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My kirby In tournament Ft Kage.

Ministry

Ministry

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
616
Location
Europe
hey guys. iv been taking kirby pretty seriously. and i finally have some matches up online from our weeklies here in Montreal.

would you guys be able to watch them and give me any critique or advice. specific or general. looking to improve my kirby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdR1bIprd9o#t=6m46s
vs kages sheik.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZHyHcGhc7M#t=6m43s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBT3Qs1J7nY#t=3m

vs falcon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nywajb9jgnI

vs marth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72uee4RcV80
vs falco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uauQvEirFcU
vs zelda/peach
 
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Plunder

Plunder

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Messages
862
Location
Port Royal
NNID
1337-7734-8008
Awww yea I forgot that you are THE Minisry, I've seen your matches before. I really love your playstyle and your attitude toward the game.

Let me just say that hammer on Kage was great; optimal punish on Sheik's land lag, and that 7x spot dodge.....legendary.

You seem to have a more competent Kirby than I do so I'll limit my critique to things I know for sure can be optimized -

On Kage's Shiek it's hard to say since he was obviously not playing the character or MU efficiently. Crouching and Dtilt can frustrate Sheiks immensely, they will try and come from the air eventually since Kirby nullifies their ground game a lot. That's when you want to pivot U-tilt or Bair, when they SH or FH in place you know they are going for diagonal needles, so WD in and grab or punish.

For Falcon you need to do way more down throw > jab resets or WD tech chases (you want them on a platform, then it's amazing), you can beat his ground approach with Crouching and d-tilt as well. Beating Falcon's SH approach is harder since you don't have time to react, I prefer to face backwards and use DD WD to be ambigous. Shield when they air approach, Bair OoS, and FH Bair (Bair FF since it lasts long), and Utilt is amazing since once it confirms on Falcon is can start a combo. Also something interesting is that you can grounded inhale most of Falcon's SH approaches, when I'm playing against an aggro naive Falcon I can't tell you how many times near edge I've wavedashed back > inhale their dash grab, SH Uair / Fair / Dair into kirbycide

Basically as you know with Kirby you never want to be in the air floating about, and never ever want to be above any opponent really.

When recovering, Bair back to stage since it minimizes Kirby's hurtbox and still conserves momentum (Bair hitbox actually covers a bit ahead of Kirby as well, he can stop projectiles from the front with a Bair). Recover low if you can't space dair from above and poke Uairs from below edge. Also air dodging on stage is a MUCH better option that Up - B since almost any smart player can beat any spacing of Up-B recovery.
 
Cereal Rabbit

Cereal Rabbit

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,536
Location
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I'm typing from my phone so I'm too lazy to type a lot. You really need to work on your mobility. You lose stage control because you're not positioning yourself after every situation. Crouching is amazing, but don't get too caught up in your tiny neutral advantage that you limit your options to make punishes easier. You can f-tilt, down smash, and JC grab out of crouch really safely if your opponent misses a move over you. I saw so many things go unpunished because you chose to roll out of shield or tilt without gaining much.

For grabs, I saw too many early % f throws and b throws. If you can't get a follow up on a 7-8% damaging grab, just go for an up throw for 10-12%. Either ways since Kirby's follow ups are limited, u throw is optimal. Down throw is different based on match ups and whether people know how to tech it.

Down air is something I personally never use unless I can get behind shields. F tilt a lot more. Mix up your recovery more as well. Get the ledge stall down too.

Besides all that, you're an intelligent player with a great Kirby journey ahead of yourself. Work on putting on a smile as you play in tournament and soon you'll be one of the best Kirby players out there!
 
Cereal Rabbit

Cereal Rabbit

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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PLEASE GET THIS KIRBY PLAYER TO SMILE ON THE PLAYER CAM!!!

Sorry if I sounded really blunt. I just have so much zeal for the year of the Kirby... Wahoo! The Year of 2:kirbymelee::kirbymelee:1
 
Cereal Rabbit

Cereal Rabbit

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Messages
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Davis, CA
@ ChivalRuse ChivalRuse

Your Kirby's has a lot to work on in the neutral. I feel like you're only pushing advantages because your opponents are flubbing up techs or mindlessly jumping into your u-tilts. Generally opponents who begin spacing better will force you to use other options besides u-tilt. Not to mention you really love the u-tilt. I do too, but it causes you stay extremely immobile.

You've played a handful of Marth and Kirby's neutral is no different. Dash dance and catch people with d-tilts. Edge your % in (like a Samus player kind of) with tilts. When you watch Foxes or something run back and forth anticipating the JC grab, hit them with the d-tilt if you can react to the movement. Once your opponent in the neutral realizes they can't win the neutral staying grounded, they will expose themselves with aerials where your options will expand. U-tilts will be safer and a better option. F-tilt can also be a good move to punish landing of your opponents. Believe it or not, when your opponent starts jumping, your f-air can catch and fully combo jumping opponents (fox for example).

*** Also breaking this down, most neutrals you should be crouching. In Kirby vs Marth/Sheik/Fox/Puff your neutral should be facing your opponent. In Kirby vs Falcon/Falco/Peach/ICs your neutral should be mostly facing away from your opponent. This really boils down to how effective d-tilts are in the neutral. It's safer to bair the opponents in the facing away from the opponent in neutral. It's safer to d-tilt and f-air the match ups where you should face the opponent in the neutral. Kirby has amazing ground mobility and a great wavedash and dash dance grab. Get some good up throw punishes, follow movements to platforms, and back throws off stage if you can afford to %-wise.

Mix up your recoveries too. You are going low and allowing for yourself to use UpB and risk getting wrecked. I like recovering high so I can trick my opponents between grabbing ledge or landing on the platform/stage. Air dodging is really broken too... haha
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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8,413
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Yeah I am terrible at recovery.

And I agree: I don't use fair/f-tilt enough in neutral (I over-rely on bair, d-tilt, utilt and dash dance grab), and I think that makes me too one-dimensional. I will try to work on selecting forward-facing options more.

Thanks for the advice!

Edit: I went back and watched the videos keeping in mind the things you said. My movement is pretty bad in the Fox games. I have a lot of work to do just in that regard, not even factoring in the overarching poor move selection. Wow, my Kirby looks bad in these videos. Time to go back in the lab.
 
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Ministry

Ministry

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
616
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Europe
great matches duke. i love your marth match up. i learned a lot.

i think there is a couple things that would improve your game play though. a lot of times he would smash your sheild, and you had free WDOOS to grab on marth but you did not take it for some reason. ikm sure u know this option, i just didnt see you use it at all.

there is other times when u are ledge guarding marth where he would dip super low. if i recall u chose roll both times and he got back. might be worth it to marth killer edge hog him. if he goes on stage its a free kirbycide. again u probably know that option. but i think it might be usefull to throw it in sometimes.

overall love your kirby. I still have a lot to learn.
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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I see what you're doing and why it's effective. But on the other hand those Marth players weren't challenging you on the ground with d-tilt or covering your roll in well. You beat them without having to shield > wavedash out of shield at all. Either this is too high level for me to understand or those players were just terrible at the matchup / with Marth.
 
Cereal Rabbit

Cereal Rabbit

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Haha yes. I played Bardull who is a pretty good Marth player in NorCal. Once Marth players start challenging your d-tilt with his, you can actually safely f-air him. (whaa? you can fair a Marth?) The reason why this works is because the down-tilt hit box of Marth is only on the floor which makes his head vulnerable. Get a good read and your fair will knock him down or push him again. Over all Marth is forced to play a different neutral than he is used to by this mix up.

Yeah and in terms of Marth killers, I'm incorporating that more and more. It's all really mix ups. The drop bair was so reliable but it is time to move to more options. And also for the wave dash out of shield, I just wasn't playing on fleek. I usually do, but when you're an amazing Kirby on stream and have nerves you accidentally roll or get stuck in shield. The more recent stuff of my Kirby right now is super advanced and I look forward to keeping you guys updated on it!
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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@ Cereal Rabbit Cereal Rabbit Yeah, I don't doubt your ability to aptly employ higher level tactics at all. I was just observing what happened in the flow of those matches.

I have noticed more and more that fair is great for getting through crouch cancel and being annoying on shield because of the grounded hitbox. That's a move, as I said previously, that I want to get more comfortable with so I can add it to my arsenal.
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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Nair is pretty useless, I've noticed, since I use it a lot (aka too much). It seems like it only can work if you combo it from a well-DI'd u-tilt into nair into another u-tilt or if you are edgeguarding sometimes falling with nair into uair can be effective.
 
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