview]

Yup, just as I suspected. Already been discussed

There's nothing we can say here that hasn't been discussed.

 

[Kazydai]

Yup, just as I suspected. Already been discussed

Hey, you win some, you lose some. Althought it has already been discussed, they are still good points that apply to ALL FOUR of the original secrets, NESS just being one of them.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Fans want them both, it is possible to have them both(and claus too, albeit unlikely). So what if they are both(all) PK users? Link and Pit are both bow users, should one of them get cut because they share a weapon?

Pit and Link are both from 2 different series of which they have different styles and powers. The odds are against Ness and seeing as there'd most likely be one more rep, it would go to Claus.

 

[Kazydai]

Ness and Lucas have the same B moves, but their A moves, which are the general moveset, are totally different. Is that enough to call them complete clones? It's a Mario-Luigi thing, if anything.

 

[vesperview]

Ness and Lucas have the same B moves, but their A moves, which are the general moveset, are totally different. Is that enough to call them complete clones? It's a Mario-Luigi thing, if anything.

Totally different? He has a pole that works the same way as the bat, they're similar enough to be redundant.

 

[NessOnett]

I hear that Ness only has 2 moves different from Lucas. Also remember that they come from the same family of PK users.

I never said anything about them being PK users... WTF?

i was referring to meta-sonic's post, not yours

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Hey, you win some, you lose some. Althought it has already been discussed, they are still good points that apply to ALL FOUR of the original secrets, NESS just being one of them.

One thing that doesn't apply to all 4, Sakurai never once mentioned wanting to replace the other 3, but he did with Ness.