Need help with zelda MU

[ted dorosheff]

If anyone has experience against this MU please help. My buddy who mains zelda is really good with her fire balls and edge guards the **** out of me with it. I just played against him and lost a bunch so im frustrated as ****. Creating this post now so people will see it by the time i get home. Ill post some more details of what im seeing when i get home.

 

[cisyphus]

throwing a hitbox out on fireballs forces them away. In general I would say to keep a distance and use ZSS's speed to bait out some committal moves then punish them accordingly. More information of course goes a long way in assisting you, though.

 

[ted dorosheff]

More info requested, more info provided.

So one of the things that i have the most trouble with is her neutral b. He (my buddy) uses zeldas nB a lot and rather quite effectively. The hit box on it is large and persistant. what he usually does is throw a dins fire out about halfway between him and me, and then when i come in (usually first with a lazer to detonate the dins fire, or just up and over the ball) he will either dash attack me, get under where im going to land and up smash, or space me out and then nB when i land near him.

One thing that i can land pretty successfully on him is my side B, Zss's tether lazer thing. This throws him up, and i usually get under and him and up smash, and then try to start combo'ing from there.

I think most of my problem with him, especially yesterday, is that 1. i was being too predictable, 2. my gameplay was adapted to another one of my friends who plays way more of a tech game and 3. i wasnt even using all of my combo openers on him. One of the things i like to do with him is do ZSS's dair juggle > combo. Im actually pretty good with the dair juggle and can routinely juggle him up to the ceiling > drop under him > upair for a vertical kill (assuming his DI is really off).

My zelda buddy has pretty much zero tech skill, his game is actually REALLY campy. Not sure if im using that term correctly, but if he plays any character that has a ranged attack (mario's fireballs, any character with a bow, pikachu's electric bolt thing that goes accross the ground like a slinky, etc) you will see him spam those attacks to a comical degree. Like he will sit under a platform as mario, spam fireballs (he has no shame, he will sit there and spam them for the entire game) and then if i attack from above, he will just upsmash, i'll DI away from him killing his combo game, and then he will run to the other side of the stage and do the exact same thing again.

 

[jzplusplus]

I've been in the same situation, playing against a pretty good and not-too-techincal Zelda. Here's some random thoughts:

• ZSS neutral B is mostly useless, except for blowing up Din's fire. If you shoot at Zelda she can just reflect it
• If Zelda is spamming her neutral B, bait it out and use it as an opportunity to down-B combo. Just make sure you wait til the hitboxes are ending before going in. She's relatively protected from this on stages with low platforms.
• If Zelda is spamming Din's fire predictably, you can sometime jump over the ball (through? does it have a hitbox while being sent out?) while she's placing it and get her while she's in end lag. Depending on how far away you are, you can use side-B. Even if she has time to shield, you can get a grab. I personally like using the SHFFL weak-hit f-air into grab.
• Conserve your double jump as much as possible. If you are hit with Din's while recovering, you get another down-B so she's kinda helping your recovery
• Don't be afraid to go recover low, Zelda has a lot fewer options against this

(apologies if these things are well known or redundant, I haven't been looking around the ZSS board for very long)

 

[ted dorosheff]

I've been in the same situation, playing against a pretty good and not-too-techincal Zelda. Here's some random thoughts:

• ZSS neutral B is mostly useless, except for blowing up Din's fire. If you shoot at Zelda she can just reflect it
• If Zelda is spamming her neutral B, bait it out and use it as an opportunity to down-B combo. Just make sure you wait til the hitboxes are ending before going in. She's relatively protected from this on stages with low platforms.
• If Zelda is spamming Din's fire predictably, you can sometime jump over the ball (through? does it have a hitbox while being sent out?) while she's placing it and get her while she's in end lag. Depending on how far away you are, you can use side-B. Even if she has time to shield, you can get a grab. I personally like using the SHFFL weak-hit f-air into grab.
• Conserve your double jump as much as possible. If you are hit with Din's while recovering, you get another down-B so she's kinda helping your recovery
• Don't be afraid to go recover low, Zelda has a lot fewer options against this

(apologies if these things are well known or redundant, I haven't been looking around the ZSS board for very long)

Thanks for the info. For the past week ive been focusing on my zelda MU. All of the things you've posted i have, at one time or another, been aware of and/or tried against this MU. At this point im MUCH more comfortable playing against zelda, so i think i can touch back on this post and share what ive learned.

• Din's fire does not have an outgoing hitbox. Also, it has a minimum range (if not directed downward) of about two luigi wavedashes.
• dair juggling is very effective against her.
• her dins fire is clankable with dash attack when its in "trap mode"
• If she places her dins fire behind you, which reduces your ability to space her out, just go on the other side of her. If she has a ledge to her back, very tight dash dancing is good to bait a neutral b or some other attack, which should be punished with grab.
• when chasing for an areal kill, stay below her and try to get uair kills. her lightning kicks are dangerous.
• when recovering from a ledge, try to stay as low as possible. If she is a good zelda, she will be putting her dins right above the edge. If you try to jump over it, all she has to do is jump to meet you and nair. Flip jump stalling on the ledge is wonderful for waiting out an edge guarding dins. Still hanging on the ledge, drop down and then flip jump towards the stage for a really low recovery.

I think the best overall approach to fighting the zelda MU is mind games. If you are trying to be super fast, wave dashing all over the place to try to just out-speed her, its pointless. All she has to do is stand still and play defense, a play style which nearly all of her moves cater to. Start throwing lazers at her until she starts trying to reflect them back, then go in with a grab or side-b. Then when she starts reflecting the first lazer, start dair juggling. Keep her guessing.