NESSBOUNDER
Smash Master
Ok, so I decided to test this death-grab on Ness and Lucas for each character, just so we know the actual scope of the situation.
I did these tests in training mode with a 1/4 speed with each character, using two controllers. I would first have the opponent grab Ness/Lucas and pummel, then I would hold sheild as Ness/Lucas with my pinkie, and control the other character normally.
If Ness/Lucas had time to put up any part of their sheild, it means that they are able to spot-dodge an incoming grab or attack.
Keep in mind that for a character who can't infinite grab, the chain grab actually does very little damage and progresses across the stage rather quickly for most of them. On most tournament-legal stages, you will eventually fall off the edge. If you break out of each grab as fast as you can, you will take the minimum amount of damage. It's still bad, but it's still something.
So I'll list this in order of character then: This is the worst that each character can do to you after you break out of their grab.
All tests were performed on Ness, by the way.
MARIO: Ftilt
Not much to see here. An Ftilt to the face isn't so bad at all, especially coming from Mario. His Fsmash and Dsmash are too slow and don't reach far enough to hit you.
Verdict: safe
DK: infinite
DK has an infinite with his cargo hold.
Verdict: hopeless
Link/Toon Link: down smash
Link and Toon Link's grabs are too slow for them to get you again before you can spot dodge. The best they can do is hit with a down smash. It's a strong KO move, so it's still not very nice, but you won't be losing matches solely because of this.
Verdict: safe
Samus: dtilt
Same deal as the Links, except with down tilt instead. It's a hefty attack for Samus, but once again, not too bad either.
Verdict: safe
Zero Suit Samus: ftilt
Not bad at all, really
Verdioct: safe
Kirby/Jigglypuff: nothing
You slide very far away from Kirby and Jigglypuff for some reason. They can't run and grab you again fast enough to get a chain grab going either, and can't reach you with any attacks.
Verdict: safe
Fox: running grab, up smash
Fox can grab you again after the break-out, and even worse, he can lead into an up smash when it's time to KO, making for hideous damage and early KOs from a single grab. Try to stay on platforms and avoid Final Destination if you can.
Verdict: unsafe
Pikachu: running grab, ftilt
Hey, at least he can't combo into up smash, right? What's more, Pikachu slides very far when he does a running grab, meaning you'll reach the edge of the stage in record time. One of the better match ups.
Verdict: safe
Marth: infinate
Broken nonsense.
Verdict: hopeless
Game & Watch: oil panic
How ironic...
Verdict: safe
Luigi: nothing
Lucky his Fsmash is too slow to combo from a break.
Verdict: safe
Diddy: running grab, dtilt
same boat as Pikachu, but doesn't slide as far.
Verdict: safe
Zelda: jump break
For some reason, it's easy to jump break Zelda's grab. However, if you don't jump break, she can follow up with an Ftilt, which isn't TOO deadly.
Verdict: safe
Shiek: running grab, down smash
Dammit, even in Brawl, Sheik can still chain grab Ness. Good thing she can't KO too well with her down smash...
Verdict: risky
Pit: Fsmash
Not too bad, not too good either since it happens to be his best KO move.
Verdict: risky
Metaknight: running grab, ftilt, downsmash
He slides very far when he grabs from a run, but he can follow up with either a very damaging attack, or one of his best KO moves. He can even attempt to trip you with Dtilt if he wants. Yuck...
Verdict: risky
Falco: running up smash (or hit cancel)
Eww...but still, at least he can't chain grab with this.
Verdict: risky
Charizard: infinite
Curses on that long neck of yours, Charizard!
Verdict: hopeless
Squirtle: infinite (almost)
Squirtle can just take half a step forwards and grab you again because of his abnormally good grab range, coupled by the fact that he moves forward a bit in his shell when you break out of his grasp.
Verdict: hopeless
Ivysaur: infinite
Just keep away from Pokemon Trainer...really.
Verdict: hopeless
Ike: AAA combo
Not that bad at all.
Verdict: safe
Snake: infinite
broken ****e. Leads into Ftilt when he's done with you.
Verdict: hopeless
Peach: running grab, Ftilt
Same kind of deal as Diddy Kong. Bearable, but still kind of unfair. At least it's not a magic KO move.
Verdict: safe
Yoshi: jump break
Yoshi's grab always has a jump break out. Probably one of the safest characters to fight as Ness/Lucas. Too bad he's considered low tier and nobody plays him. -_-
Verdict: safe
Ganon: jump break
I may need to test this more, but it seems quite easy to jump break out of Ganon's grab. For now, I'll say this is safe.
Verdict: safe
Ice Climbers: FFFFFFFFF!
FFFFFFFF!
Verdict: FFFFFPFFF!
Dedede: nothing (possibly down tilt)
I was very surprised by this too. For some reason, Dedede's grab DOESN'T reach Ness after he breaks out of the hold...and a running grab is too slow. It's strange, but try as I might, I just couldn't get Dedede to grab Ness during the helpless animation.
Verdict: safe (however, you still have his other chain grab to contend with).
Wolf: down smash
his best KO move, but still, not a chain grab.
Verdict: safe
Lucario: Ftilt
I wouldn't expect any less from the honorable Lucario. Always ready to fight fair and square, for the sake of a good match.
Verdict: safe
Ness: running grab
Slides a lot. Ness dittoes just got way more boring. It'll hit the edge soon enough, but back throw is a solid KO move.
Verdict: safe
Sonic: running grab, ftilt
Sonic's running grab has hardly any slide at all, making this almost an infinite. Either way, you'll take a lot of damage before he reaches the edge.
Verdict: unsafe
Bowser: infinite (almost.)
Bowser has next to NO slide at all on his running grab, making this pretty much an infinite. Seeing as he can then belt you with Ftilt, which is a pretty good KO move, I'd say this is a bleak match up.
Verdict: hopeless
Wario: infinite (almost)
Wario is exactly the same as squirtle in that he just needs to take a half-step and he can catch you with a standing grab, making this another almost-infinite. He can't combo into anything from it, but still, it's Wario. It's not like he's Sonic and has difficult KO moves or anything.
Verdict: hopeless
Olimar: Fsmash, standing grab if his previous grab was a running grab.
Olimar's weird in that he can grab you twice if his first grab was a running grab. He can't chain grab you, luckily enough, but he can hit you with his Fsmash, which hurts like heck. Either way, Olimar is excellent at grabbing, so this will be a troublesome match up no matter how you view it.
Verdict: unsafe
ROB: running grab, Ftilt, Dtilt
He sees to slide a fair bit on his running grab, but not as much as Pikachu. His follow-ups aren't too bad either. Dtilt can trip you though.
Verdict: safe
Falcon: Dtilt
The good Captain is too manly to use cheese tactics like this.
Verdict: safe
Lucas: infinite
Well gosh darn. Lucas dittoes just got even more boring than Ness dittoes. Whoever gets the first grab wins, and Lucas now has a glaring advantage over Ness. Bravo Sakurai, I hope you're pleased with yourself...
Verdict: hopeless.
>:-(
*goes back to making his new Lucario animated banner.*
By the way, I thought I'd add that the timing to get a perfect running grab for most of the characters who can chain throw this way is actually VERY strict. If you press Z even just a fraction of a second too late after starting the dash, you'll give Ness or Lucas a chance to spot dodge. NO ROLLING. Spot dodge is the fastest form of evasion available for them in this situation.
I did these tests in training mode with a 1/4 speed with each character, using two controllers. I would first have the opponent grab Ness/Lucas and pummel, then I would hold sheild as Ness/Lucas with my pinkie, and control the other character normally.
If Ness/Lucas had time to put up any part of their sheild, it means that they are able to spot-dodge an incoming grab or attack.
Keep in mind that for a character who can't infinite grab, the chain grab actually does very little damage and progresses across the stage rather quickly for most of them. On most tournament-legal stages, you will eventually fall off the edge. If you break out of each grab as fast as you can, you will take the minimum amount of damage. It's still bad, but it's still something.
So I'll list this in order of character then: This is the worst that each character can do to you after you break out of their grab.
All tests were performed on Ness, by the way.
MARIO: Ftilt
Not much to see here. An Ftilt to the face isn't so bad at all, especially coming from Mario. His Fsmash and Dsmash are too slow and don't reach far enough to hit you.
Verdict: safe
DK: infinite
DK has an infinite with his cargo hold.
Verdict: hopeless
Link/Toon Link: down smash
Link and Toon Link's grabs are too slow for them to get you again before you can spot dodge. The best they can do is hit with a down smash. It's a strong KO move, so it's still not very nice, but you won't be losing matches solely because of this.
Verdict: safe
Samus: dtilt
Same deal as the Links, except with down tilt instead. It's a hefty attack for Samus, but once again, not too bad either.
Verdict: safe
Zero Suit Samus: ftilt
Not bad at all, really
Verdioct: safe
Kirby/Jigglypuff: nothing
You slide very far away from Kirby and Jigglypuff for some reason. They can't run and grab you again fast enough to get a chain grab going either, and can't reach you with any attacks.
Verdict: safe
Fox: running grab, up smash
Fox can grab you again after the break-out, and even worse, he can lead into an up smash when it's time to KO, making for hideous damage and early KOs from a single grab. Try to stay on platforms and avoid Final Destination if you can.
Verdict: unsafe
Pikachu: running grab, ftilt
Hey, at least he can't combo into up smash, right? What's more, Pikachu slides very far when he does a running grab, meaning you'll reach the edge of the stage in record time. One of the better match ups.
Verdict: safe
Marth: infinate
Broken nonsense.
Verdict: hopeless
Game & Watch: oil panic
How ironic...
Verdict: safe
Luigi: nothing
Lucky his Fsmash is too slow to combo from a break.
Verdict: safe
Diddy: running grab, dtilt
same boat as Pikachu, but doesn't slide as far.
Verdict: safe
Zelda: jump break
For some reason, it's easy to jump break Zelda's grab. However, if you don't jump break, she can follow up with an Ftilt, which isn't TOO deadly.
Verdict: safe
Shiek: running grab, down smash
Dammit, even in Brawl, Sheik can still chain grab Ness. Good thing she can't KO too well with her down smash...
Verdict: risky
Pit: Fsmash
Not too bad, not too good either since it happens to be his best KO move.
Verdict: risky
Metaknight: running grab, ftilt, downsmash
He slides very far when he grabs from a run, but he can follow up with either a very damaging attack, or one of his best KO moves. He can even attempt to trip you with Dtilt if he wants. Yuck...
Verdict: risky
Falco: running up smash (or hit cancel)
Eww...but still, at least he can't chain grab with this.
Verdict: risky
Charizard: infinite
Curses on that long neck of yours, Charizard!
Verdict: hopeless
Squirtle: infinite (almost)
Squirtle can just take half a step forwards and grab you again because of his abnormally good grab range, coupled by the fact that he moves forward a bit in his shell when you break out of his grasp.
Verdict: hopeless
Ivysaur: infinite
Just keep away from Pokemon Trainer...really.
Verdict: hopeless
Ike: AAA combo
Not that bad at all.
Verdict: safe
Snake: infinite
broken ****e. Leads into Ftilt when he's done with you.
Verdict: hopeless
Peach: running grab, Ftilt
Same kind of deal as Diddy Kong. Bearable, but still kind of unfair. At least it's not a magic KO move.
Verdict: safe
Yoshi: jump break
Yoshi's grab always has a jump break out. Probably one of the safest characters to fight as Ness/Lucas. Too bad he's considered low tier and nobody plays him. -_-
Verdict: safe
Ganon: jump break
I may need to test this more, but it seems quite easy to jump break out of Ganon's grab. For now, I'll say this is safe.
Verdict: safe
Ice Climbers: FFFFFFFFF!
FFFFFFFF!
Verdict: FFFFFPFFF!
Dedede: nothing (possibly down tilt)
I was very surprised by this too. For some reason, Dedede's grab DOESN'T reach Ness after he breaks out of the hold...and a running grab is too slow. It's strange, but try as I might, I just couldn't get Dedede to grab Ness during the helpless animation.
Verdict: safe (however, you still have his other chain grab to contend with).
Wolf: down smash
his best KO move, but still, not a chain grab.
Verdict: safe
Lucario: Ftilt
I wouldn't expect any less from the honorable Lucario. Always ready to fight fair and square, for the sake of a good match.
Verdict: safe
Ness: running grab
Slides a lot. Ness dittoes just got way more boring. It'll hit the edge soon enough, but back throw is a solid KO move.
Verdict: safe
Sonic: running grab, ftilt
Sonic's running grab has hardly any slide at all, making this almost an infinite. Either way, you'll take a lot of damage before he reaches the edge.
Verdict: unsafe
Bowser: infinite (almost.)
Bowser has next to NO slide at all on his running grab, making this pretty much an infinite. Seeing as he can then belt you with Ftilt, which is a pretty good KO move, I'd say this is a bleak match up.
Verdict: hopeless
Wario: infinite (almost)
Wario is exactly the same as squirtle in that he just needs to take a half-step and he can catch you with a standing grab, making this another almost-infinite. He can't combo into anything from it, but still, it's Wario. It's not like he's Sonic and has difficult KO moves or anything.
Verdict: hopeless
Olimar: Fsmash, standing grab if his previous grab was a running grab.
Olimar's weird in that he can grab you twice if his first grab was a running grab. He can't chain grab you, luckily enough, but he can hit you with his Fsmash, which hurts like heck. Either way, Olimar is excellent at grabbing, so this will be a troublesome match up no matter how you view it.
Verdict: unsafe
ROB: running grab, Ftilt, Dtilt
He sees to slide a fair bit on his running grab, but not as much as Pikachu. His follow-ups aren't too bad either. Dtilt can trip you though.
Verdict: safe
Falcon: Dtilt
The good Captain is too manly to use cheese tactics like this.
Verdict: safe
Lucas: infinite
Well gosh darn. Lucas dittoes just got even more boring than Ness dittoes. Whoever gets the first grab wins, and Lucas now has a glaring advantage over Ness. Bravo Sakurai, I hope you're pleased with yourself...
Verdict: hopeless.
>:-(
*goes back to making his new Lucario animated banner.*
By the way, I thought I'd add that the timing to get a perfect running grab for most of the characters who can chain throw this way is actually VERY strict. If you press Z even just a fraction of a second too late after starting the dash, you'll give Ness or Lucas a chance to spot dodge. NO ROLLING. Spot dodge is the fastest form of evasion available for them in this situation.