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I have no idea what that is. Could you fill me in on that?That'll probably be patched once it's abused in tourney. It'll be the next Sheik/GW controversy.
The video I posted on the bottom of the previous page.I have no idea what that is. Could you fill me in on that?
I meant the Sheik/G&W thing. I've actually abused the Sun Ball glitch that in FG teams before.The video I posted on the bottom of the previous page.
Ah. My bad.I meant the Sheik/G&W thing. I've actually abused the Sun Ball glitch that in FG teams before.
So, do you know what it is, or am I just being stupid and misunderstanding something?Ah. My bad.
No, sorry. I'm not that much into competitive Smash, I'm just getting into it.So, do you know what it is, or am I just being stupid and misunderstanding something?
I can't confirm them, but as replays from 1.0.9 are still usable I doubt there are any changes.Currently checking for G&W 1.0.9 changes, though the are likely little to none.
Edit: His smash attacks seem to KO faster.
F-Smash: KO's w/Sweetspot (106% -> 101%), w/Sourspot (130% -> 124%)
U-Smash: KO's (101% -> 96%)
D-Smash: KO's w/Sweetspot (103% -> 97%), w/Sourspot (194% -> 188%)
Can anyone else confirm this?
Cool, thanks.The Sheik/GW thing is that when the two are teams in doubles, Sheik's up b fills two bucket units and is easy to use, but hard to punish. And basically, it's an easy way to get KOs in doubles. The reason that this was a problem was because the two characters were being abused in this way to win the doubles tourney at CEO. It makes both characters look bad and now people are asking for nerfs on one or both characters.
Skip around on this video and you'll find the what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ART2vWwyKLo
There's a new update? Dang it, I can't get back to Smash until Sunday!!!Currently checking for G&W 1.0.9 changes, though the are likely little to none.
Edit: His smash attacks seem to KO faster.
F-Smash: KO's w/Sweetspot (106% -> 101%), w/Sourspot (130% -> 124%)
U-Smash: KO's (101% -> 96%)
D-Smash: KO's w/Sweetspot (103% -> 97%), w/Sourspot (194% -> 188%)
Can anyone else confirm this?
Edit 2: NVM, FD blastzone differences between WiiU and 3DS just messed me up. Ignore this post.
The only new thing is that there was a file added. Replays are still available, meaning none of the characters were changed. Though, this likely means Nintendo is preparing for something. Just what is my question.Cool, thanks.
There's a new update? Dang it, I can't get back to Smash until Sunday!!!
The only new thing is that there was a file added. Replays are still available, meaning none of the characters were changed. Though, this likely means Nintendo is preparing for something. Just what is my question.
Tournament mode???The only new thing is that there was a file added. Replays are still available, meaning none of the characters were changed. Though, this likely means Nintendo is preparing for something. Just what is my question.
Yeah, I've seen that before, and it's fairly rad. The thing is, however, that the G&W/Roy team is more about flexing innate strengths of the two, and their coverage of each other's weaknesses - from the G&W perspective, Roy provides very simple kill potential (in doubles at least, it's harder in 1v1s) and great horizontal movement to be able to switch sides real quick to gang up 2v1. The damage output of the two is insane, as is the juggle coverage, and G&W can save Roy's garbage recovery as needed. It's an interesting dynamic, and it's been undefeated in the two tournaments we entered it in.Not doubting your G&W + Roy combo for doubles but...
You can absorb Sun Salutation like that because its charging produces a windbox. That's what you're technically absorbing.Yeah, I've seen that before, and it's fairly rad. The thing is, however, that the G&W/Roy team is more about flexing innate strengths of the two, and their coverage of each other's weaknesses - from the G&W perspective, Roy provides very simple kill potential (in doubles at least, it's harder in 1v1s) and great horizontal movement to be able to switch sides real quick to gang up 2v1. The damage output of the two is insane, as is the juggle coverage, and G&W can save Roy's garbage recovery as needed. It's an interesting dynamic, and it's been undefeated in the two tournaments we entered it in.
As for bucket combos in team, Snaring Aura Sphere on Lucario is BUSTED with Bucket. If only I had a good Lucario to team with
All stall-then-fall moves kind of suck. Sheik's dair is even weaker and NEVER used by any remotely competent player.This thread is always bustling with activity isn't it?
Anyways, i've recently been trying to rank each incarnation of G&W recently. I came to this:
1. Brawl
2. Melee
3. Sm4sh
(Sm4sh and Melee are very close though)
I'm curious as to what you guys think. Though, I can almost guarantee that you'll all rank Brawl G&W #1.
On a side note, what do you think is G&W's worst move and/or most desperately needs a buff is? My vote goes to D-Air. For all of it's terribly high end lag, it's surprising weak. Either it should become MUCH stronger, or cut it's ending lag in half or more.
All stall-then-fall moves kind of suck. Sheik's dair is even weaker and NEVER used by any remotely competent player.
The only character who gets mileage from using this kind of move frequently is Sonic who can use spring to autocancel.
Anyone try using Fire to the same effect?
The thing about Smash 4 G&W is that his moveset is more well-balanced so it's harder to call one of his moves "useless".
Brawl G&W had tons of moves he barely used, but he got away with having a few ridiculously good ones on top of his bucket
letting him live longer than he should have.
4 just needs a few tweaks to be very effective, like having uair connect more reliably or either fair or bair getting less landing lag.[/quote/]
I think 4 G&W needs KO power close or on the same level as his previous incarnations to make up for his low weight and average mobility (surprisingly high air speed though). His only reliable KO option is U-Smash, which also happens to be his only really safe one too. If they gave him more options to finishing a stock (like make F-Smash's sweetspot bigger or sourspot stronger), he could be a significantly better character.
Personally, I feel F-Air should just become stronger. Its quick enough so it's hard to punish, but it doesn't start killing until 160%-170%. Another safe and/or reliable KO option, like I said earlier, is something G&W really needs.
This thread is always bustling with activity isn't it?
Anyways, i've recently been trying to rank each incarnation of G&W recently. I came to this:
1. Brawl
2. Melee
3. Sm4sh
(Sm4sh and Melee are very close though)
I'm curious as to what you guys think. Though, I can almost guarantee that you'll all rank Brawl G&W #1.
UTilt is G&W's worst move after patch 1.06. With it not chaining properly, it is now just a high damaging tilt that puts the opponent in a juggle scenario (good), but leaves it as an inferior choice to follow up many DThrow combos with (bad) and has pretty garbage range (bad). It's hard to find a use for this move when USmash exists, frankly.On a side note, what do you think is G&W's worst move and/or most desperately needs a buff is? My vote goes to D-Air. For all of it's terribly high end lag, it's surprising weak. Either it should become MUCH stronger, or cut it's ending lag in half or more.
I WOULD say Oil Panic if you're facing an opponent without an energy projectile, but even then you can use it to bucket jump, so it's still quite useful for recovering. If I had to choose G&W's worst move, it'd either be F-air or D-air.This thread is always bustling with activity isn't it?
Anyways, i've recently been trying to rank each incarnation of G&W recently. I came to this:
1. Brawl
2. Melee
3. Sm4sh
(Sm4sh and Melee are very close though)
I'm curious as to what you guys think. Though, I can almost guarantee that you'll all rank Brawl G&W #1.
On a side note, what do you think is G&W's worst move and/or most desperately needs a buff is? My vote goes to D-Air. For all of it's terribly high end lag, it's surprising weak. Either it should become MUCH stronger, or cut it's ending lag in half or more.
Even though I greatly, GREATLY prefer his old F-Air over his new one, it does have purpose and it's far from his worst move (D-Air and U-Tilt). His new F-Air is a lot like and average sex kick (Yoshi and Mario's N-Air are examples), just that G&W's deals more damage, is laggier, and weaker. Despite this, several can be stringed together if timed right and it's still a decent move in his edge guarding arsenal. All in all, just treat his F-Air in this game like a generic sex kick and you should be able to use it somewhat well.I WOULD say Oil Panic if you're facing an opponent without an energy projectile, but even then you can use it to bucket jump, so it's still quite useful for recovering. If I had to choose G&W's worst move, it'd either be F-air or D-air.
F-air is just an awkward move in general; it's too weak to kill reliably, but it's also too laggy to combo out of (Thank god they decreased the landing lag on it though). Maybe I'm not using this move right, but I just don't like it that much in this game. At least with B-air you can sometimes mess up the opponent with the landing hitbox if they shield it.
Meanwhile, you will almost always get punished for using D-air, since it has 7 years of landing lag and can't be fast-falled (RIP Mindgames). Plus it lacks range, decent knockback, and priority, with a lot of attacks beating it out and/or out-ranging it altogether.
Neat find!Um i don't know if this information is useful but you can kill wario with the wind box of down tilt while he is using his waft
I'd like to see most of his moves deal more damage. Almost every one of his moves deals less damage including, but not limited to, U-Smash (Which KO'd Mario at the center of FD in Brawl at 77%, in 4, it's 96%), B-Air, F-Air, D-Air, and D-Throw.UTilt is G&W's worst move after patch 1.06. With it not chaining properly, it is now just a high damaging tilt that puts the opponent in a juggle scenario (good), but leaves it as an inferior choice to follow up many DThrow combos with (bad) and has pretty garbage range (bad). It's hard to find a use for this move when USmash exists, frankly.
That said, a DAir/FAir damage buff would put the cannon back into glass cannon for G&W. 2% damage buff would allow Keys to kill quite early offstage due to damage affecting knockback, and I'm convinced it would really be the buff G&W needs! Oh, and lingering hitbox back on FSmash plz.
I didn't realize how much of a hitbox length nerf dash attack got, but with its new movement properties I'd say it's better than before anyway (I do miss the backward hitbox though, lol). The only other one that really gets me is FSmash. It probably wouldn't linger for 17 frames now, but I want the lingering hitbox back in some way if Pac-Man and Pikachu both get lingering FSmashes.I'd like to see most of his moves deal more damage. Almost every one of his moves deals less damage including, but not limited to, U-Smash (Which KO'd Mario at the center of FD in Brawl at 77%, in 4, it's 96%), B-Air, F-Air, D-Air, and D-Throw.
One major issue that several seem to forget is his sourspots. F-Smash and D-Smash's sourspots are significantly weaker and over 2x as big. In Brawl, it was actually impossible to hit Mario with the sourspot of F-Smash under normal circumstaces due to how small it was. Now it takes up over half of the hitbox. Oh, they also added a sourspot to F-Tilt that does 9%. Why did they add this? It's not like G&W needed nerfs.
I'd also like to see lingering hitboxs added and buffed for G&W, which was one of his great abilities. They nerfed all of them except D-Smash, F-Tilt, and (debatably) D-Tilt. I compared G&W's frame data from Brawl and Smash 4 and here are some examples of his lingering hitbox changes.
(Note: Brawl -> Sm4sh)
F-Tilt: 6 frames -> 8 Frames (A lingering hitbox buff?!)
D-Tilt: 10 Frames -> 6 Frames (14 Frames if Windbox is counted)
Dash Attack: 24 Frames -> 14 Frames
F-Smash: 17 Frames -> 2 Frames (Brawl F-Smash strong point stays out for 4 frames over 2 frames)
U-Smash: 5 Frames -> 2 Frames
N-Air: 16 Frames -> 4 Frames (19 Frames -> 16 Frames if whole length is counted)
F-Air: 22 Frames -> 15 Frames
B-Air: 10 Frames -> 5 Frames (14 Frames -> 13 Frames if whole length is counted)
That's quite a nerf for some of those moves, but I think damage buffs would be better for him.
Overall, if G&W gets some buffs in landing lag for his aerials, a general damage output buff, and the return of lingering hitboxes for a lot of his moves, he'll definitely be a viable character again, possibly even better than Brawl G&W.
Yes, but G&W is supposed to be a glass cannon that deals lots of damage and knockback. Right now, he's just glass. Even just a 2% or 3% buff in some of tilts, smashes, and aerials (F-Air, U-Smash, B-Air, and D-Air come to mind) would make him quite better.Most characters got general damage nerfs and I'm not too mad about the lower output on most of his attacks (FTilt sourspot is weird though). A slight damage buff to FAir and DAir and an autocancel aerial back (NAir or FAir would be great) would be most of what I would ask for.
Well, the 1.0.8 patch buffed D-Tilt's knockback to KO around when Melee does, so it's sort of back. I wish G&W's N-Air functioned like how it does in Brawl-, where tapping N-Air uses Tropical Fish and holding it down uses Parachute. That way, it could be a reliable combo move and a safe finisher (Something Smash 4 G&W desperately needs).Just throwing out that Melee G&W is the most enjoyable of the bunch.
His main problem makes him go in a style that is very fun for both you & your opponent, if your opponent isn't too hard on the play to win aspect, you're most likely going to have lots of fun pulling the things G&W can do. Also, Melee Dtilt/Nair are top tiers, kind of missed them to be honest.
Going to skip G&W in Brawl, This Game & I don't work together sry.
4 G&W is pretty nice, even through much more on the defensive side. Considering this game's mechanics, i wish Backthrow sent in a better angle to then gimp opponents, because G&W in this game has a lot of free gimps potential & a sort of offstage dominance vs most of the cast, so that'd be enjoyable. Also, make Fair/Bair autocancel with a SH, that'd be really nice to make g&w overall safer.
Trust me, you do want to use D-Tilt.So I'm a Ness main who secondaries G&W. One of my favorite things to do is bait people into attempting to punish something like Fsmash or ftilt and then dtilting them, but I was watching GIMR's matches in pools today and I don't think I saw him use dtilt once. Is Dtilt not a move I should be using, or is it just GIMR's playstyle? G&W is a lot of fun and my second best char (not exactly tourney ready yet but I think it actually might do alright) at this point, so I'd like to make sure I'm not getting a bad habit here with Dtilt.