Mr. Play & Die

[Skweejji]

Anyone else feel like G&W would be pretty good if his Shield was larger than him and he wasn't so damn light?

 

[flmo]

It's not just his shield, it's also the fact that he can't l-cancel all his aerial moves.

But yes, if these things were fixed about G&W, I feel he would be a really good character, and would probably main him. In Project M he's actually ridiculous and one of my favorite characters to play

 

[ChivalRuse]

You basically are forced to play him without shielding much. You have to lightshield when you do.

 

[404House]

He'd be better if..

• His spot-dodge didn't take so long.
• His roll didn't take so long.
• His OoS was safer.
• Faster in general.
• Able to L-cancel all of his aerials.
• Was heavier.

That's probably some of the biggest things. If these changes went through, would say maybe mid or low A tier. Feel free to quote me on that.

 

[Xtra_Crispy]

He'd be better if..

• His spot-dodge didn't take so long.
• His roll didn't take so long.
• His OoS was safer.
• Faster in general.
• Able to L-cancel all of his aerials.
• Was heavier.

That's probably some of the biggest things. If these changes went through, would say maybe mid or low A tier. Feel free to quote me on that.

Honestly, he can live without most of those. If you correct every character's weaknesses then you get a bunch of Fox MacClouds running around and nobody wants that lolll. Honestly, if you gave him a workable shield and L cancels, his insane combo game and brutal edgeguards would be more than enough to supplement his defensive weaknesses (being light, poor rolls/ dodges, OoS options being risky). He already has insane ground mobility with his wavedash.

Realistically, the shield is probably the only thing holding him back from at least being viable. Even no L-cancels are workable honestly.

 

[Little Nemo]

Realistically, the shield is probably the only thing holding him back from at least being viable. Even no L-cancels are workable honestly.

I agree with this to an extent. He'd be around 16th if I had to put him on the current tier list with just a better shield. That's a huge step up.
I think if you gave him a better roll and l-cancelable aerials on all it'd bring him up to about 12th. It's hard to place him just based on theories, though.
All in all I actually believe G&W's biggest crutch to be his weight. You can get around his bad shield and lack of l-cancelable aerials. But G&W is basically dead after 4 hits from any good character. His recovery is also lackluster once your opponent stops underestimating how low you can recover from.

 

[Xtra_Crispy]

Yeah i don't think shield/ lcancels would magically bump him up to top tier but you would at least see a few G&Ws pop up around tourneys lol.

All in all I actually believe G&W's biggest crutch to be his weight. You can get around his bad shield and lack of l-cancelable aerials. But G&W is basically dead after 4 hits from any good character. His recovery is also lackluster once your opponent stops underestimating how low you can recover from.

True but take a look at Jiggs too. She is in pretty much the same situation except she has that monster recovery. He isn't the easiest character to combo and the combination of a super low profile, a good wavedash and his fair/utilt alone allows you to keep characters out and avoid the big stray hits. Again, I'm not saying he would be toptier worthy but I don't think his weight is too big of a deal, especially since with good DI his recovery is pretty long and can be covered with bacon to get them off the ledge.

 

[Little Nemo]

The difference is Jiggs is floatier. That really helps her and not so much that she has an amazing recovery. Though that really helps. I guess her floatiness is kinda a part of the recovery.
Here's the thing. None of G&W's issues are big. Saying his weight isn't that big a deal is true. It's the fact that he has like 8 small things wrong that ends up with him being bad. If he just had the weight issue, if he just had a bad shield, if he just had bad rolls then maybe he'd be around Ganon on the tier list. But the fact he has so many things wrong is what kills him. It's sad because he's such a fun character.