My 13.0.0 Tier List

[stixie]

This tier list is MY PERSONAL OPINION of where fighters are at 13.0.0. There IS one final patch 13.0.1 which says "fighter adjustments" but personally I think it'll just be bug fixes. If characters are greatly changed I'll come out with another.

Without further ado:

Spoiler: Tier List

I tried to order them as best as possible.

Here's some explanation of a few choices.

Spoiler: Explanations

1) Pyra/Mythra

• No, I do NOT believe they're the best character.
• No, I do NOT believe they're in the top 5.
• They have a great great neutral game (even pyra) but a BAD BAD recovery. This is showcased in Sparg0 and MkLeo's recent Grand Finals set.

2) Diddy

• I believe Diddy is HIGHLY underrated.
• Tweek just isn't as good as MkLeo (and Sparg0 imo) so he loses to those two but HOLY MOLY can he go bananas (pun intended of course) with this character.
• Banana changes the entire match.
• Diddy command grab is probably the best in the game and creates a dynamic where the other person doesn't want to shield because of it but DOES want to shield to keep from getting hit with banana. Kind of a unique character dichotomy that presents a lot of opportunities for Diddy.

3) Pac Man

• Has quite a few great results.
• Tea (nuff said)

4) Link

• Link is such a crazy character with combos that can just simply rob an opponent of their stock before they even know what hit them.
• Personally I think Botw Link is the best Link in the game due to bomb recovery, super high knockback hits, and crazy combos.
• One of the very best up b out of shield in the entire game. I mean seriously... this move has a huge hitbox, comes out frame 7, hits both sides, and kills. Great great move.
• Boomerang

5) Snake

• A bit overrated imo. Snake has a lot of sauce but seems to get overwhelmed by characters that can get in his face. MkLeo destroyed Marss Snake ONLINE with Marth of all characters. Now... I'm not basing this off of that one set I'm just saying I don't think Snake is as good as some say he is.

6) Sora

• Not sure on this one to be honest.
• Sora could go up or down based on actual results but they just don't exist yet.
• Based off of his kit and recent tournament play I think he's low high tier.

7) Luigi

• I'm struggling to put Luigi in his right place. On one hand you have Elegant going crazy with the character but then on the other hand he has a lot of RNG elements and he struggles HARD in certain matchups.
• 0 to death combo

8) Zelda

• This is my main and you can call me biased if you want to but she is NOT mid/low tier.
• Zelda has some of the best moves in the game (highest knockback ftilt in the game - well before Kazuya which I'm not sure about, one of if not the highest knockback up air in the game, phantom, her up b that travels far and hits above the ledge, down air that just got buffed, the 7 or 8 best back kill throw in the game... plus up throw that kills as well).
• Struggles with mobility and grab speed. Those are her main issues.
• I personally think this character is really good and very scary in the right hands.
• I'm also talking about OFFLINE not online.

9) Olimar

• Really taken a fall imo. Dabuz is the only top player on this character but he's (kinda?) dropped him for Min Min.

10) Marth

• This one is perhaps the most controversial but I truly think because of the inconsistencies of Marth's tippers he belongs down here in low tier.
• Good opponents constantly live to 200%.
• Tippers don't give proper reward for how difficult they are to hit.
• Roy/Lucina are simply better in every single way you can think of.
• MkLeo even says Marth sucks... that rates pretty high in my book as he LOVES Marth and would probably play him in tournament if he actually were a legit character.
• His "kill confirms" (quotes are intended) are pixel perfect, percent perfect, and nearly impossible to land (down air > fsmash, first hit of nair into fsmash).
• Side B is one of the most difficult moves to land in the entire game outside of moves that are SUPPOSE to be bad (like warlock punch).

The rest are pretty standard.

Let me know your thoughts!!

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

This tier list is MY PERSONAL OPINION of where fighters are at 13.0.0. There IS one final patch 13.0.1 which says "fighter adjustments" but personally I think it'll just be bug fixes. If characters are greatly changed I'll come out with another.

Without further ado:

Spoiler: Tier List

View attachment 339246

I tried to order them as best as possible.

Here's some explanation of a few choices.

Spoiler: Explanations

1) Pyra/Mythra

• No, I do NOT believe they're the best character.
• No, I do NOT believe they're in the top 5.
• They have a great great neutral game (even pyra) but a BAD BAD recovery. This is showcased in Sparg0 and MkLeo's recent Grand Finals set.

2) Diddy

• I believe Diddy is HIGHLY underrated.
• Tweek just isn't as good as MkLeo (and Sparg0 imo) so he loses to those two but HOLY MOLY can he go bananas (pun intended of course) with this character.
• Banana changes the entire match.
• Diddy command grab is probably the best in the game and creates a dynamic where the other person doesn't want to shield because of it but DOES want to shield to keep from getting hit with banana. Kind of a unique character dichotomy that presents a lot of opportunities for Diddy.

3) Pac Man

• Has quite a few great results.
• Tea (nuff said)

4) Link

• Link is such a crazy character with combos that can just simply rob an opponent of their stock before they even know what hit them.
• Personally I think Botw Link is the best Link in the game due to bomb recovery, super high knockback hits, and crazy combos.
• One of the very best up b out of shield in the entire game. I mean seriously... this move has a huge hitbox, comes out frame 7, hits both sides, and kills. Great great move.
• Boomerang

5) Snake

• A bit overrated imo. Snake has a lot of sauce but seems to get overwhelmed by characters that can get in his face. MkLeo destroyed Marss Snake ONLINE with Marth of all characters. Now... I'm not basing this off of that one set I'm just saying I don't think Snake is as good as some say he is.

6) Sora

• Not sure on this one to be honest.
• Sora could go up or down based on actual results but they just don't exist yet.
• Based off of his kit and recent tournament play I think he's low high tier.

7) Luigi

• I'm struggling to put Luigi in his right place. On one hand you have Elegant going crazy with the character but then on the other hand he has a lot of RNG elements and he struggles HARD in certain matchups.
• 0 to death combo

8) Zelda

• This is my main and you can call me biased if you want to but she is NOT mid/low tier.
• Zelda has some of the best moves in the game (highest knockback ftilt in the game - well before Kazuya which I'm not sure about, one of if not the highest knockback up air in the game, phantom, her up b that travels far and hits above the ledge, down air that just got buffed, the 7 or 8 best back kill throw in the game... plus up throw that kills as well).
• Struggles with mobility and grab speed. Those are her main issues.
• I personally think this character is really good and very scary in the right hands.
• I'm also talking about OFFLINE not online.

9) Olimar

• Really taken a fall imo. Dabuz is the only top player on this character but he's (kinda?) dropped him for Min Min.

10) Marth

• This one is perhaps the most controversial but I truly think because of the inconsistencies of Marth's tippers he belongs down here in low tier.
• Good opponents constantly live to 200%.
• Tippers don't give proper reward for how difficult they are to hit.
• Roy/Lucina are simply better in every single way you can think of.
• MkLeo even says Marth sucks... that rates pretty high in my book as he LOVES Marth and would probably play him in tournament if he actually were a legit character.
• His "kill confirms" (quotes are intended) are pixel perfect, percent perfect, and nearly impossible to land (down air > fsmash, first hit of nair into fsmash).
• Side B is one of the most difficult moves to land in the entire game outside of moves that are SUPPOSE to be bad (like warlock punch).

The rest are pretty standard.

Let me know your thoughts!!

I think that some of these are pretty good places to put them and I disagree with a lot. First of what I want to say is that I think that Toon Link is better than Young Link. He has more consistent bombs, a better disjoint, better Up-b OOS, higher weight, more consistent kill confirms, stronger moves in general, and a better kill throw in exchange for losing down throw combos. He can also mix up his drift better.

I think Zelda is honestly great in this game, but I would say that her grab speed is made up for by having a large standing grab and an amazing pivot grab. I just think that having fast grabs in this game doesn’t really matter because you cant grab most moves OOS even with 6 frame grabs (fastest in the game). In fact, I find pivot grabs are better to go for because most players have nasty spotdodge habits. In regards to F-tilt, it isn’t the strongest in the game behind Kazuya. Ganon, Link, Ike, Incineroar, and Roy all have stronger f-tilts (They are slower though).

As a Link main, I think you over value Up-b OOS. While it’s great against inexperienced players, good players usually only get hit by it 3 times in a match OOS. Mostly due to the fact that the meta is starting to revolve around ranged safe air moves the condition the opponent, which means that Up-B OOS only comes to play when the opponent overextends or makes a big mistake. If you whiff it as well, your eating a fully charged forward smash, even a Falcon punch. I would prefer to do BAIR or NAIR OOS. They have lower reward but lower risk. They also set up for frame traps and edge guards, which is links specialty. Bair and NAIR deserve to be bullet points more than up-b OOS especially because they give a character who usually struggles with frame data insanely quick moves that are also safe and spammable. That is not to be underestimated. More so, why did you put boomerang as a point instead of bomb? Bomb kills, edgeguards, ledge traps, combos, helps recovery, removes moves from the staleness queue despite not staling, and zones. The versatility this moves offers far outclasses boomerang.


The rest of your list was mostly agreeable though.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Instead of posting what I disagree with, I'll just post my own tier list:
(I know, it's just as bad as everyone else's :D)

 

[stixie]

In regards to F-tilt, it isn’t the strongest in the game behind Kazuya. Ganon, Link, Ike, Incineroar, and Roy all have stronger f-tilts (They are slower though).

You need to go into training mode and recheck this my friend. I think you'll be VERY surprised by the result.

Remember this buff from 7.0? It made it the best in the game.

Zelda & Samus Didn't Need Buffs

Super Smash Bros Ultimate 7.0.0 Balance Patch is here and Sakurai buffed the zoners! Zelda, Toon Link, Young Link and Samus all got buffed in the latest patc...

www.youtube.com

Check that youtube vid out. The 6 min mark is where they're talking about her ftilt.

Me personally, I use her ftilt literally ALL THE TIME. It's such an amazing move now and it kills MAD early. People just die and then you can see them sit on the landing platform for a few seconds like "what just happened to me".

Basically, it's a grounded lightning kick if you want a simple explanation. It also does 19 FREAKING PERCENT!! Yes you read that correctly... ONE NINE PERCENT.

Also just a little FYI, it DOES have a tipper you need to land.





As far as Link is concerned I watch people like Sillintor on youtube and I'm seeing that this character is literally DISGUSTING. Some of the z drop bomb combos are nuts. Up B OOS is something that you don't use over and over again. It's a surprise move you catch your opponent with when it will rob them of their stock. As a Zelda main I also have a killing up b but I NEVER use it until usually the end of the match when they're at 120% last stock. They dash attack my shield because they're not expecting the up b. Boomerang (imo) is the best projectile in the game... ok ok... MAYBE Mario fireball or Pika jolt... but it's at least right up there with those. It's kinda broken and leads into true fair combos if the sweet spot lands. I'm not a Link main but I've always found botw Link to be the best. There's a pretty good debate on it amongst the Smash tier listers though so #shrug

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

You need to go into training mode and recheck this my friend. I think you'll be VERY surprised by the result.

Remember this buff from 7.0? It made it the best in the game.
View attachment 339311

Zelda & Samus Didn't Need Buffs

Super Smash Bros Ultimate 7.0.0 Balance Patch is here and Sakurai buffed the zoners! Zelda, Toon Link, Young Link and Samus all got buffed in the latest patc...

www.youtube.com

Check that youtube vid out. The 6 min mark is where they're talking about her ftilt.

Me personally, I use her ftilt literally ALL THE TIME. It's such an amazing move now and it kills MAD early. People just die and then you can see them sit on the landing platform for a few seconds like "what just happened to me".

Basically, it's a grounded lightning kick if you want a simple explanation. It also does 19 FREAKING PERCENT!! Yes you read that correctly... ONE NINE PERCENT.

Also just a little FYI, it DOES have a tipper you need to land.

In forgot that they buffed that move into godhood.

 

[stixie]

I think Zelda is honestly great in this game, but I would say that her grab speed is made up for by having a large standing grab and an amazing pivot grab. I just think that having fast grabs in this game doesn’t really matter because you cant grab most moves OOS even with 6 frame grabs (fastest in the game). In fact, I find pivot grabs are better to go for because most players have nasty spotdodge habits.

Oh yeah I forgot to respond to this.

So I THINK Zelda's pivot grab is actually the best in the entire game (well maybe outside Luigi who can 0 to death you off of grab). That being said Zelda gets a LOT of damage and potential kills off her grab game. It's just very difficult to LAND a grab because of how slow it is. I rarely grab OOS because of how slow that is. OOS grabs as a whole are pretty bad. I'm mainly talking about her standing grab and dash grab. Both of them should be way faster. I think she should have a frame 6 standing grab. I'd use it a WHOLE lot more.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

I think she should have a frame 6 standing grab. I'd use it a WHOLE lot more.

Frame 6 grabs are usually reserved for short range grabs or grabs that don’t have a ton of reward. Zelda has both a long range grab and and ton of reward. Making a frame 6 grab with a heavily disjointed grab range while having a reliable combo throw and 3 kill kill throws would start having her already great traps even better would be overkill. And personally? I prefer slow grabs since it becomes easier to beat spotdodge with pivot grabs. Dash grabs should be laggy, at least in my book. She only needs like 1 frame taken off of the start up and I would be satisfied. Her standing grab should also be frame 9 IMO so it’s a bit easier to land.

So I THINK Zelda's pivot grab is actually the best in the entire game

It’s the best in terms of being a disjointed long ranged grab that isn’t very laggy. That thing is a war crime in how far it can reach.

 

[stixie]

It’s the best in terms of being a disjointed long ranged grab that isn’t very laggy. That thing is a war crime in how far it can reach.

LOLOL

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Instead of posting what I disagree with, I'll just post my own tier list:
(I know, it's just as bad as everyone else's :D)

Why do you think Falcon is Number 1?

 

[stixie]

Why do you think Falcon is Number 1?

Personally I don't think he ordered them. He just thinks he's top tier.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Why do you think Falcon is Number 1?

stixie is right.
It's alphabetical.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Has 13.0.1 changed your tier list?


It hasn't for me.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Has 13.0.1 changed your tier list?


It hasn't for me.

It has. I think Link has moved up a spot, and Ryu is 2 spots better for me.

 

[stixie]

Has 13.0.1 changed your tier list?


It hasn't for me.

Not too much. Honestly a few places might change (like Incineror or maybe DK) but for the most part everyone is staying the same.

 

[Linkmain-maybe]

Since it’s relevant I will post my Tier list here

A few things first.

1. Yes I feel Aegis are number one in the game.

2. Yes I think that Hero is better than a lot of the cast. Mostly because menu exists.

3. I don’t think PAC is top tier.

4. If you see any character in A or S tier above each other, don’t worry. I think that everyone of those characters are great so them being in those tiers is high praise from me already.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I'll throw my hat into the ring, attempting to weigh both results and how good I think the character is:

Spoiler: Tier List

A few explanations, I can explain about other characters if someone asks:

Spoiler: Explanations

• Yes I do think Pika's a little overrated.
• Feel like ROB and Sonic are a little underrated, they have been performing so well for so long.

• I think Kazuya's flaws hinder him a lot, and I've seen Kazuya players express similar sentiments.
• Yes, I do think Kirby and Zelda are a cut above a lot of the other not-so-good characters. Kirby's small with good combos and kill power. Buffs have helped Zelda a ton.
• The top 4 of my low tier have all gotten some pretty strong results as of late, if you wondered why I placed them above the others. Afaik it's been a while since the others have gotten results of note, though it's possible I missed something.