My idea for a Bayonetta Fix

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

I may not be the first to say this but hear me out please:

Many people feel that Bayonetta's off the top kill combo is the most annoying thing in the game. My solution albeit a very simple one revolves around Up B'ing when you're out of jumps.

My solution to this problem in the next patch is to make a the Up B after using up your jumps send you into a helpless state. This is because while the second up B most times wouldn't kill off the top the Up air after it does.

This is my solution to the problem because face it we can propose to change fram data and what not but this isn't the way to go. People wanted Bayonetta in the game and we shouldn't rob them of her playing how she does in her game where her frame data on most things are emaculate. And lets face it SHE'S A COMBO CHARACTER. That's what makes her unique in smash. With this solution it doesn't stop her from being that it just stops her from being CHEAP. This solution would allow her use the first jump and Up B and continue her combo however once that second Up B comes out she's helpless. This would cause a Bayo main to think about do they really want to cash in a second up B for the chance rack up damage in exchange for a possible punish after or are they just going to settle for the regular combo and be safe on it. This also helps edge guard oportunities because she wouldn't be able to Up B into side B and kick at the stage to recover after using all her jumps. This way we aren't stepping on toes but instead we are creating a better balance.

TL;DR Bayos second Up B isn't the problem its the fact that she can still attack afterward leading to early kills. My patch solution would be to make her second Up B or her Up when she's out of jumps send her into a helpless state. It'll stop siper early kills and create better edgeguarding opportunities and creating better balance.

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

Bayonetta needs to be nerfed to the point where you have to work for her kills

She shouldnt be so safe and low risk

 

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

Bayonetta needs to be nerfed to the point where you have to work for her kills

She shouldnt be so safe and low risk

That's what my idea does without taking away her point as a combo character because if she can't up air after her huge combo you would effectively make her have to work for her kills because it would cause a balance shift where you'd see her use more witch time which after whiffing it becomes crap and using more smash attacks.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Would that kinda ruin the point of Bayonetta, though?
She's fine as she is, really, we need to learn how to play against her. Some even say she's not the best in the game.

 

[MarMarTheGreat]

Would that kinda ruin the point of Bayonetta, though?
She's fine as she is, really, we need to learn how to play against her. Some even say she's not the best in the game.

Maybe make all her attacks less stronger

Keep the concept but weaken it

 

[Metallinatus]

Joined: Today

Aw boy, love when people decide to join Smashboards JUST to complain about a character....

 

[Deleted member]

My solution to this problem in the next patch is to make a the Up B after using up your jumps send you into a helpless state. This is because while the second up B most times wouldn't kill off the top the Up air after it does.

Maybe make all her attacks less stronger

Keep the concept but weaken it

Sorry, but this is full of bullcrap.
Nerfing her 2nd Up B will make ladder combos useless besides racking up damage, and killing of the top of Town and Ciy (Like the only stage with a small ceiling). Her attacks aren't that strong, besides the alright KBG (THAT DEPENDS ON % THAN ON ACTUAL WEIGHT). She will bait and punish you, and kill you if you are stupid enough. Play lame, defensive how you want to call it, it'll make her find a way to do her cheesy combos, but it'll cost percent or death with her pretty light weight.

 

[Kalierdarke]

doesn't look like it needs nerfed to me.

 

[SkippyJ]

Get rid of her frame 1 air dodge/spot dodge/roll and ill be satisfied. I can live with being getting bodied by a sick combo, but i want to be able to come back with a sick combo or sequence of my own. Its REALLY hard to do that when my opponent can litterly just simultaneously mash air dodge with ine hand while giving me the finger with the other XD tbh, i like her death combos, its how her character was meant to work. Play her games, its what she does. The dev team just needs to fix her rediculously good risk:reward ratio. Nerf bat within. Nerf witch time a bit more. Decrease weight. She deserves to have a terrible roll/spot dodge/air dodge, and to be maybe the lightest character as well. She fits into the cast as a glass cannon.

 

[Metallinatus]

What about that time Dabuz air dodged Nairo's Up B and killed him with an Up Air? Of course that meant nothing to people, they want nerfs no matter what....

 

[SkippyJ]

Are you talking about airdodging zss's upB with rosaluma? well for 1, rosaluma has a standerd air dodge, not this frame one "up tilt strings mean nothing to me" madness that bayonetta has. And 2, that situation is very specific. With very few exceptions, you arnt going to find yourself that close to the blast zone comboing rosaluma only to have her air dodge and kill you. Most characters just dont go that high up there after people, with ZSS and her down throw combos and mario up-air>upB strings on battlefield being a few of the exceptions that come to mind.. and well those characters do well in tourney anyway, so if a rosaluma happens to avoid a crazy death combo/string with a perfectly timed air dodge and get rewarded for it with a kill, i cant be mad, really. Its not like its ruining marios and ZSSs career or something, and while it certainly is one more good thing that an already very good char (rosaluma) can do, its not carying the character. Rosa, while anoying to fight, takes a lot of skill to play at a high level, and a strong understanding of all her moves and what situations to use them in.

Bayonettas crazy air dodge is near universally a pain, no matter who you are playing as, no matter the situation, and no matter the skill of your opponent. She litterly can just shut down most characters combo game. Its not just a problem to a certain few top teirs because they happen to carry you so high anyway.. its a problem to everyone but ESPECIALLY to the characters that already suffer in tournament setting. They already are lacking in true combos as it is, rellying mostly on strings and reading DI. Bayonettas god like air dodge makes these already lacking characters even worse.

This coming from a person that was reluctant to nerf shiek. I am not one to jump on the nerf bandwagon, but i REALLY see it as necessary in this situation..

 

[Transform]

Her Risk vs. Reward ratio is absurd, side b is so safe on shield & is a great combo starter, great OoS options, cancel-able bullet climax to help in neutral, good aerials, not to mention the Un-diable witch time 0-death combo, and her regular 0-death combos (that she can react to the di of), I'm not complaining, just stating the truth, characters shouldn't forced to play defensive the whole match as some characters don't even have the resources to do so, & most characters have to bait & punish therefore you have to take risk for damage/death, and it doesn't matter how "stupid" you are, anyone can be fooled by mind games under a good player lawl.

 

[SkippyJ]

Again, im fine with the death combos, i like a fast paced meta.. but the opponent needs to be fairly rewarded for hitting her. If a character can do death combos, then she deserves to be extremely fragile to compensate. This would discourage bayo mains from spamming side B, and give their opponents more incentive to come out of sheild and take the offensive. Everybody wins.

Edit: like for example, cloud can kill early, land the hits, and he can take a punch, so he has a poor recovery, thats 3/4. Sheik can land the hits, take a punch, and she has a great recovery, so she has a hard time killing. Again, thats 3/4. Bayonetta can kill early, land the hits, and she has a great recovery, and she can take a punch (midweight + godlike air dodge). Thats 4/4. Make her jigglypuff light and give her a poor air dodge so that she cant take a punch, bringing her down to 3/4 just like the rest of top teir.

 

[Kalierdarke]

Her Risk vs. Reward ratio is absurd, side b is so safe on shield & is a great combo starter, great OoS options, cancel-able bullet climax to help in neutral, good aerials, not to mention the Un-diable witch time 0-death combo, and her regular 0-death combos (that she can react to the di of), I'm not complaining, just stating the truth, characters shouldn't forced to play defensive the whole match as some characters don't even have the resources to do so, & most characters have to bait & punish therefore you have to take risk for damage/death, and it doesn't matter how "stupid" you are, anyone can be fooled by mind games under a good player lawl.

Side B is only safe on shield in the air. on the ground it is VERY unsafe.

 

[Transform]

Side B is only safe on shield in the air. on the ground it is VERY unsafe.

O, I forgot to clarify it being the airborne varient, my B

 

[MarioMeteor]

She's really not that bad. There are definitely characters better than her. If the Elevator of Doom gets nerfed, the best course of action would be to just give Witch Twist more ending lag.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Bayonetta actually struggles to start a combo, she is just good at chaining one.
So landing hits is a no.

Also Bayonetta has the worst Air dodge in the game and is as light as pre 1.1.4 Sheik (84). She is not a middle weight nor does she have a godly Air dodge. The only thing impressive is the BatWithin is frame 1, but she still takes half the damage and the invisible frame starts on frame 5 (slowest start up in the game) combined with a whopping 36 total frames of lag (the slowest in the game).
So taking a punch it also a big no no.

 

[SkippyJ]

Proportionate to her reward for getting a hit no i dont think she struggles. Many characters in this game dont have any safe options on shield. Her qcf side B is safe on sheild and it also just ao happens to be ine of her best combo starters. Her back air is fantastic for spacing in neutral. Her bullet arts are decent for pressuring from a distance. Her neutral air is fairly fast and lingers as long as you want it to, which is amazing. First hit of forward air is extremely fast and can lead to your death. At first glance no her moves dont seem great but once you get used to her you realize that she has options for nearly every scenario, and in many scenarios amoung the best options of the entire cast, some of witch lead to death.

And sorry maybe shes not actually "middle" weight relative to the rest of the cast but i wouldnt say shes abnormally light compared to the rest of what is generally considered the competative top - sheik, zss, rosalum, pika, cloud, diddy - she seems fairly middle, maybe a little light. In my opinion, with kill combos at that large a range of percents, she deserves to be EXCEPTIONALLY fragile. Again, like a glass cannon. And yes ik her air dodge is slow but its not actually the air dodge itself that is the problem, its the bat within that comes with it. Its just luck, and it seriously screws over a lot of characters. Mashing airdodge when you are being combod takes no skill, and i dont think that an already top teir character needs to be rewarded for doing something that takes no skill.

 

[SkippyJ]

Put bat within frame 4 or perhapse even 3 and thats okay, but frame one just gets her out of way too much.

This is the way i see it. Bayonetta forces most characters to play VERY lame and defensive. Thats a problem, cuz its boring. No one wants to play (or watch) a boring game.
So how do we solve that problem without having to ruin her completely or change her general playstyle/concept?

Let her offense work the same, make her defense worse to encourage people to play more offensivly against her, that way everyone gets what they want. Bayo players get to keep their general playstyle, their opponents get to play a funner game, and the audience gets to be more entertained.

 

[Lakuto]

Put bat within frame 4 or perhapse even 3 and thats okay, but frame one just gets her out of way too much.

What is the point of having Bat Within frame 3 when Mewtwo's airdodge comes out frame 2? That would make Bayonetta's airdodge strait up bad, litteraly the worst airdodge.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Many of her normal moves have quite the start up.
Her fastest move is Witch Twist frame 4, all her other moves has at least 7 frames of startup.
Another factor is her sub par mobility, she can struggle to keep up with quick foes and using specials will result in landing lag.
Also, spot dodging a Dive Kick can help punish her since she will have lag. So a Dive Kick is safe on shield, but not landing.

The fastest air dodge in the game is frame 2, not sure what's the big deal to a frame 1 air dodge that you still take damage from.
It also has the highest endlag of all AD with entire 10 frames, most character only has 5 or 6 frames of endlag on their air dodge.

You are saying Bayonetta force you to play a certain way which is the exact same thing many Little Mac complainers were saying about him.
"Oh you are forced to camp the ledge and play boring, people are just gonna camp at the edge and it will be boring......" (Check Little Mac's forum for proof)
Yet Little Mac possible one of the most fun character to watch.

 

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

Joined: Today

Aw boy, love when people decide to join Smashboards JUST to complain about a character....

Is it bad that I have another account I just can't remember the pass word because I haven't used it since December. And I'm not complaining I just want to find a middle ground for everyone because if youre a casual this won't fly. I enjoy the challenge of figuring out the most optimal way to beat people because thats how you actually get good.

 

[SkippyJ]

Yes thats exactly my point, she should have a very poor air dodge. Thats what ive been trying to get at Note that air dodge is one thing that makes mewtwo good. He doesnt have death combos across a massive range of percents. You didnt see people picking him up and winning tournaments with him week one.

And again with little mac, while similar in a vacume, its entirely different in context. Barely top 100 little macs are not beating top 10 players with only a couple weeks practice. Yeah mac might be scary and you might wanna play defensively against him in the center 1/3 of the stage where he shines, but on the other 2/3, the outer two thirds, you are actually going to want to play fairly aggressive, trying to knock him off and go for the gimp before he regains center stage. Its an intense and volitile battle for stage control that only RARELY becomes a waiting game, especially at top levels. Not to mention the fact that little mac has the GLARING weakness of his recovery. Now against bayonetta, you have to play defensively no matter where you are, not just in the center 1/3 of the stage. And unlike little mac, you cant just back throw her off stage at 50% and expect the kill. Now, im not asking that she die at 50% like macs tend to (and hes STILL not a very bad character), but i think its fair to say that, it should be a rare sight to see a bayonetta live past 120%.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Is it bad that I have another account I just can't remember the pass word because I haven't used it since December. And I'm not complaining I just want to find a middle ground for everyone because if youre a casual this won't fly. I enjoy the challenge of figuring out the most optimal way to beat people because thats how you actually get good.

You know what they say, the key to failure is to try and appeal to everyone.

 

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

Get rid of her frame 1 air dodge/spot dodge/roll and ill be satisfied. I can live with being getting bodied by a sick combo, but i want to be able to come back with a sick combo or sequence of my own. Its REALLY hard to do that when my opponent can litterly just simultaneously mash air dodge with ine hand while giving me the finger with the other XD tbh, i like her death combos, its how her character was meant to work. Play her games, its what she does. The dev team just needs to fix her rediculously good risk:reward ratio. Nerf bat within. Nerf witch time a bit more. Decrease weight. She deserves to have a terrible roll/spot dodge/air dodge, and to be maybe the lightest character as well. She fits into the cast as a glass cannon.

If they really wanted to make her like her game then put no knock back/flinch on half of her moves lol but only reason I said what I said it because her game is more based on defense making a good offense with combos so she's not the offensive 0 to death smash makes her out to be. Bat within is like that in the fame and so is wotch time so I wouldnt expect those to change.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

18 characters has a frame 2 air dodge.
Bayonetta already has a very poor air dodge. It start on frame 5, has the most endlag of all air dodges. Air dodge punishers will love how bad her air dodge is.

 

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

You know what they say, the key to failure is to try and appeal to everyone.

Youre correct but I thought that would suffice not all these dodge nerfs because then we'd be fixing the root issue and this fix wouldn't change the way she play tooo much but just enough for an enjoyable experience.

 

[SkippyJ]

Really? Because, i havnt played her game, but i have watched lets plays and i LOVE the devil may cry series and from what ive seen, in her genera of game, most enemy's die to one or two complex combos. Maybe you are just not very good at action games? Because yes her attacks are weak but people who are good at her games im sure can kill just about any enemy with one or two combos. Remnicent of her smash incarnation.

 

[SkippyJ]

18 characters has a frame 2 air dodge.
Bayonetta already has a very poor air dodge. It start on frame 5, has the most endlag of all air dodges. Air dodge punishers will love how bad her air dodge is.

You suggest we dont nerf her, then?

 

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

Would that kinda ruin the point of Bayonetta, though?
She's fine as she is, really, we need to learn how to play against her. Some even say she's not the best in the game.

Im not even pressed about it I'm just the solution guy lol. And her point is to combo what I said doesn't effect her combo game to a huge degree. She the combo character not the off the top kill character. Even so in her game she's more based around her witch time and finishers(which translate to smash attacks) which is what the intended idea was. The combos were just to supposed to rack up damage for the finisher(like her game) but then we discovered how easy it is to carry someone off the top.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

You suggest we dont nerf her, then?

Not yet.

 

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

Really? Because, i havnt played her game, but i have watched lets plays and i LOVE the devil may cry series and from what ive seen, in her genera of game, most enemy's die to one or two complex combos. Maybe you are just not very good at action games? Because yes her attacks are weak but people who are good at her games im sure can kill just about any enemy with one or two combos. Remnicent of her smash incarnation.

That is a fair point but you have to think of it this way. We're not grunts that come in hordes. Were more like the Jeanne battle it's all about combos but also being defensive and punishing hard you can't just end her in two combos you have to rack up light damage then wait for witch time and then lay the smack down. And boy/girl what you talkin! lol I try for Stylin/Smokin and on the rare occasion Sadistic(in DMC) all the time lol but you have to take into account bayonetta is a defensive Dante. He can wreck enemies Bayo on the other hand was given the witch tike to compensate. You can see this direction when they attack comparatively. Dante wrecks and while Bayo relies more on punishes and wicked weaves to deal the heavier damage. Dante makes enemies flinch from damage and Bayo not so much in fact some enemies can counter attack her while she's attacking so you're forced to dodge as per basis of her game.

 

[Lavani]

Adding helpless to WT2 doesn't just damage kill combos, it makes WT2 punishable on hit. At ceiling height, followed by a drop into 32/43 frames of landing lag. Even with her potential damage that's some poor risk:reward to set yourself up for an early kill or giving the opponent a free combo in return.

If the goal's to strip her ceiling carry kills, I'd rather propose adding endlag to the fourth B move used.

WT1->ABK1->WT2->ABK2->uair is currently easy to do and kills early. +12 frames of endlag for ending on ABK2 would turn it into a 50/50 instead of a sure kill. +15 frames would allow opponents to jump out until around fthrow kill percent.

dABK1->dABK2->WT1->WT2->uair is a lot tighter and it'd only take something as minor as, say, +5 frames of endlag to make it guaranteed at a more reasonable percent.

It's a small tweak that would meaningfully impact her low-mid% kill combos without affecting her damage racking or changing how the character plays.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

And again with little mac, while similar in a vacume, its entirely different in context. Barely top 100 little macs are not beating top 10 players with only a couple weeks practice. Yeah mac might be scary and you might wanna play defensively against him in the center 1/3 of the stage where he shines, but on the other 2/3, the outer two thirds, you are actually going to want to play fairly aggressive, trying to knock him off and go for the gimp before he regains center stage. Its an intense and volitile battle for stage control that only RARELY becomes a waiting game, especially at top levels. Not to mention the fact that little mac has the GLARING weakness of his recovery. Now against bayonetta, you have to play defensively no matter where you are, not just in the center 1/3 of the stage. And unlike little mac, you cant just back throw her off stage at 50% and expect the kill. Now, im not asking that she die at 50% like macs tend to (and hes STILL not a very bad character), but i think its fair to say that, it should be a rare sight to see a bayonetta live past 120%.

Week one success doesn't mean much. Most week one Little Macs we see were scrubs while the most Bayonetta we see are veteran at the game spending hours in the lab with her, not a lot of people knows the matchup. Plus, I don't think there was any tournaments week one and there was, like, 51 characters to mess with.

I didn't really say you have to play a certain way against Little Mac, many people did. So much people were crying about how different Little Mac is and how the only way to beat him is by camping at the ledge and toss him off. As you just proved, those people were very wrong, don't become one of them.

Bayonetta sports a very poor framedata, many of her normal moves have quite the start up.
Her fastest move is Witch Twist frame 4, all her other moves has at least 7 frames of startup.
This give her a poor neutral but a potent punish game very similar in the veins of ZSS.

TBH Bayonetta living past 120% is kinda rare (unless she was up against Sheik), Bayonetta is fairly light.

 

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

Adding helpless to WT2 doesn't just damage kill combos, it makes WT2 punishable on hit. At ceiling height, followed by a drop into 32/43 frames of landing lag. Even with her potential damage that's some poor risk:reward to set yourself up for an early kill or giving the opponent a free combo in return.

If the goal's to strip her ceiling carry kills, I'd rather propose adding endlag to the fourth B move used.

WT1->ABK1->WT2->ABK2->uair is currently easy to do and kills early. +12 frames of endlag for ending on ABK2 would turn it into a 50/50 instead of a sure kill. +15 frames would allow opponents to jump out until around fthrow kill percent.

dABK1->dABK2->WT1->WT2->uair is a lot tighter and it'd only take something as minor as, say, +5 frames of endlag to make it guaranteed at a more reasonable percent.

It's a small tweak that would meaningfully impact her low-mid% kill combos without affecting her damage racking or changing how the character plays.

But I feel that is the necessary risk. You can still do a lot of percent in a combo without the second witch twist. Bayonetta should be a high risk high reward character seeing as her move set deems her to be more reactive than the current way people are playing her. And people misunderstand the effectiveness of what I'm saying. It makes her edge-guard-able so she is more manageable and takes away the fact that she can do her carry combo that will kill if done perfectly.

What people don't see is that the meta has re-purposed her deviating from the original idea Sakurai had when making her and even more so from her game style which I mentioned a few posts before this one. She's meant to be a combo-comb-big finish off of punish character. If you could do this in Bayonetta it would be a lot easier to net kills. The smash attacks were made strong for that very reason and witch time lasts long for the same but some people want it nerfed because now she has irregularities which make people think her main gimmick isn't as necessary as some combo we've over perfected and made better than Sakurai originally though it was going to be.

Sakurai expected us to stop at the second witch twist it's even directly shown in the big combo she does in the direct. They wanted witch time to be the thing that lead to someone using a smash attack because of how long and frail that move is. Fighting gaming feng shui at it's best. But that's here nor there since I can't do a thing about it but say what I understand whether or not it's understood or accepted as such by my peers is another thing

But to retort to your idea it wouldn't do the character justice since it doesn't represent how the character is portrayed if you've played Bayonetta her and end lag haven't met lol unless you switch weapons from her default guns or use the break dance move which she inherently does a pose.

Edit: 8:45 in the video says otherwise actually. But most of my arguement still makes sense.

 

[SoccerStar9001]

But I feel that is the necessary risk. You can still do a lot of percent in a combo without the second witch twist. Bayonetta should be a high risk high reward character seeing as her move set deems her to be more reactive than the current way people are playing her. And people misunderstand the effectiveness of what I'm saying. It makes her edge-guard-able so she is more manageable and takes away the fact that she can do her carry combo that will kill if done perfectly.

What people don't see is that the meta has re-purposed her deviating from the original idea Sakurai had when making her and even more so from her game style which I mentioned a few posts before this one. She's meant to be a combo-comb-big finish off of punish character. If you could do this in Bayonetta it would be a lot easier to net kills. The smash attacks were made strong for that very reason and witch time lasts long for the same but some people want it nerfed because now she has irregularities which make people think her main gimmick isn't as necessary as some combo we've over perfected and made better than Sakurai originally though it was going to be.

Sakurai expected us to stop at the second witch twist it's even directly shown in the big combo she does in the direct. They wanted witch time to be the thing that lead to someone using a smash attack because of how long and frail that move is. Fighting gaming feng shui at it's best. But that's here nor there since I can't do a thing about it but say what I understand whether or not it's understood or accepted as such by my peers is another thing

But to retort to your idea it wouldn't do the character justice since it doesn't represent how the character is portrayed if you've played Bayonetta her and end lag haven't met lol unless you switch weapons from her default guns or use the break dance move which she inherently does a pose.

The amount of combos you can do significantly drops if you are unable to do anything after the second witch twist as Bayonetta's opponent goes above her very often. The second Witch Twist also pops the opponent right in front of her so she will be instantly punished, making the second Witch Twist useless and unnecessarily complex her recovery. She might as well as have only one Witch Twist. And the direct already shown you can combo after the second Witch Twist, going back on that is like going back on Corrin's SideB can't stick to the ground.
If you are gonna nerf a combo character's combo, you should nerf Little Mac's ground attacks.
Sakurai has shown he was aware that the second Witch Twist being able to combo during the part he said "combo like these a more than possible". Check 8:45 of your video

 

[DarthKanyeTheSavior]

The amount of combos you can do significantly drops if you are unable to do anything after the second witch twist as Bayonetta's opponent goes above her very often. The second Witch Twist also pops the opponent right in front of her so she will be instantly punished, making the second Witch Twist useless and unnecessarily complex her recovery. She might as well as have only one Witch Twist. And the direct already shown you can combo after the second Witch Twist, going back on that is like going back on Corrin's SideB can't stick to the ground.
If you are gonna nerf a combo character's combo, you should nerf Little Mac's ground attacks.
Sakurai has shown he was aware that the second Witch Twist being able to combo during the part he said "combo like these a more than possible". Check 8:45 of your video

I was litterally going for the edit just as I saw that. My point is irrelavant in that case. Lol
Case Closed. That's all I would've done if I was in charge but maybe things wouldve been different if it was like what I said from the get go. Oh well like I said I'm not pressed about it I just thought I had a good solution. If thats the case then like you said no nerfs.

Edit: Who started complaining so much anyways that videos were coming out the wood works about it?

 

[SoccerStar9001]

Darth, I also want to note there is a risk from using the second UpB, and it comes in the form of extra landing lag.
If you remember, Bayonetta get more landing lag if she abuse too much specials in the air. I think this will be very important to dealing with Bayonetta in the future.

 

[pikazz]

the only "fix" I can see on Bayonetta is 2 things:

her dABK is launching her and the opponent just little lower than usual. like instead for the height it gives right now, it only gives like 90% of the height which kills alot of 0-death combos on Ground level but still is enough for Baiting the opponent to Shorthop or from an DTilt for an possible deathcombo

and her Witch Time is now also damage scaled together with timescale and "the opponent %" scale.
let say that if someone is jabbing Bayo on a fresh WT, the WT only is enough time for a small punish like DTilt, Grab or Jabs and not an weak Smash.

Jabbing a Bayo on a fresh WT but having like 100% is enough for an half charged UpSmash and not 2 UpSmashes as it use to be

Falcon Punch Bayo on fresh WT at 0% gives him longer WT to punish than a jab should do.

Falcon Punch Bayo on fresh WT at 100% gives him like 3-4 Seconds WT for an fully charged UpSmash and something more just like it is right now

 

[SoccerStar9001]

the only "fix" I can see on Bayonetta is 2 things:

her dABK is launching her and the opponent just little lower than usual. like instead for the height it gives right now, it only gives like 90% of the height which kills alot of 0-death combos on Ground level but still is enough for Baiting the opponent to Shorthop or from an DTilt for an possible deathcombo

and her Witch Time is now also damage scaled together with timescale and "the opponent %" scale.
let say that if someone is jabbing Bayo on a fresh WT, the WT only is enough time for a small punish like DTilt, Grab or Jabs and not an weak Smash.

Jabbing a Bayo on a fresh WT but having like 100% is enough for an half charged UpSmash and not 2 UpSmashes as it use to be

Falcon Punch Bayo on fresh WT at 0% gives him longer WT to punish than a jab should do.

Falcon Punch Bayo on fresh WT at 100% gives him like 3-4 Seconds WT for an fully charged UpSmash and something more just like it is right now

It is impossible to perform a 0 to death from a ground level, Uair doesn't have the kill power to do it at early%. Bayonetta's 0 to death always starts with a hit in the air (usually after either Utilt or Dtilt from the ground) following up with ABKs and WTwists, then finishing with an Uair (sometime WTwist finishing them off without needing an Uair). I am not too sure if lowering Dive Kick would do much good, it is still good at combo and it isn't exactly the move that drag people off the top it is WTwist and uABK.

If WTime is scaled with damage it would be useless against Sheik and it already decays from overuse by 75 frames per uses and gains 3.6 frames per second (0.06 per frame). People just has to respect WTime and look at it as just another counter, at least WTime can't be spammed and has to be used carefully as it take around 21 seconds for it to fully recharge the first use.
Plus you could try spot dodging if you used a low cool down move, since you can still act it slow down.