Need Inspiration & Motivation

[Immagraton]

I need some ideas. I find it frustrating that I'm unable to apply certain "advanced techniques" in my games. I CAN PERFORM THEM, I just don't know when to use them.

The first being shield-dropping. Now, I'm not referring to stationary shield dropping -> aerial to punish shield pressure. I'm referring to dash -> shield drop through a platform. Is the only use to look sexy/confusing?

Number two is aerial -> normal drop through platform -> aerial (all aerials l-cancelled of course...). Is this an efficient way to drop through? Or is aerial -> shield drop through platform -> aerial significantly faster?

Three, is it faster to dash forward for a split second then dash back after an l-cancelled aerial than it is to just dash back?

Finally four, my research of shield dropping led me to the video "rockcrock the crusher 2". This guy seemed to like to shield drop a lot. Is that simply for sexy points? Or is shield dropping, if one is able to consistently perform them, better in every situation where you drop through a platform?

 

[V3ctorMan]

If you want shielddropping tips/ideas... you should contact me, or any of AZ's players... AZ's likely most consistent area, with using these...but many other people obviously know how to use consistently also..

#bias

Many know useful ways to teach, practice this tho..

 

[Immagraton]

If you want shielddropping tips/ideas... you should contact me, or any of AZ's players... AZ's likely most consistent area, with using these...but many other people obviously know how to use consistently also..

#bias

Many know useful ways to teach, practice this tho..

I've actually got it down with 99% consistency. I sense there's so much more than meets the eye. I don't know where to throw them in though. Who should I be watching? Any matches you can direct me to?

 

[Immagraton]

Is this board such a wasteland that I can only receive one person's input? It can't be.

 

[Upke]

Well, when you ask like that...

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

Inspiration and motivation? What do you want us to tell you? If you can't bring yourself to do it, you won't be able to do it. If you want to get better, push yourself to get motivated to do it, the same holds true for anything in life. Be your own inspiration. Practice these techs, I really don't know what you want us to tell you.

 

[Blother]

I think what he may want is a consistent source of video that he could use to learn how the techniques are used.

The title is kind of misleading to what he is asking though. I don't think he is looking for inspiration to practice because he has said that he is proficient with the techniques. In the context of his title, I would say he wants inspiration/motivation to use the techniques. That is a weird way to word it, so basically he wants to see why they are useful (video most likely).

 

[Immagraton]

I didn't mean to be rude. I figure my second and third questions have pretty straightforward answers, and most people viewing this thread have the knowledge to give me the information I seek.
For example: answer to question one (I'm not sure if this is true): Dashing forward for a split second and then back after an l-cancelled aerial is quicker than dashing back when you land.

Those questions are only up to frames and theory, and I'm sure a lot of you have studied which options are quicker in those scenarios.

I was hoping I would also receive some wisdom from people who actively practice the shield dropping technique. Sorry if I am terrible at explaining myself, I never meant to be confusing.

 

[Immagraton]

Inspiration and motivation? What do you want us to tell you? If you can't bring yourself to do it, you won't be able to do it. If you want to get better, push yourself to get motivated to do it, the same holds true for anything in life. Be your own inspiration. Practice these techs, I really don't know what you want us to tell you.

My point is it's highly likely you are able to offer some applications from your own experience. I would like you to tell me how you use these techniques. They're practiced, I need application.

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

My point is it's highly likely you are able to offer some applications from your own experience. I would like you to tell me how you use these techniques. They're practiced, I need application.

The best way to learn is just watching good players play and recognizing when to apply the things you've learned. After a while the thought process becomes second nature. I'm not in a position to speak from great experience but I know that the way I learned to apply ATs was just playing and watching to see where I could apply things I see good players do. Time conditions you to seeing situations. I hope that's what you meant.

 

[Immagraton]

The best way to learn is just watching good players play and recognizing when to apply the things you've learned. After a while the thought process becomes second nature. I'm not in a position to speak from great experience but I know that the way I learned to apply ATs was just playing and watching to see where I could apply things I see good players do. Time conditions you to seeing situations. I hope that's what you meant.

Yes, thank you, that's good advice. I guess my problem with this one specific technique is that it's extremely rare. Stationary shield drops are common, dash -> shai drop is not.

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

Yes, thank you, that's good advice. I guess my problem with this one specific technique is that it's extremely rare. Stationary shield drops are common, dash -> shai drop is not.

Again, just watch more high level matches. The best way to learn is to see what is good. Once you start seeing that you'll start subconsciously thinking of situations where you say "hey look if I did a dash -> shai drop there it would be ideal" because you understand what it would do in that situation and why it would be a better decision than what was made instead, then it's all about recognizing that in your own play.

 

[gravy]

My shield drops are godlike, I do them every time
I drop through a platform. I would fit right in with the AZ guys. Basically the advantages are that you go through platforms twice as fast, can threaten any area under a platform, and have the fastest possible OOS options. As far as motivation, you're just going to have to stick it out or you'll never have the consistency you want. I made myself strictly only drop through platforms with a shield drop once I decided I wanted to implement it, and went through the hell of getting destroyed for spotdodging as falcon all the time. I also put at LEAST 500 hours of solo practice into them. The results show though, I now doubt there's anyone who does it better than me.

 

[gravy]

Except yoshi mains, that **** is OP for them.

 

[gravy]

I read through the thread again and realized you want specific applications. I'm a falcon player, so I'll give you the examples I use. At low percents I can combo nair into shield dropped uair way before that combo exists normally, and I can also uthrow/dthrow uair faster than I should be able to. I can tech chase on platforms by dash dancing and reacting with shai drop uair, it's just as easy as DD grab but gets me way more reward. I can dash dance while someone is on the ledge and effectively cover any option they choose from the ledge (ex: they get up attack, I shai drop a knee on their face.) Once you get really good at it, you can use it to move to specific places faster than it should be possible. For example, starting on the side of a platform farthest from the ledge, I can dash towards the ledge, pivot a shai drop, and waveland back onto the edge. There's no possible way to go between those two locations faster than that.

 

[4 Aces]

The first being shield-dropping. Now, I'm not referring to stationary shield dropping -> aerial to punish shield pressure. I'm referring to dash -> shield drop through a platform. Is the only use to look sexy/confusing?

Number two is aerial -> normal drop through platform -> aerial (all aerials l-cancelled of course...). Is this an efficient way to drop through? Or is aerial -> shield drop through platform -> aerial significantly faster?

Three, is it faster to dash forward for a split second then dash back after an l-cancelled aerial than it is to just dash back?

Finally four, my research of shield dropping led me to the video "rockcrock the crusher 2". This guy seemed to like to shield drop a lot. Is that simply for sexy points? Or is shield dropping, if one is able to consistently perform them, better in every situation where you drop through a platform?

It is not only to look cool. Imagine when a character is underneath a side platform (left side of Battlefield for example), in the center of that platform. Then imagine you being above him, falling onto the platform. Now, after you land, what you want to do is to move over to the right, then drop through and back air him off the stage. The fastest way to do it is to dash, then shield drop (Shai Drop), bair.

If you can't do this, then you'd be forced to run off the side of the platform and bair him. That's what I do currently, and sometimes those few extra moments of having to fully run off the side to bair gives them enough time to shield. I'm in the same boat as you, buddy. I can use Shai and Shield drop more or less alright. But I'm bad at finding times to use it.

But yeah, that's one use of the Shai drop. Other use is when you're baiting/pressuring, cuz being able to dash dance on a platform then fall through without having to stop first/whatever is really nice. Or it might let you extend combos. I'm not sure where this would fall under (regular shield drop or shai), but you can dash forward --> Shield and block an attack, then fall through. Guess you can call it a delayed Shai...or just regular shield drop...lol

I've been wondering about #2 for the longest time. I'll see Falcos Dair, then drop through platform and dair again. Looks hella awesome, but I'm never quite sure if it's just a simple drop through or if they're doing something like Isai drop...
As for aerial --> Shield drop through platform --> aerial...I'd say that's slower than simply dropping through, cuz you'd have to pull up your shield for a standing shield drop (I think). If you're talking aerial --> Shai drop --> aerial, then...I think it'd still be slower, but this way it lets you slightly position yourself first before dropping through and attacking. I'd imagine it'd be in the same vein as that new thing Marths are talking about (F-throw --> Pivot F-Smash). It just lets them close the gap juuussst enough so that they can tipper with F-Smash, which otherwise wouldn't work.

#3 I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure it's simply faster to turn around and dash, than dash forward then backwards. The delay of the turnaround is what makes you think dashing forward and backwards is faster. Kinda like how I used to think reverse/retreating SHL with Falco is slower than going forward, when they're both about the same if not exactly the same. It just "felt" different and slower.

#4 I can't quite say.

 

[gravy]

It is possible to shield drop instantly so that from a standing position you drop through the platform in two frames (1 frame to shield, one frame to drop) which is twice as fast as the four frames a drop through normally takes.

 

[Immagraton]

Thanks to everyone, awesome ideas/applications. I really like the idea of using shield-dropping to quicken the follow up of an aerial after throws/other set up moves. I guess this opens up a plethora of new follow up options for all characters.
I would appreciate more definitive confirmation on which method of a retreating dash is quicker. If not, I'll take 4 Aces' word for it.

 

[gravy]

Dashing away is definitely faster than dashing in and then away.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

how would one go about having a shield dropping competition

 

[4 Aces]

It is possible to shield drop instantly so that from a standing position you drop through the platform in two frames (1 frame to shield, one frame to drop) which is twice as fast as the four frames a drop through normally takes.

I stand corrected then.

How fast can humans do it though? I guess I'd imagine that the meta will have to just learn and evolve to that point. I'm definitely starting to see more people incorporate shield drops. Not much, but more so now than before.

 

[gravy]

I can do it in one frame perfectly every time.

 

[4 Aces]

I can do it in one frame perfectly every time.

I aspire to be like this. The whole having to softly slide control stick down is what makes it so hard for me (and I'd imagine a lot of other people). Any thoughts on this?

 

[gravy]

Basically for me I have different motions memorized by my fingers for four types of shield drops. The shield drop out of hitstun while standing still is its own separate motion, and there's a TON of different ways to do it. Then you have what I think of as the one frame shield drop, which I just do from a standing position, and I just kind of melded my inputs together and practiced forever. Then you have the shai drop out of a dash dance, which is super similar to the one frame shield drop. Lastly, there's a pivot shai drop which is basically combining the motion you make to do an empty pivot (meaning to turn around quickly and just stop in place) with the motion for the one frame shield drop.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Ain't nobody shield drop better than AZ, (Axe, me at least) yall don't even know... (specially in ACTUAL matches too, under pressure/etc... ain't no "practice" (allen iverson rant) ..

#bias

Seconding that shielddrop competition (if even possible.) I'll throw down $$ Axe will too..

 

[AXE 09]

Our shield drops are the best in the world, and nobody can tell us otherwise! So take that

#notbias



#okmaybealittlebit

 

[gravy]

I'll visit AZ soon enough and we can see :D I've seen your guys shield drops, even played against vectormans, I'm just saying mine are just as good. I bet I've got you beat in one frame shield drops :D I can seriously do like 100 in a row.

 

[gravy]

Yo I was thinking we could do like a shield drop version of SKATE, just call it SHIELD. Give each other challenges and stuff and you get a letter for failing. I'll 20 dollar money match anyone at that. Even you, AZ :D

 

[JKJ]

I can shield drop like once in a while out of pressure if I make a wish first.

 

[Bones0]

Ain't nobody shield drop better than AZ, (Axe, me at least) yall don't even know... (specially in ACTUAL matches too, under pressure/etc... ain't no "practice" (allen iverson rant) ..

#bias

Seconding that shielddrop competition (if even possible.) I'll throw down $$ Axe will too..

Our shield drops are the best in the world, and nobody can tell us otherwise! So take that

#notbias



#okmaybealittlebit

You guys are frauds. MD/VA has the most/best shield droppers, and we've been doing it longer than you have. Shield drop crew battle at Apex. No johns.

 

[SAUS]

I need some ideas. I find it frustrating that I'm unable to apply certain "advanced techniques" in my games. I CAN PERFORM THEM, I just don't know when to use them.

The first being shield-dropping. Now, I'm not referring to stationary shield dropping -> aerial to punish shield pressure. I'm referring to dash -> shield drop through a platform. Is the only use to look sexy/confusing?

Number two is aerial -> normal drop through platform -> aerial (all aerials l-cancelled of course...). Is this an efficient way to drop through? Or is aerial -> shield drop through platform -> aerial significantly faster?

Three, is it faster to dash forward for a split second then dash back after an l-cancelled aerial than it is to just dash back?

Finally four, my research of shield dropping led me to the video "rockcrock the crusher 2". This guy seemed to like to shield drop a lot. Is that simply for sexy points? Or is shield dropping, if one is able to consistently perform them, better in every situation where you drop through a platform?

The title is indeed confusing.

Learning when/how to use them in a match takes a while. I remember the first time I wavedashed in a match (and it actually mattered - not just for fun while my opponent was dying). It was a great feeling - my opponent tried to roll behind me so I followed with a wavedash backwards and got a free up-tilt. Watching high level players is probably your best bet. When I play now with marth especially, it's like regular movement doesn't even exist. I'm almost always wavedashing, wavelanding, dash dancing, shuffling moves, or comboing my opponent (or getting combod).

1) Shield dropping... Do you mean when you shield and then fall through the platform? If so, I'm pretty sure it's faster than regular dropping through the platform, so just always use it.

2) Same as above - shield drop is faster always (I'm pretty sure).

3) Dash back is faster. There is no difference except that you waste a few frames dashing forward.

4) Shield dropping is faster.

 

[Immagraton]

I can do it in one frame perfectly every time.

Could you post a link to one of your recent matches? I'd like to see your drops in action.

 

[gravy]

I pretty much don't have any recent matches but I have a regional coming up this weekend, and all my matches should be recorded!

 

[Immagraton]

I pretty much don't have any recent matches but I have a regional coming up this weekend, and all my matches should be recorded!

I look forward to them.

 

[gravy]

I have unfortunate news. My analog stick completely **** the bed like ten minutes before the tournament and my videos are pretty subpar at best. I still got some off though so you can see where I use it.