Official Mysterious Arsenal - Greninja Information & AT Thread

[Lavani]

Shadow Sneak during shield is mentioned in the first post :V

I spent a brief amount of time toying with it awhile back but never got around to formal testing, but I think what you need to do is start shadow sneak on the last frame of the minimum shield hold time.

 

[droughboi]

Shadow Sneak during shield is mentioned in the first post :V

I spent a brief amount of time toying with it awhile back but never got around to formal testing, but I think what you need to do is start shadow sneak on the last frame of the minimum shield hold time.

I just must be blind as hell then cuz' I clicked all those drop downs and everything trying to figure out how I did it.

Edit: oh stealthy dropdowns inside of dropdowns. Yah I'm blind. Disregard.

 

[Sonsa]

Yo, I have been testing Shadow Sneak recently and found out two tiny ATs.
The first one is that you can SS out of shield without jumping. For example, you can run towards your opponent to the right side, shield (while still holding right) then press B.

The second AT is Shadow Sneaking while shielding. I performed it accidentally while trying to do the first AT.
Basically if you were running and then shielded, you will slide for a short distance while in shield. If you managed to input Shadow Sneak after the slide starts and before it ends, you can continue shielding while charging shadow sneak up to the maximum distance.
So I could say the input is: Run (let's say to the right) > Shield (While holding the right direction) > B (as you are sliding).

Here's a video:

Not sure if there is any application for it, but I'm trying to use SS more after 1.0.4 patch, be it on ground or mid air.

Hi! I've been practicing this, and yall might already know, but you dont even need to run to do it! The SS while shielding. Ive just turned, shielded, and my shadow was going.

Sorry if yall already know and Im just being redundant, but in case ya didnt Id want to help out and let ya know, this could sorta help punish rolls, stand your ground, sorta faster. Just the same tech, but just turning around, no running start needed. Turn, left or right, shield, with the input of the turn still held B and your shadow sneaking while shielding! Its neat.

 

[TTYK]

Excuse me, where is the mention of wavebouncing, perfect pivoting, boost grab, shield grab, run to shield, foxtrotting, teching, and SHFFFA (short hop fast fall forward air)? The sheik thread really is 1-uping us in this department.

 

[David Galanos]

Wavebouncing?

 

[TTYK]

Let liberation explain it to you/

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Those techniques are all general techniques, not Greninja specific ones.
But to answer your question, David, wave bouncing is when you transfer your momentum to the opposite direction while b-reversing. For inputs for wave bouncing shuriken, for example, while having forward momentum, you'd press b and immediately flick backward, where as with a regular b-reverse you would press the opposite direction before inputting the move.

 

[Gunla]

Actually... I'm not quite sure what Wavebouncing exactly is in your context. I've heard the term tossed around a few times, but never fully explained consistently.

Care to quickly explain it?

EDIT: Oh, that (I refer to it usually as Momentum Reversal). Since it's not a specific technique, that's why I haven't added it, but it's certainly helpful for Greninja.

 

[TTYK]

Actually... I'm not quite sure what Wavebouncing exactly is in your context. I've heard the term tossed around a few times, but never fully explained consistently.

Care to quickly explain it?

aMSa did it multiple times during Apex 2015. It is a neat pressure tool that is pretty useful combined with Greninja's water shuriken. You jump in the air, press B, and IMMEDIATELY press in the other direction and you will do a little bounce with the water shuriken, towards the direction you pressed. It really is useful.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

I've discovered a few advanced combos with Greninja, but I'm unsure if I should report them here or not.
I pull them off very frequently in matches and the technique is actually very worth going for in the midst of a match, but I haven't been posting lately, haha. Would anyone like to go on wifi and possibly help me with a large scale write up for options out of this?

Edit: I feel that these options may significantly advance whole Greninja meta

 

[TTYK]

I've discovered a few advanced combos with Greninja, but I'm unsure if I should report them here or not.
I pull them off very frequently in matches and the technique is actually very worth going for in the midst of a match, but I haven't been posting lately, haha. Would anyone like to go on wifi and possibly help me with a large scale write up for options out of this?

Edit: I feel that these options may significantly advance whole Greninja meta

lol right.
Edit: I feel that these options may significantly advance whole Greninja meta

 

[Ookami Hajime]

I'm not sure what that reply was supposed to mean

Edit: I've decided I'm just going to do the write up.

Is there a problem with that statement? It has plenty of uses and works as a solid kill set up, mix-up, and punish. You haven't heard me out either.
"Whole meta" maybe be an overstatement, but when it comes to what I mentioned above, I think it could be really helpful, but I'll let the Greninja community decide that for themselves.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I'm not sure what that reply was supposed to mean

Edit: I've decided I'm just going to do the write up.

Is there a problem with that statement? It has plenty of uses and works as a solid kill set up, mix-up, and punish. You haven't heard me out either.
"Whole meta" maybe be an overstatement, but when it comes to what I mentioned above, I think it could be really helpful, but I'll let the Greninja community decide that for themselves.

Whale, what is it? :?

 

[Ookami Hajime]

One of the techniques I've found is the conversion options out of sweetspot d-air.
Sweetspot d-air occurs at the very start up of the move and the spike hitbox causes vertical knockback on a grounded opponent,

I started experimenting a lot with this almost a month ago after seeing all the crazy Japanese Greninja gifs and found that it is actually a very reliable kill set up. It has worked consistently to the point where I land it all the time. In this explanation, I will abbreviate SweetSpot to "SP" for convenience. Keep in mind that this combo is guaranteed ONLY if you can land the d-air without them teching.

Combos:

SP D-air ---> falling u-air spike -----> f/d/u-smash
Percents: Works best 100-120% with no rage
Side notes: You can actually rack up damage with this before landing the kill; because of the slow fall from u-air spike, you are actually able to SP d-air them as soon as they land to repeat the u-air spike.

SP d-air -----> SP d-air---- > U-air spike ----> F/d/u-smash
Percents: 90%-120%
Side notes: Slightly more precise timing than the above combo. Easier to escape and better for racking damage than landing the kill.

SP D-air ----> shadow sneak:
Kill Percents: 110-140%

SP-dair -----> F-air/N-air (n-air doesn't kill reliably)
Kill percents: 130-140%

-Situations for landing SP d-air

Punishes:

Most people would not see it as an oos option, but it is very viable for countering the more laggy moves in a characters moveset. Short hop SP d-air out of shield is a great option for starting this combo. It's also a reliable move for reading rolls and spot dodges, as well as punishing a whiffed move.

Set ups: For whatever reason, players tend to air dodge to the ground when you use Greninja's d-throw around kill percents. They do the same thing with Greninja's d-tilt and these reactions are likely in response to the m trying to predict your u-smash or another kill move. Take advantage of this; when you d-throw or d-tilt, run where they land and d-air them during their air dodge landing lag. This is the set up that has been most reliable for landing the sweetspot d-air most often for me.

Will post link to video examples in a few

edit: Link to youtube video examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0cs4dh8CS8
I apologize for my bad, iPhone camera quality. This was tested in traning mode, so take note of that.

Some of this tech is just me showing examples, and have been discovered already

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

One of the techniques I've found is the conversion options out of sweetspot d-air.
Sweetspot d-air occurs at the very start up of the move and the spike hitbox causes vertical knockback on a grounded opponent,

I started experimenting a lot with this almost a month ago after seeing all the crazy Japanese Greninja gifs and found that it is actually a very reliable kill set up. It has worked consistently to the point where I land it all the time. In this explanation, I will abbreviate SweetSpot to "SP" for convenience. Keep in mind that this combo is guaranteed ONLY if you can land the d-air without them teching.

Combos:

SP D-air ---> falling u-air spike -----> f/d/u-smash
Percents: Works best 100-120% with no rage
Side notes: You can actually rack up damage with this before landing the kill; because of the slow fall from u-air spike, you are actually able to SP d-air them as soon as they land to repeat the u-air spike.

SP d-air -----> SP d-air---- > U-air spike ----> F/d/u-smash
Percents: 90%-120%
Side notes: Slightly more precise timing than the above combo. Easier to escape and better for racking damage than landing the kill.

SP D-air ----> shadow sneak:
Kill Percents: 110-140%

SP-dair -----> F-air/N-air (n-air doesn't kill reliably)
Kill percents: 130-140%

-Situations for landing SP d-air

Punishes:

Most people would not see it as an oos option, but it is very viable for countering the more laggy moves in a characters moveset. Short hop SP d-air out of shield is a great option for starting this combo. It's also a reliable move for reading rolls and spot dodges, as well as punishing a whiffed move.

Set ups: For whatever reason, players tend to air dodge to the ground when you use Greninja's d-throw around kill percents. They do the same thing with Greninja's d-tilt and these reactions are likely in response to the m trying to predict your u-smash or another kill move. Take advantage of this; when you d-throw or d-tilt, run where they land and d-air them during their air dodge landing lag. This is the set up that has been most reliable for landing the sweetspot d-air most often for me.

Will post link to video examples in a few

Sorry, buddy, but

GRENINJA'S TRUE COMBOS v 1.0.4

Spoiler: Dair Combos

Dair Combos:
Combo moves.......................................% at which the combo works.........Total Damage
meteor Dair -> meteor Dair -> Fair ............................59-115%.................................30%
meteor Dair -> meteor Dair .......................................59-166%................................16%
Dair -> Bair............................................................64-175%...............................12-17%
Dair -> Fair............................................................65-140%.................................22%
meteor Dair -> meteor Dair -> Bair ............................67-115%.................................22%
3 × meteor Dair -> Fair (13) .......................................82-114%.................................38%
3 × meteor Dair -> Bair ............................................82-166%.................................30%
meteor Dair -> Nair ..................................................83-200%................................19%
meteor Dair -> Shadow Sneak .................................100-180%..............................18-20%
4 × meteor Dair -> Bair ...........................................108-120%................................38%
4 × meteor Dair ......................................................108-166%................................32%
3 × meteor Dair -> Nair ...........................................120-166%................................35%

http://smashboards.com/threads/greninjas-true-combos.375003/

Meteor dair has been known for a while.

 

[Lemonade Candy]

Hmm oos sounds interesting :3 Never thought about that. I usually just grab or jump out of shield and use hydro pump for placement if i can.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Sorry, buddy, but

http://smashboards.com/threads/greninjas-true-combos.375003/

Meteor dair has been known for a while.

I'm aware that people have known about meteor d-air, but I am talking about the many conversion options out of it and other ways in which it can be used.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I'm aware that people have known about meteor d-air, but I am talking about the many conversion options out of it and other ways in which it can be used.

Then I suppose it'd be better off to be posting them over here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/greninjas-true-combos.375003/

As it's where we're keeping track of our useful conversions and combos.

Meteor dair isn't exactly a new AT, so...

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Like I said, meteor d-air as an AT wasn't entirely the point of the post just now x.x
The point of the write up was about possible conversions out of it and how it can be used, rather than the meteor d-air itself.
But either way, I will see about posting them there

edit: thank you~

 

[Yan-Yan]

Anyone try Jab > Dtilt > tippered Usmash kill setup?
I like using it more often!

 

[Lemonade Candy]

they can jump out of it if they are aware. To add to that though, I jab jab fsmash or jab jab dash grab depending.

 

[David Galanos]

Ookami's SP Dair stuff is really good guys. It may not be the easiest thing to do out of the blue but if you punish with it like with the air dodging thing he said it's a great way to kill, plus, it's pretty stylish.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

Haha, thanks David

 

[Marilink]

So Reddit has informed me that Running Shadow Sneak is gone.

This saddens me greatly.

 

[Spirst]

So Reddit has informed me that Running Shadow Sneak is gone.

This saddens me greatly.

Yep, it's gone. Patch isn't on Wii U yet so if you're on there, enjoy the last few moments with it before the inevitable.

 

[Sonsa]

Yep, it's gone. Patch isn't on Wii U yet so if you're on there, enjoy the last few moments with it before the inevitable.

So they've changed some things about the characters too? Oh dear... And poor Greninja just keeps getting nerfed.

 

[Spirst]

So they've changed some things about the characters too? Oh dear... And poor Greninja just keeps getting nerfed.

http://smashboards.com/threads/patch-1-05-analysis.390646/

A lot of the comments are placebos. This wasn't really much of a balance patch so much as it was a bug/glitch fixing one. However, in the case with Greninja, running shadow sneak was a legitimate option albeit rather difficult to execute properly. So yeah, I'd consider it a nerf yet again.

 

[Marilink]

Well that blows.

 

[David Galanos]

Awww that sucks, I literally just got good at doing it yesterday

 

[Lemonade Candy]

How do you guys use Water shuriken? I think I use it fairly well but its one of things I know I could improve.

 

[Sonsa]

How do you guys use Water shuriken? I think I use it fairly well but its one of things I know I could improve.

I'm not the best Greninja, but I've got a lot of hits in by sorta using it like Falco's laser, just throw out some little ones to tack on damage, and I charge more when punishing hard reads with lots of lag or charge fully to guard edges. Also great to reverse B charge in the air for somewhat of a surprise attack.
Also just a good spacing tool, it makes many opponents want to jump, where you can short hop fair or nair, maybe even punish with an up smash if someone's losing their cool and jumps with an attack.

 

[David Galanos]

How do you guys use Water shuriken? I think I use it fairly well but its one of things I know I could improve.

Um. well, Shuriken has many uses. You can zone with it, use it for a follow up, edge guard, stuff like that. I don't recommend doing this all the time but I like to shoot one and go in for a grab. I b reverse shurikens sometimes, I like to jump off stage and throw a full charged shuriken, it seems stupid, and it is if you try to do it against someone with a spike, but idk I've gotten a lot of kills with it. You can also throw a fully charged one into a Fair or something like that. This is just most of the things I do
Edit: Yeah you can punish landing with it too, with a full charged ones. It's also just to good for pressuring and stuff like Sonsa said

 

[Shack]

Apparently there is no more Running Shadow Sneak in the 3DS version. Probably coming to Wii U soon or when Mewtwo comes out. Leave Greninja alone! Everything they nerf wasn't even broken in the first place.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/...d-patch-notes-ever-excellent-smash-community/

 

[FullMoon]

Apparently there is no more Running Shadow Sneak in the 3DS version. Probably coming to Wii U soon or when Mewtwo comes out. Leave Greninja alone! Everything they nerf wasn't even broken in the first place.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2015/...d-patch-notes-ever-excellent-smash-community/

Late, but yeah. Though it's not that much of a big loss since most people couldn't even use running Shadow Sneak consistently.

 

[Drexel]

I really wanted the Running Shadow Sneak to stay. I was having so much fun with it on For Glory before the nerf, such a useful mindgame on foes. But at least it still has retained a few tricks that I am learning, I just wish it was still here.

 

[Seith]

Dunno if this is worth mentioning or if it has been, but Greninja meteors his Dair when it hits a characters head as well as their center. So meteor Dair combos are easier if you just aim for where a character's head will be/is.

 

[Lavani]

Dair spikes for its first three active frames, then has the 60 degree knockback past that. It doesn't have anything to do with where you hit them, you just need to hit with the beginning of the attack.

 

[Seith]

Oh okay... that explains a lot actually

 

[Sonsa]

I didnt know that! Guess it would be most effective against characters with recoveries that require them to stay put for a while, like Fox, Falco, even Diddy sometimes. Almost similar, but harder, than Toon Link's dair in Brawl. I love going for risks and spikes...but down-airing, missing, and falling to your death at high speeds is quite embarrassing...

 

[David Galanos]

I have trouble b reversing into people and i get punished. I keep making bad habits out of it :/