[MU] Sonic

[MrFrigid]

I'm not sure if I should be posting this in the big link matchup thread, but since this thread will be part of that thread I don't see the harm in specific character matchup threads.

Sonic is too fast. I understand the need for spacing and using bombs/arrows/rang effectively.

Please post anti-sonic videos and anti-sonic tactics.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Projectiles are pretty good against Sonic. Against a really good sonic player, you have to be really good at reading sonic's attacks since he moves really fast. Keep your smash attacks to a minimum and only use them when you know that it will connect. Jabs and Tilts are pretty important as well.

Example from the Video thread:

Powerstar9 vs. ?? [1] - http://youtu.be/kRM8mRVQzvY

 

[Ieven]

I tried this matchup several time against a pretty good Sonic, i find Sonic side b's really hard to punish, and i didn't found a way to punish it. The projectiles seems to only cancel his spin, even the jab.

Link is really sensitive to gimp in this matchup, we can comeback if we use projectiles smartly but it's still really tricky, especially with his Bup and Bair.

So if anyone knows how to deal with his side B, it would be great.

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

Nair. Sonic hates our Nair, it can challenge spin dashes and most aerials, and stays out long enough/cancels fast enough that he can't really punish it unless we nair his shield.

 

[Zelkam]

I don't think Nair can beat homing attack though. That move has stupidly high priority.

 

[ShinTwist ScreamPaste]

I've never tried, homing attack has really stupid attack angles and you don't know the angle it'll take until it's coming, and it comes too fast to get any strong hitbox out. I just shield it, but I'm willing to bet Uair goes through it like paper if we can predict the flight path.

 

[Dumbfire]

No, Nair can't stop homing attack. I've tried. You have to shield it, and there's no reliable way to punish it when it hits on shield. Uair or Usmash may work?

 

[skydogc]

No, Nair can't stop homing attack. I've tried. You have to shield it, and there's no reliable way to punish it when it hits on shield. Uair or Usmash may work?

Usmash usually takes care of it, though be careful of being predictable with it.

Best approach I have for sonic is Boomerang, bombs, and hardcore defensive play with jabbing and quick attacks.
Sonic's combos do no good if you can shield and dodge his grabs.
If he sits back and charges that spin attack on the ground, Arrow the sin out of him. If you jump over him, drop a bomb. Boomerang for a wall. Dtilt and Dsmash can be powerful when well timed.
If he chooses to go into the air, remember your Zair.

It's a patience game, but he'll mess up sooner or later.

Oh, and you can also catch a sonic off guard by a SH/FF/Dair as he's closing the distance, but it's risky, and you really really really really have to make sure it will for sure hit. Don't make it a habit. If you miss, you will be punished big time.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Nair. Sonic hates our Nair.

That's because nobody can BEAT the almighty Nair

 

[FSK]

What I do is I counterpick Sonic and I run around and dthrow them and then techchase them into oblivion until they stop playing sonic.

 

[mackman]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Sonic is one character who HEAVILY benefits from the slight lag of online play?

There are so many times where I feel like my moves are just a tiny fraction of a second too slow to react to his stupidly fast stuff...I feel like I have to play near perfectly while he can make lots of mistakes and escape punishment.

Not whining: If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. But does anyone else have tips for this match-up, besides "Play defensively and don't make any mistakes"?

 

[Lawz.]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Sonic is one character who HEAVILY benefits from the slight lag of online play?

There are so many times where I feel like my moves are just a tiny fraction of a second too slow to react to his stupidly fast stuff...I feel like I have to play near perfectly while he can make lots of mistakes and escape punishment.

Not whining: If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. But does anyone else have tips for this match-up, besides "Play defensively and don't make any mistakes"?

Soft bombs help to limit his approach options. I suggest you get familiar with that tactic. Also if you are having a hard time punishing spin dash, it's best to shield and follow the path Sonic is going along your shield and punish accordingly. For example, if the sonic likes to end spin dash above you, OoS uair isn't terrible. If you find that the sonic goes behind you, OoS bair or Nair works well too. Just be wary as the Sonic can adapt to you trying to punish and he can simply do spring after spin dash to get away. Of course if Sonic does spring away, camp his landing zone because he has horrible options when directly above an opponent.

The whole idea of this matchup is too put him where you want, which is farther away, so he has to commit to unsafe approach options. Easier said than done but it's true.

Bombs are your best friend in this matchup along with quick sword moves such as jab and utilt as anything laggier gives him an easy punish opportunity. Be wary of Sonic in rage as his back throw is a great kill move and it isn't hard for him to grab Link should you make an error.

And for those of you who like to punish with a grab, DO NOT. The risk outweighs the reward, find another move to punish with. If you whiff a grab, this gives Sonic enough time to put steaks on the grill, cook them to his desired tenderness, eat it and still have time to grab you. I will smack anyone who tries to punish Sonic with a grab.

If you get Sonic offstage, do not follow him. Stay grounded and chuck boomerang or shoot arrows to stuff his jumps and get extra damage. If you hop off dair and miss, prepare to get gimped by a spring.

 

[Elessar]

Something I noticed playing vs a friend (not sure how useful it is in fact) is that Sonic has a slight delay between his spin attack and his neutral special. What I mean is, this friend would spin attack (sideB) and after I shielded he'd get up in the air and charge B for a homing attack. Instead of trying to attack him I'd simply drop shield and dash. He'd miss with his homing attack and I would get a free punish.

Again, not sure how accurate or useful this would be at high levels of play, but I was able to score many punishes with this, and as a result he simply stopped spin attacking.

So, @ Camalange , care to shed some light on this MU from your end, and say how viable this that I'm saying is?

 

[Camalange]

I don't think Nair can beat homing attack though. That move has stupidly high priority.

The priority on it is kind of stupid. Depending on what it connects it'll trade or just straight up get beaten out, or beat you. Not even I can truly explain it, sorry. You can easily trounce it with a Usmash if you time it though. Probably Uair as well. Sonic's HA can be canceled halfway through to come out faster, so we have a very small mix-up on the timing.

Also, in this game, it will literally target things that will hurt him. Seriously. It works for Villager and DHD, so I'd imagine if you have well placed soft bombs, Sonic would just target them and blow himself up. Yup.

Nair. Sonic hates our Nair, it can challenge spin dashes and most aerials, and stays out long enough/cancels fast enough that he can't really punish it unless we nair his shield.

I hate Nair.

I've never tried, homing attack has really stupid attack angles and you don't know the angle it'll take until it's coming, and it comes too fast to get any strong hitbox out. I just shield it, but I'm willing to bet Uair goes through it like paper if we can predict the flight path.

HA is partially confused for having priority for this reason, imo.

It hits at weird angles... So most think it has good priority but really it's just coming at you in a way that is punishing your action. Most Sonic's will use it to stall their fall or if they think you're going to press a button. It's pretty fun.

Other fun fact: Homing attack aims for the back of a character's hurtbox... Hence the strange angles.

You can definitely challenge this move, but shielding it is ideal in most situations if you don't think you can time the interception. Sonic can now hold in directions after he bounces though, so we can move farther away if it connects with a hurtbox/shield, which makes it a little more difficult to punish, but definitely still can be. The even better thing to do though is time a spotdodge against HA. Sonic loses his homing if the opponent is invincible, and we'll just plummet into the ground with immense ending lag, waiting to be punished.

No, Nair can't stop homing attack. I've tried. You have to shield it, and there's no reliable way to punish it when it hits on shield. Uair or Usmash may work?

It's hard to say if there's a reliable way to punish OoS, but you have to just read based off our positioning.

Uair should work, and Usmash should be just fine. It works for pretty much everyone.

Usmash usually takes care of it, though be careful of being predictable with it.

Yup.

Best approach I have for sonic is Boomerang, bombs, and hardcore defensive play with jabbing and quick attacks.
Sonic's combos do no good if you can shield and dodge his grabs.

All you said here was Sonic's combos don't work if you land them... Can be said about literally any match-up.

You should be working with the first part of what you said. Link's zoning game is what saves him here, but if Sonic gets in you're going to have to hope to get a jab out in time or else Sonic will escape from the combo city.

If he sits back and charges that spin attack on the ground, Arrow the sin out of him. If you jump over him, drop a bomb. Boomerang for a wall. Dtilt and Dsmash can be powerful when well timed.

If we're charging a spin attack, we're most likely trying to see how you react. We'd most likely be conditioning with Side-B, so we'd just cancel with shield to PS the arrow. Doesn't mean you shouldn't still go for it, but keep this in mind. We're not looking to spin right at you because we're not FG Sonics here. We know his approaches are bad. We're going to make you think they're good.

If he chooses to go into the air, remember your Zair.

You probably have better options than Zair against Sonic... Like SH Nair.

It's a patience game, but he'll mess up sooner or later.

We can say the same about Link. One bad bomb pull or boomerang toss and we're in there. Sonic is the king of punishing inputs.

Oh, and you can also catch a sonic off guard by a SH/FF/Dair as he's closing the distance, but it's risky, and you really really really really have to make sure it will for sure hit. Don't make it a habit. If you miss, you will be punished big time.

That sounds like a really bad idea.

That's a rogue mix-up, and not something that I would factor as a part of this match-up... Save your mumbo jumbo theory craft.

What I do is I counterpick Sonic and I run around and dthrow them and then techchase them into oblivion until they stop playing sonic.

Have fun with that.

Literally every time people rage counterpick me online I demolish them in the ditto and taunt forever. It pleases me. Go ahead. Make my day. I save every replay.

Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about.

So true. QFT.

Something I noticed playing vs a friend (not sure how useful it is in fact) is that Sonic has a slight delay between his spin attack and his neutral special. What I mean is, this friend would spin attack (sideB) and after I shielded he'd get up in the air and charge B for a homing attack. Instead of trying to attack him I'd simply drop shield and dash. He'd miss with his homing attack and I would get a free punish.

I suppose it's possible. If he's initiating HA close enough though there's definitely better options than "run away" (one does not simply run away from Sonic...). You can probably just Nair him before the HA comes out.

Also, they shouldn't be using HA that often out of spin dash... Especially if you're shielding the spin dash... It's super unsafe in general. Lawz has the right idea about most Sonic mindsets in that scenario.

If I hit shield I'll almost never HA unless I'm going for some kind of read. I only go for the HA out of spin dash if it connects, because at most percents you can combo right into a shortened HA.

I can go into some other specifics later but I figured I'd start with what was said. I also trust Lawz to be able to properly inform you all as we've played this match-up a billion times over.

 

[Elessar]

@ Camalange Your input is extremely valued. Thank you. We need to play again sometime so I can test what I mentioned and keep learning the MU. You rektd me too well last time. I must have my revenge.

 

[Camalange]

@ Camalange Your input is extremely valued. Thank you.

It's always a displeasure here at the Link boards.

We need to play again sometime so I can test what I mentioned and keep learning the MU. You rektd me too well last time. I must have my revenge.

Sounds good, definitely would be easier to recreate the scenario than me trying theorycraft and visualize it.

Hey man you took some rounds off me though! I'm always caught off guard by how early Link's Fsmash can kill wow can you add that to the match-up like just catch Sonic doing anything with a Fsmash and kill at 60% that's my advice also lag johns on both ends LOL

From what I can tell, Link wins this match-up when he's zoning and stuffing approaches. Especially with soft bombs, it's almost like Snake all over again.

Sonic wins if he gets in and gets you in the air/offstage. His punish and gimp game is real.

 

[Elessar]

It's always a displeasure here at the Link boards.

Sounds good, definitely would be easier to recreate the scenario than me trying theorycraft and visualize it.

Hey man you took some rounds off me though! I'm always caught off guard by how early Link's Fsmash can kill wow can you add that to the match-up like just catch Sonic doing anything with a Fsmash and kill at 60% that's my advice also lag johns on both ends LOL

From what I can tell, Link wins this match-up when he's zoning and stuffing approaches. Especially with soft bombs, it's almost like Snake all over again.

Sonic wins if he gets in and gets you in the air/offstage. His punish and gimp game is real.

Thanks, and the lag was too real to be called a John. And yeah, something I found out, and iirc you did too, was that nair beats Sonic's uair which is a life saver. Also, a tipped uncharged fsmash can kill sonic really fast, at around 50% actually if you're both at the Ledge and the blast zones are not so far away. However, the second fsmash hit can kill sonic at 70% I believe, though my memory could be failing me. In any case, imo it's a lot better to try to kill sonic with the side blast zones than the vertical one. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Camalange]

Thanks, and the lag was too real to be called a John.

The struggle is real.

And yeah, something I found out, and iirc you did too, was that nair beats Sonic's uair which is a life saver.

So dumb.

I want to try again. Sonic's Uair is disjointed too… How did Nair keep winning… Stupid move.

Also, a tipped uncharged fsmash can kill sonic really fast, at around 50% actually if you're both at the Ledge and the blast zones are not so far away. However, the second fsmash hit can kill sonic at 70% I believe, though my memory could be failing me. In any case, imo it's a lot better to try to kill sonic with the side blast zones than the vertical one. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Fsmash wrecks.

I guess it depends… Sonic gets wrecked from below so vertical kills are at least more advantageous. Sonic's recovery is good so horizontal will probably require more work as opposed to juggling from below and never letting him land.

 

[ZSaberLink]

Watching Genix's Link v. Sonic match, it seems like the soft bomb throw can be useful, as it kind of messes with Sonic's ground approach.

 

[Dumbfire]

And what if no one wants to commit? I agree that the Sonic MU is not in Link's favor, but it's not like Link really needs to approach.

I don't mean approach by commit, of course Sonic will do the approaching. I played Ixis too, and when a Sonic is near you, you will have to do something, naturally. Throw out even a Jab and he can get a grab, he can trick you into all kinds of nasty situations. He can bait attacks, rolls, spotdodges, everything possible and it's very easy for him to punish. What you can see him do here for instance is bait by charging spin attack up close, then cancelling and going for a pivot grab. He is so fast too I barely had time to pull out bombs, he can be in your face in an instant -- and he needs only one punish to have a major advantage, which he has the moment we are in the air.

I mean, naturally I was just outplayed it's more than just the MU, but this is a common pattern with Sonics. Link is slow and unsafe, Sonic is the reverse. Who do you figure wins?

See Staticmanny who had to switch from his Link to Sonic to beat a Sonic who was worse than him, KirinBlaze who lost to Ixis in tourney 2-1 (while knowing the MU, which he has posted about in social and which is evident from his set against DJ Relly from Apex), or Lawz who knows the MU from years of playing Cam and will tell you it's easily in Sonic's favor.

I agree that it's annoying and campy, and tedious, but the times I've lost to a Sonic have been due to time out.

And they will gladly do that -- or at least play patient enough for it to potentially come to that.

 

[Drigo Toes]

From my experience to sonics, Link can win just if Sonic kindly get hit careless by our proyectiles. Sonic can do any type of trick to put 5% on our counter and then run all the match... We lack the speed to approuch and our moves are laggy and punishable.

Even get a bomb is punishable due the speed travel. And many of his moves are not readable in a easy way. As DF said, even a Jab can be used to hurt us...

In the best case scenario, i'll say 6-4 in Sonic's Favor...

 

[JTF]

I play against Arikie(Best Sonic in the WC) and It goes pretty evenly even with the Hammer spin dash. Sonic will always try to approach you with it and your nair destroys Sonic. Best thing to do is just to sit in sheild when he comes to you then do a OoS nair once he comes down from the Hammer spin dash and then follow up with a bomb, boomerang, jab, grab, etc. It is easier to punish with regular spindash since it isn't invincible, so you can just do almost anything and it can stop it.

 

[Lawz.]

I play against Arikie(Best Sonic in the WC) and It goes pretty evenly even with the Hammer spin dash. Sonic will always try to approach you with it and your nair destroys Sonic. Best thing to do is just to sit in sheild when he comes to you then do a OoS nair once he comes down from the Hammer spin dash and then follow up with a bomb, boomerang, jab, grab, etc. It is easier to punish with regular spindash since it isn't invincible, so you can just do almost anything and it can stop it.

Why would Sonic only approach with a spindash when he's fast enough to run and shield projectiles? Or better yet, dash and shield careless nairs?

Sonic's most effective approach against Link is run and shield, not spindash.

 

[GerMoj]

About this MU, I would Like to post this video where Izaw shows how can Link consistently beat Sonic

I'll try to analyze the MU on each round separately and then I'll conclude with a general strategy.


MATCH 1

Spoiler

Izaw shows that Link doesn't need to be only defensive when facing Sonic, yeah,our blue enemy is realy fast, but we have some nice tricks in our huge backpack. First of all, Izaw is not camping but puting in some proyectile based walls. Short Hop Bomb Pull (SHBP) and Full Hop Bomb Pull (FHBP) grants Link the mobility to pull them out without being punished (in most cases) mixing them up is crucial as this way you keeo Sonic guessing which height it needs ti watch out.

Mostly, Izaw uses SHBP when going on the offensive, mixing it up with boomerang and Uncharged Arrows, when going on the defensive, Izaw mostly uses FHBP as he can toss them down without getting hit if Sonic gets greedy and tries to punish us. FHBP also makes a good offensive tool because if Sonic doesn't comes to you, you can Soft Toss the bombs within the jump.

When Sonic gets close Izaw usually does a SHFF N-air, if it hits it "resets" the neutral or gives some follows depending if it is sweetspotted. Also SH / SHFF B-air helps Izaw punish Sonic when he spin dashes and jumps, tries to aproach from behind or does something risky.

In the edeguard department, edgeguarding seems viable under one condition: DON'T GO BELOW SONIC, his Dair and Nair when edgeguarding contemplated Sonic's Up-B or Jump going into the the hitbox (intercepting) not the hitbox going for Sonic (chasing)

Grab attempts from Izaw were futile and few, because Sonic can rapidly react to these and punish accordingly. Taliking about punishes, proyectiles and aerials seem to be right depending on Sonic's location and %

On recovery, tether grab (while retaining a bomb) makes Link move quicker and enables a safer Jump Ledge Option, while boomerang stops Sonic's attempt to gimp him.

Finally, Jab Cancel Confirmationl (JCC) can lead into a U-Smash to get the KO.


Note: This is a flat stage with no platforms, making Sonic's aproach better because it makes it harder for Link to pull out his proyectiles.

MATCH 2

Spoiler

In this Match, Izaw is playing a little more passive as he isn't going all agro against Sonic. Proyectiles are still importante as the keep zoning Sonic. Make importance of SHBP and FHBP mixing it up with boomerang to keep Sonic at a safe distance. Izaw zones Sonic at a ficed distance most of the time in range of boomerang and bombs.

When Sonic gets a little too personal, we can see that B-airs and N-airs can do the trick of pushing it out, letting Link rack up some damage and some boomerang strings and follow ups.

Too Happy Jump Sonic, Z-air seems to work, but don't use it as often because besides the "You can't touch me" option, it leads to nothing and can be heavily punished if mispaced or whiffed.

Againt we see a D-air connecting. The same strategy works here Intercept, don't Chase.

Note: This Stage has a moving platform. Since Sonic is more a horizontal character, the platforms allow better options for Link, extending strings, getting safer recovery options, pulling out bombs and punishing when Sonic tries to come down from it.

MATCH 3

Spoiler

Weel this gets interesting. The first stock went horrible for Izaw, Ixis learned his gameplay and started punishing brutally, with micro spacing, power shielding and input errors Ixis kicked Izaw's ass on the first stock.

Ixis took something of Izaw's gameplay while edgeguarding: Inercepting, not Chasing. That spring really did lot's of damage and pressure because Izaw hadn't the air time to safely throw a boomerang and Up-B back into the stage. Finally, he got back into the stage by letting Ixis put down the spring and then going above it.

What we can learn frome this is that you must keep the pressure on Sonic smartly. Keeping a pattern on proyectiles will only make us brutally punished and easily doomed.

Izaw later adjusted t Ixis new tactics, he began playing Reactively. Instead of throwing proyectiles in a constant stream (not spamming, just zoning) he began to punish with them. He waited for Ixis to move and then react accordingly by reatreating, punishing or just keeping up the pressure.

Too bad he SD because that last stock seemed like a legenedary one.

Note: The moving platforms helped Sonic this time, as they proveded shelter against Link's proyectiles and doing great mix ups to fake him out. Also Link needs to have it's teching abilities on point, to have a better chance of not getting stage spiked / gimped.

MATCH 4

Spoiler

Delfino Plaza makes Link have a better time against Sonic. Areas where you can be on higher ground without the option of getting hit from below (Shine Gate and Rooftops) transform Link into a a Happy Camper. The street fighting becomes nice beacuse you can Zone to Death Sonic (boomerang Kill, LOL), the bad thing is that Sonic gets a lot of ground to run and make havoc.) We see that the adjustments made by Izaw on his second Stock of Match 3 carried along and gave him good results, he did the patience game and finally won this match.

Note: Link seems to play better on the ground this time. The platform between transformations makes Sonic happy because he can just run around Link because of the big space between platforms,

MATCH 5

Spoiler

This time Izaw plays much more defensivele than usual. He makes several mistakes throught the match, most of them being throwing proyectiles when being to close and not relying on offensive options to relieve pressure. Everytime Izaw spot dodged, rolled or airdodged Ixis punished with a grab or something alse rackin up damage rapidly.

At high %, our invincibility frame on the ledge are reduced, making us gimpable with a spring just because we took some time thinking what to do.

Another Highlight is Gale Guarding. Even though proably Izaw, threw the boomerang to hit Ixis rather than Gale Guard him it might seem as a viable option when Gale Guarding is on point. Throwing the boomerang to the center of the arena and then dropping (preferebly with a bomb in hand) to Gale Guard might be an option, also ledge Gale Guarding might work. It is a highlight we need to investigate in Link's meta.

MATCH 6

Spoiler

We see a totally different Link here. In the first matches, Izaw was all about proeyectiles and zoning witht them to rack up damage. Here is the total opposite as it's man form of damage is the standard A attacks. This match shows off that in the end, more than the matchup, what is important is the basic we carry on. Good and bad habits, conditioning, reads and mixups made the match pretty even because of the high skill of both players.

battlefield seemed to help link a lot because the platforms are really close to each other, making it possible for Link to evade Sonic's rushdown and also zone with soft bombs and other proyectiles.

Finally, Izaw get the the most important KO with a grab, yes, WITH A GRAB. This doesn't means we should fish for grabs everytime, just condition our oponent not to think oubout our grabs. At that distance, Ixis had de the team to spotdodge, but because Izaw rarely used grabs he didn't expected him to get the KO that way. So, grabbing is OK, but you need to do it ONLY WHEN YOU NEED IT.

Analazyng the battle gave me another vision of what to do in this matchup. I'll put up some of the most important points:

1).- Zoning

Keep up the proyectile game on your favor, try not to repeat yourself because this will make the Sonic player catch up with our game and brutally plow through you. Also keeping him in a fixed distance is crucial to keep the damage and the wall up. Half Final Destination seems to do the trick, maybe a little more

2).- Offense is the best defense

Sonic has the ability to punish extremely well our defensive manouvers becouse of one simple thing: Speed. Our rolls, spotdodges and air dodges are pretty much punishable by reaction for sonic. Roll can be dash attacked or grabed, even D-Smashed. Spotdodge is almost the same, adding that a really strong and lingering U-Smash from Sonic can kill us if the punish accordingly. Air dodging also gives us more lag than the one needed, and Link is not so fast.

Landing with a bomb and N-air seems a pretty safe option to land on most cases, try to use it. And when Sonic gets to close, a well spaced N-air / B-air can releave the pressure and reset the neutral. Take into notice to space it correclte, we don't wanna get shield grabbed. In aerial terms, sonic can't do that much as N-air ibeats many of its aerials (I think it looses to Sonic's B-air and maybe N-air). Because aerials dont clash, and sonics F-air is a multihit, you might trade with him, but Sonic might get a sweetspoted N-air and you one hit of F-air. Possibly a good trade.

3).- Bombs are our best friends.

Keep a bomb in hand everytime Sonic is at the optimal range or more, you don't know how that bomb can save you in many situations. Remember to SHBP or FHBP to keep moving and making it harder to punish. Also everytime you are offstage, get your bomb, it can save your live in case you get gimped.

4).- Fight for the ledge.

Yep, Sonic can gimp us really good, don't give him the chance to place a spring. A well timed boomerang can do the trick.

5).-Intercepting and not chasing.

When you edgeguard, try to trick Sonic into going to your hitbox, moving your hitbox to Sonic may mean total doom.

6).- Polish all your tools

You need most of your tools to make it through, JCC, Gale Guarding, Soft Bombs, Combos, Teching and god knows what new tools we will discover with Link.

7).- Hey! Listen! Watch Out! (things that Sonic can really do to hurt you)

-Spring
-Foostool
-Jab-lock
-Rushdown
-Punish (laggy moves, dodges, rolls)

8).- It's all about the bass... I mean... basics.

Last match we didn't see flashy things, risky edgeguards or superhot combos, it was all about conditioning and reading that let Izaw place that grab and KO. It was unsafe, really unsafe, but with good basics i it all comes to a player vs player match instead of a character vs character matchup.

 

[Shadow_13]

NAir is insanely good against him. Grabbing is a bad option here unless you notice the Sonic loves to run in with a spin dash - shield cancel grab (Super annoying). Then you can punish him with a grab. Still, don't rely on the tactic. If he likes to do retreating attacks, your FAir spaces well with it's disjointed hurtbox. If you get a free second, place a bomb on the ground and have another in the air. When Sonic is off stage and NOT spin dashing to get on, then feel free to drop low with a NAir or stay right by the ledge with a DAir. Free stage spike.

 

[Catana]

NAir is insanely good against him.

Its so insanely good he can just run up and shieldgrab it

If he likes to do retreating attacks, your FAir spaces well with it's disjointed hurtbox.

hitbox*

If you get a free second, place a bomb on the ground and have another in the air. When Sonic is off stage and NOT spin dashing to get on, then feel free to drop low with a NAir or stay right by the ledge with a DAir. Free stage spike.

Thank you once again for your wisdom, I didnt know stage spikes were guaranteed in high level competitive play! I bet this works every single time over and over again. You should write a guide.

 

[~Unknown~]

Something has to be done about the misinformation being given in majority of the mu threads!

 

[Shadow_13]

Its so insanely good he can just run up and shieldgrab it


hitbox*


Thank you once again for your wisdom, I didn't know stage spikes were guaranteed in high level competitive play! I bet this works every single time over and over again. You should write a guide.

You must follow me. I feel pleased. And yes, I'll admit I messed up and said "hurtbox" rather than "hitbox". Whether they tech it or not, your guaranteed free damage, last hit, and probable KO. This is how I took out the top Brawl Sonic player in Smash Wii U who was considered number 1 for quite some time until 6WX made it up therre. Take the help how you will.

 

[link7]

Foxy, the scrublord is back.

 

[Catana]

You must follow me. I feel pleased. And yes, I'll admit I messed up and said "hurtbox" rather than "hitbox". Whether they tech it or not, your guaranteed free damage, last hit, and probable KO. This is how I took out the top Brawl Sonic player in Smash Wii U who was considered number 1 for quite some time until 6WX made it up therre. Take the help how you will.

You can keep on ranting all you want about how you ''beat'' this ''top'' player when you have provided no evidence for it or whatsoever. Oh btw, I beat Zero, but it was when I was visiting him and it wasnt recorded nor were the replays saved. Nobody gives a ****.
None of the ''information'' you're posting in any thread is reliable nor is it accurate. That hurt/hitbox mistake was amateuristic as hell, anyone who knows what they're talking about wouldnt mix this up. This alone is enough for anyone to question your ''skill'' and knowledge about the game, especially when you've shown nothing of these supposed accomplishments of yours.

 

[Shadow_13]

You can keep on ranting all you want about how you ''beat'' this ''top'' player when you have provided no evidence for it or whatsoever. Oh btw, I beat Zero, but it was when I was visiting him and it wasnt recorded nor were the replays saved. Nobody gives a ****.
None of the ''information'' you're posting in any thread is reliable nor is it accurate. That hurt/hitbox mistake was amateuristic as hell, anyone who knows what they're talking about wouldnt mix this up. This alone is enough for anyone to question your ''skill'' and knowledge about the game, especially when you've shown nothing of these supposed accomplishments of yours.

Like I said, take the information as you will. I'm trying to help. Now let the opinions flow. Neither of our boasts nor accusations are founded so it makes no sense to continue pointing fingers. I gave an option on how to fight Sonic.

 

[Dumbfire]

Whether they tech it or not, your guaranteed free damage, last hit, and probable KO.

'probable KO' when dair against wall is teched please tell us how

Sonic has huge air speed, and horizontal and vertical options covering huge distances, this idea that Link will get free gimps on him is nonsense

Here's the legendary win over X described by the master himself:

I don't think X will play randoms anymore. Around a week before the Roy/Ryu/Lucas update we played online. Link vs Sonic. I two stocked him and as he was about to lose... GAME DISCONNECTED. Couldn't save the video, un-added me... the kid is a panzy. But he still goes to tourneys (So my friends say) because he will beat most everyone there if not everyone.

this one online 3ds wifi game is definitive proof of shadow's mastery of the match-up

Like I said, take the information as you will. I'm trying to help. Now let the opinions flow.

they are not opinions they are just factual inaccuracies

hey guys I once beat the best dutch sonic just bait them to come in then charge your fsmash it will beat everything they have

 

[Shadow_13]

'probable KO' when dair against wall is teched please tell us how

Sonic has huge air speed, and horizontal and vertical options covering huge distances, this idea that Link will get free gimps on him is nonsense

Here's the legendary win over X described by the master himself:

this one online 3ds wifi game is definitive proof of shadow's mastery of the match-up

they are not opinions they are just factual inaccuracies

hey guys I once beat the best dutch sonic just bait them to come in then charge your fsmash it will beat everything they have

I was wondering where you were :D ! Must have took you a while to find that. Spend some time here in Utah and you will know what I mean. The kid was banned from the Smash tourneys here hosted by the main BYU Smashers group but you should know that too. He wouldn't fight me again. I'm just waiting til he will since I finally scrambled enough cash for a capture card.

 

[Catana]

Like I said, take the information as you will.

That's exactly what I'm doing, sweetheart.

I gave an option on how to fight Sonic.

hui guiz i think we shud durr approach zss nd stay in her faec all duh teim cuz ukno our hs bloks duh lazor anyway nd dats how i beat sum zss on fg hurhuru.
There, I just gave you an option on how to fight ZSS. Does that mean its reliable or competitively viable? No. It doesnt. The same goes for your ****ty ''information'' and ''tactics'' in every other MU thread you posted in.

I'm trying to help.

Which is appreciated, however it may be a good idea to stop trying to do so when none of the experienced players here agree with what you're saying and nothing you're posting is reliable.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

It might be best if we just leave it there. We are now officially off-topic.
Same deal with the Rosalina MU thread. Only posts that are on-topic from this point. This is the warning. There will be infractions if you don't heed it.

 

[The Prodigy]

Its ALL about projectiles against Sonic. Never ever approach unless you can manage a hard read. Projectile spamming and camping, while considered super cheap, always get the job done.

 

[Bigbomb2]

Alrighty I gotta kickstart this one back up since the local Sonic in my area actually got his crap together and is pretty legit now. I can beat his Sonic with Bowser (go figure) but Link is having some difficulty now. I think it comes down to my own mistakes with laggy moves, but Sonic is so freakin hard to catch and I'm not sure how to corral him into a good place for me. He loves that dumb spin dash move too. What exactly should I be doing with my bombs? I tend to do a lot of retreating soft bomb tosses which occasionally work but speedy sonic just tends to zip past

 

[Nimious]

This place is way out of date.

Did Vura and I did an analysis on a best of five I had vs the local PR Sonic.

http://smashboards.com/threads/vide...ss-45-chars-done.369394/page-25#post-21394034