My Sonic hitbox thread

[TwinkleToes]

Hm, I can never seem to get u-smash to work as pimpin' as you imply it is. I'll have to play around with that some more...

And I hadn't realized dair's sweetspot was that far behind him. Time to try some new edge-guarding things :x

 

[Napilopez]

That much range?

o_0

Methinks I'm gonna go practice my spacings with this...

The only dair I'm not sure it outranges/outprioritizes with the second hit is Dedede's, and I think it can. Spacing is easily, just a matter of fastfalling.

Also of note about using Uair for recovery: as I've mentioned elsewhere, it autocancels quite easily. If you hug the edge with it, or use it to ledge drop midair jump attack(lol is there a name for that?), its much safer than any other aerial, as itcomes out almost as quick as fair, and is much more disjointed than it horizontaly. Furthermore, since it autocancels, you have no landing lag.

 

[Browny]

meh. im too scared someone will just grab me out of the uair to even bother anymore lol. Then again i dont even know if its pssible to shieldgrab a uair unless its DK, DDD or charizard...

 

[Napilopez]

meh. im too scared someone will just grab me out of the uair to even bother anymore lol. Then again i dont even know if its pssible to shieldgrab a uair unless its DK, DDD or charizard...

Uairs hurtbox on the first hit(and prolly second too) I'm quite sure is tiny. Unless the opponent has great grab range and spaces perfectly to grab past the disjoint, you wont't be grabbed out of it. I for one never have been. I just wish it did more damamge =/

 

[Tenki]

if you're approaching with U-air, it should be shield grabbable.

also partly because the first hit pulls them towards you, right?

 

[Boxob.]

Not when they're shielded.

 

[Tenki]

djdjdjdjdj

hwo do u use super sonic in brwal???


-----------

I think F-tilt's first hit should also kind of get a bit of a hitbox review :<

especially for some of the noticeable multi-hit or changing moves, it'd be more accurate to get a feel for where the hitboxes are at different parts of the move.

 

[JayBee]

if you're approaching with U-air, it should be shield grabbable.

also partly because the first hit pulls them towards you, right?

Unless you cross up with it when you approach, which when auto cancelled, lets you run away before the turnaround grab, you continue attack quickly.

 

[MarKO X]

imagine super sonic's hitbox.

Good thread. Know what I learned today? That Melee's hitboxes were not exactly hitboxes.

I have a suggestion: combine the frame data with this thread, specifically when the hitboxes come out. Like, make a link from one thread to the other or something like that.

 

[Browny]

well you could just click my sig at the bottom of the OP lol

 

[JayBee]

I was beating my freinds in the air with Uairs these last few weeks after practicing its spacing (thx to this thread. one dude told me that he noticed I was "spamming" uair when we were playing, and I said, "because Sonic's uair is jesus."

Sonic? spam? the? lol.
thx for the thread, dj.

 

[Browny]

HE FINALLY FIXED HIS MAIN ICON

+ large amounts of steak to Kojin

 

[JayBee]

HE FINALLY FIXED HIS MAIN ICON

+ large amounts of steak to Kojin

i thought it was time for a change.not bad . but i had to keep my ban metaknight sign somehow. thx. will u be done with the other moves soon?

 

[Napilopez]

I have a rough Idea as to how to test for disjointedness!!!

Its really rough, and I cant think of a precise way to test this, however...

Certain moves can go through objects. Sonic's Uair for example can go through the lip of FD at at least certain parts. I noticed his bair can hit through the fin in corneria, and thats how I got this Idea.

So what I'm thinking is perhaps for horizontal moves, to look for somewhere or maybe make something in stage builder with a thin wall. Test to see the relationship between how far the move hits and how much sonic can go through said object. Like for Sonics bair, I would assume that part of his foot would go through said object, while the rest of the body would not be able to. Gah I don't know if I'm making any sense, but hopefully you get the idea.

 

[Browny]

someone test something for me... have a huge disjoint attack which moves the character forwards during the attack (marth fsmash, ike fsmash, ZSS side b) while standing as close as possible to a wall (tree in ps1 will do) and see if they move away from the wall after the attack. that might help things >_>

 

[infomon]

I never realized how mad disjointed Fair is at the front, until this thread...... but now I use this all the time.. like for edgeguarding, I Fair way in front of them, they don't expect it to hit them but it does, and we're far enough away that it's very hard for them to hit us (especially since they're trying to return to the stage)...... and it means they can't DI into the stage, it'll almost certainly knock them away if they get stuck in the disjointed front of it.... Fair is too good.

 

[Tenki]

FAIR

Its not really that disjointed... It just looks that way because Sonic spins around. However the final hit of fair with killer knockback is what appears so disjointed in front of Sonics head. It only exists for the very last part of the attack though.

lol infzy.

deeeejaaaaaayyyy

you should take a hitbox picture for the non-sweetspot part of the F-air, then take a picture of the sweetspot part. I think Sonic's head extends a bit doesn't it?



also, is anyone going to take up my request to test for 'hurtbox' during his extended moves?

cause remember, disjointedness isn't just how far it extends off the body, but by the gap or extension from the hurtbox

Try testing with Marth F-air..?

 

[ShadowLink84]

The disjoint on the last part of SOnic's Fair can blow up green green bomb blocks without Sonic being harmed.

I was testing with Sonic's Uair and on some pint either the hitbox gets larger during the first hit, or sonic has invincibility.

Ftilt has a lingering hitbox. Not long, deals out 5%

 

[Browny]

ugh so much stuff to do. i probably wont be able to do any new stuff for about 4 more days, only got a short time to practice before next big tourney here, which lasts the entire weekend :/

 

[ShadowLink84]

ugh so much stuff to do. i probably wont be able to do any new stuff for about 4 more days, only got a short time to practice before next big tourney here, which lasts the entire weekend :/

I've had no practice in 2 months and I plan to go to inui's tournament. I am crazy.

 

[JayBee]

ive been kind smashed out, but i'll get back to it friday since chu's is this weekend...

 

[Napilopez]

I never realized how mad disjointed Fair is at the front, until this thread...... but now I use this all the time.. like for edgeguarding, I Fair way in front of them, they don't expect it to hit them but it does, and we're far enough away that it's very hard for them to hit us (especially since they're trying to return to the stage)...... and it means they can't DI into the stage, it'll almost certainly knock them away if they get stuck in the disjointed front of it.... Fair is too good.

I am using fair for edgeguarding ALOT now. MY horizontal spacing in the air is pretty bleh, but spacing vertically I'm a pro at XD. What i ifind myself doing alot now is once I knock my opponent offstage, I will pursue themm offstage with DownB or running or something, dropping down by fastfalling or using Dair, and then using reverse spring back up in order to kill them with Fair. Its very sweet and effective, since its hard to see coming. I also do the same thing with Bairs, when I know I will need its disjointedness or at lower percentages where fai wont kill.

also, is anyone going to take up my request to test for 'hurtbox' during his extended moves?

cause remember, disjointedness isn't just how far it extends off the body, but by the gap or extension from the hurtbox

Try testing with Marth F-air..?

Well, this is kinda what I was getting at before with my suggestion. But that depends on whether there truly is a relationship between one's hurtbox, and the ability to go through objects.

 

[Tenki]

What do you mean by the ability to go through objects?

I mean I'm pretty sure you can make an Marth's sword go through another aerial Marth's sword, or MK's sword for that matter, as long as the hurtboxes don't overlap.

 

[Napilopez]

Like for example, Try using Sonics Uair under the lip of FD. You can hit people on the ground above that way. Sonic's legs will go through the lip, while most of his torso will not. This leads me to believe the torso is where his hurtbox is, while the legs the hitbox(I mean we all know that, but still). Hitboxes can go through "solid" objects in the game; the more disjointed the attack, the further it can go through said solid objects.

I think perhaps some of the thin walls drawn on pictochat might be a good and easy way to test disjointedness, if my theory is correct. Like if you stand marth next to one of the vertical line walls that are drawn, his sword should be able to through the line, while the rest of his body, where his hurtbox is, cannot. Moves like Sonic's Bair should hit a fair distance through the line, while Sonics Nair probably wouldn't be able to. Likewise for Fsmash and Dsmash. Fsmash would be able to hit some distance through the wall, while Dsmash would not be able to at all. The further away through the wall they can hit, the greater the disjoint.

 

[infomon]

Yeah, that's the new idea djbrowny posted in his hitbox/hurtbox thread, to try and determine disjointedness. It's a brilliant idea really, but.. I'm a little suspicious. We don't know for sure that it's your hurtbox that refuses to pass through a barrier; there might actually be something else, like a center-of-mass calculation or smthg like that which determines what part of you can go through or not. But you're probably right, the more I think about it, that it just makes sense for it to be hurtbox-dependent; and that might also explain some of the glitchiness involved with characters like Wolf and his weird side-B, and whatnot.

 

[Napilopez]

Hehe, hurtbox dependent would probably be easiest for developers, but yea as I said its just a theory. But it does make sense. I don't have all the unlockable pieces for stage builder. Is there any type of really thin wall vertical object to test for disjointedness? it would be easier to test with that than with pictochat and its constantly changing stage. Or perhaps there is some other stage with thin walls I'm not thinking of.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic's Fair>Pit's Nair.
The disjoint on the last hit and first hit are roughly the size of Sonic's shoe.
It was kinda funny, I repeatedly spaced the Fair while the CPU tried to Nair me and it would just get smacked away.
Heheheh, was fun.

Pity it never works on humans.

 

[Vorguen]

I still think Pit is more capable than Sonic in the air though.

 

[JayBee]

good for you. that makes perfect sence btw...

Im still trying to rework my horizontal spacing with fair though. upair had more progress...

 

[Napilopez]

Sorry for the necro, but thought it would be better to address DJs hitbox question here rather than on the tier list thread.

When you find a way to do that, let me know. Using standard attacks like snake utilt wont work since it will clank, and timing an aerial to hit at max range AND take a few screenshots from all 4 directions at the exact fame it hits.... yeah no

I had actually been thinking about a possible solution to this, but kept on forgetting to post it.

It might not work for all situations, but I'm pretty confident it would do well for at least grounded moves. Much more reliable than my "goes through objects method anyways". Let me explain the theory.

So, MK's attacks sword based attacks all have transcendent priority except for glide attack right? Well, transcendent attacks don't clang. They work purely on a hitbox to hurtybox basis. See what I'm getting at? If you use one of MKs attacks on sonic, then his attack should not hit you until it reaches your hurtbox, and it won't clang with the hitbox.

Now the problem is, timing MKs attacks to release just as you release with sonic. but I was thinking, that for at least some moves, you should be fine using MKs standing A, as the hitbox remains out the whole time. If one of sonic's disjoints beat it though, it wont work.

So I wonder if there are any other attacks with lingering, static position hitboxes that have transcendent priority.... Now that I think of it, I've never seen anything Clang with DKs downB, and that thing has a heck of alot of range. maybe that might work. If not, perhaps there is some item that has such an effect... hmm. What about Hammer?

Just a suggestion ^_^

 

[infomon]

Oh, good call, Napz.

I'd heard that Marth's dancing blade also has transcendent priority. That would probably work for everything except maybe our Ftilt/Fsmash. It'd be extra hard though since Martha dances forward while she does it

I foresee a lot of frustration with any of these methods.

 

[darkNES386]

Of course if I give credit where it's obviously due, do you want these pics in the current guide?

 

[Browny]

If you want... Doesnt bother me lol. just be sure to mention that those pictures do not show the disjoint on any attack and its all good

 

[Napilopez]

I already told DJ, but maybes shieks =chain would work, since it has transcendent priority, and well, u can make the hitbox stay out.

 

[aeghrur]

This thread needs to be renamed to the SONIC DOESN'T HAVE HORRIBLE PRIORITY thread.
And yes, it is important enough to bump because God, I hate that misconception.

 

[Tesh]

I found this thread very useful, but i was disappointed to find out that none of the other character boards seem to have one. It would be helpful to know a more exact distance of my opponent's moves. This type of thread should be on each character board. How exactly was this made?

 

[Browny]

Actually, the jigglypuff, ness and lucas boards have done the same thing. I have no idea how far theyve gone, but even more interesting is that none of them contacted me and asked for specific details in how I came up with these pictures...

It was made by using 4 pictures of all attacks (more for multi-hit attacks, uair had 8) showing the exact frame the attack hitbox came out, and the spark that resulted. For example, bair

That spark represents the maximum range I was able to get the bair to hit from, from behind. I then did that to all 4 directions for each attack, trying to take each screenshot at the exact same frame (extremely difficult, I couldnt manage it often). Then with each picture, I took a reference value of the range relative to sonics body. In the above example, lets say the range from the spark to Sonics glove was 10 pixels. I then measured the length of a reference item, using the platforms of battlefield. they were around 550 pixels.

Then in the picture I used in this thread, I measured the size of the platform (about 600 pixels) and applied a correction factor of (10/550) to find the relative range of the attack. This removed most of the errors involved in using different screenshots to measure the same attack, since its hard to keep all images at the exact same zoom level and orientation.

With that done to each direction of the attack, I drew an ellipse with the major and minor diameters equal to the calculated range of the attack and located it with each edge on the pixel I drew as the max range of the attack in any direction.

All these methods cause a build up in errors, I could expect each step to go maybe 2-3 pixels each way so it could get as bad as around 6-9 pixels each way, but its the best I can do by only using screenshots

 

[Browny]

Lol necro

I have a plan to measure disjoints... let me know what you guys think.

Using Warios fsmash, you can easily determine the extent of his hurtbox since he stands in the same position for a long time, you can simply have snake utilt him or something and get it to spark and figure that out. Similarly, you can easily measure the range (and invidible hitbox, if there is one) on Wario's fsmash in a similar fashion, sandbag can be used here.

Now to find the disjoint of an attack, simply have the attack hit Wario during his fsmash such that his SA frames will show he is being hurt, but a disjointed attack that hits it shouldn't get cancelled out. Im sure this will be easy to see with Snake's utilt. The distance you can move the attack forward until the character takes the knockback will therefore define the minimum extent of a disjoint while the maximum range of the normal attack is obviously the maximum extent of the disjoint.

Makes sense to me in theory, do you guys think it will work? It should be easy + quick to test with Sonic lol, im interested to do it on Lucario though.

 

[phi1ny3]

I'll need to think about this, but this seems logical, I guess that'll be trickier with smaller disjoints that could possibly be knocked by the hurtbox extending a little too far (yes, it happens with disjoints too), but then again that just means you'd just need to reset and retry again.
Sounds like a good idea, seems a little less tedious than the sandbag, I'm wondering if there's something else item-wise that has pseudo super armor until they take a certain amount (like chansey from Melee) or something like that.
Edit: wow, I talk like how I feel, very tired.

 

[Browny]

ehh slight problems i found

Warios SA frames only exist before he actually moves forward. hence moves with small disjoints/range are impossible to determine, Sonic's fsmash is indeed on of these. It worked very well for snakes utilt and lucarios fsmash however