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Need Help Tackling Infuriating Zelda Spammers

Woodmaster69

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
7
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Cincinnati, Ohio
NNID
THEWoodmasta
So I was on a roll last night beating up on a guy using fox and marth or whatever, beat him 3 times in a row with Gren, Dr. and Bowser. So he leaves, and i switch back to my main man Gren for the next fighter. Turns out he is Zelda. We start out evenly matched at first, with me substituting all of his farores that he spams. But then he switches to this god forsaken tactic. So Greninja is a very close up fighter, so Zelda just switches to spamming nayru's love. It has like no end lag and rediculous range i cant get near and all my projectiles bounce off. i tried hitting from above but that was unreliable. When i got knocked off the edge inevitably the douche just spammed din's fire off the edge so i had to air dodge. I was then vulnerable when i landed and was dash A'd off the screen again. Rinse, Repeat. If i ever did get a lucky hit in, it was back to spamming Nayru until i was knocked off again. i just couldnt apporach it. I know i'm ranting but i really want to know how to counter this crewed up strat (srsly how can that be fun for him).
 
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Shrokatii

Smash Lord
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Jan 10, 2015
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Well, as a matter of fact, it does have ending lag, and a character as fast as Greninja should be able to punish it. I don't play Greninja, but if they're spemming it, you could definitely run into it, and just at the right moment shield, and during the end lag, you can grab. Your disjointed smash attacks might have enought range too if you're close enough, but I'm not sure. Try to get a friend to play Zelda and spam it, and see what you can do and experiment with it. You could also go online and use the tactic yourself, and see how other people deal with it.
 
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ZombieBran

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
1,645
If you can't beat Nayru's spam, I dunno what to say.
 
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Woodmaster69

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
Messages
7
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
NNID
THEWoodmasta
yeah yeah it was written during a rage moment....i was just looking for advice, not condescension from the pros out there

truth be told i had more trouble getting a foothold on the stage with that din+ dash a combo keeping me off to the side than nayru. air dodge, land, get blasted with little magic sparkles lol
 
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cwjakesteel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 6, 2015
Messages
170
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Jamaica
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I like Zelda, and if you're going to run up to me or fall close to me, Nayru's Love is my safest bet to not only do damage to you, and break your momentum, but also crush your spirit (with love).

IMO you should bait Zelda to start attacking you. Nayru's Love spamming is like cause and effect. It's similar to to spamming down airs unto stage and wondering why your opponent always manages to shield grab you (this happened to me forever for a little while).
 

Zylach

Smash Ace
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Feb 11, 2012
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652
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Madison, WI
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Orienlithel
3DS FC
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Countering Nayru's spam just takes practice with the timing. It has quite a bit of endlag so memorizing the amount of time the hitbox for Nayru's is up will only help you in punishing it. If I'm not mistaken, Greninja has a pretty good grab game. His dash grab covers a bit of distance compared to the rest of the cast so using a dash grab while she's in endlag frames is probably your best bet. If she's spamming Nayru's, don't use any projectiles at all and she'll probably start to use other strats especially if you're punishing her every time she uses it.

As for Din's fire, if you're off stage, you just have to expect it and airdodge in time. Greninja should be able to recover from fairly low so even if she angles it down while you're recovering low (which you should be doing against Zelda because Phantom hurts when you're offstage) you should be able to recover after an airdodge. If you're above the stage and in the air while she's on the ground, switch up your falling patterns. Are you falling only in one direction? Are you trying to fake her out by zigzagging in the air? As long as you switch up how you get back down to the stage, she'll have a harder time reacting to your landing. This goes for all characters.
 

Phenomiracle

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
782
Location
New Jersey
You'll have to forgive the extreme bewilderment that came over me when I read that a Greninja couldn't handle Zelda's Nayru's Love Zelda.

Nayru's has plenty of end lag. If he's spamming it and it's working, he's obviously predicting your approaches. Mix up your ground game. Stop rushing in predictably and bait his Nayru's. Move closer slightly, wait for him to deploy Nayru's, and punish the end lag with a grab/dash/whatever Greninja mains use these days. Keep in mind that Nayru's final hitbox frames have the most range. Mix it up with some shield-rolls away. Roll too much, and he'll read your rolls and deploy Nayru's whenever you roll towards him.

And as for Din's Fire. Recover low. From what I remember, Greninja has great vertical recovery. Din's is absolute sh*t in this game; it can't move much horizontally. And learn to fastfall at various altitudes midair, your landing location is made much harder to predict, hence rendering it harder to punish with Zelda's dash attack (or Zelda in general, she's much too slow to react to anything).

tl;dr Fundamentals. Practice them.

Nice going Phenom, another person who'll be able to handle Zelda in a matter of days.
 
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CommanderPepper

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Yeah Gren's recovery is hard to deal with as a Zelda main. He can move around at weird angles to avoid Din's fire. He can also push his opponents so spiking Gren's recovery with Zelda's dair/fair/bair is hard.
As for Naryu's love it does have ending lag so you can punish with a grab after shielding. The problem people have with it is the how long the move is active and it's invincibility. If you try to spot dodge Naryu's Love you will be hit during your recovery frames. It also has invincibility frames so it can beat or at least trade with attacks. I think of it as a dp from SF. A dp is powerful but if baited can lead to big damage. Be close and stay patient, don't get frustrated, frustrate your opponent.
 

Alacion

Sunny skies
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Tbh I don't even know how people can play Greninja... I think he's really difficult to use.

Greninja has a huge speed advantage... go in and out a lot (similar to dash dancing) and that alone pressures Zelda a lot and keeps her guessing.
 

Mocha

Coffee Addict
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So I was on a roll last night beating up on a guy using fox and marth or whatever, beat him 3 times in a row with Gren, Dr. and Bowser. So he leaves, and i switch back to my main man Gren for the next fighter. Turns out he is Zelda. We start out evenly matched at first, with me substituting all of his farores that he spams. But then he switches to this god forsaken tactic. So Greninja is a very close up fighter, so Zelda just switches to spamming nayru's love. It has like no end lag and rediculous range i cant get near and all my projectiles bounce off. i tried hitting from above but that was unreliable. When i got knocked off the edge inevitably the douche just spammed din's fire off the edge so i had to air dodge. I was then vulnerable when i landed and was dash A'd off the screen again. Rinse, Repeat. If i ever did get a lucky hit in, it was back to spamming Nayru until i was knocked off again. i just couldnt apporach it. I know i'm ranting but i really want to know how to counter this crewed up strat (srsly how can that be fun for him).
First off, Nayru's Love is a wifi move. Tbh, all her specials are wifi moves, as well as dash attack imo.

I played a Zelda last night that would Nayru's Love in panic moment situations, or to try and mess up my follow-ups. After I caught on, I punished him almost every time, even with wifi against me. Then in the times where I was certain he would Nayru's, I got free lightning kicks on him, because the cooldown of Nayru's Love is enough to be able to do that. So yes, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but Nayru's Love does have ending lag.

My suggestion to you is to first analyze when the Zelda player is going to use Nayru's Love. Does the player use it when you're close? Are they using it to try to actually block projectiles? Or perhaps they're landing with it after whiffing an aerial? Once you start figuring this out, you'll be better prepared to punish. I think another helpful tip is to hold your shield just a tad longer when trying to shield Nayru's Love, since the shards seem to have a deceiving lingering hitbox. Don't be afraid to angle your shield up too.

Mix it up too! Bait them into doing a Nayru's. Run up to them, shield, and see what they do. If they Nayru's within short distance of you, free punish.

If you're still having trouble with the match up, I'd be down for some games, if you'd like. I can also try a hand at using Greninja against other Zelda players, and you can spectate/rotations. I enjoy using Greninja too, though as @ Alacion Alacion pointed out, he's very difficult to use.
 
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easymode

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
1
Her spinning move is abusable because of the online lag. It can be minute, but it is still there.

To beat Zelda you just gotta cheese her. Mewtwo and Samus crush her easily. I like to throw her off the ledge, analyze her recovery and then dunk her as she tries to recover. Especially if she uses her spinning thing to teleport right into Samu's down air. Dat moment when you realize you got too cocky and get meteor smashed to oblivion :D

Also Mewtwo can turn anything she uses against her. None of her special moves work against him. Try reflecting her phantom slash back at her when she's edge-guarding and lel as she kills herself.
 
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