• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Social Mr. Game & Watch Social - The Flat Zone

Sixell

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
47
That'll probably be patched once it's abused in tourney. It'll be the next Sheik/GW controversy.
 

ROBnWatch

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,714
NNID
ROBnWatch
Switch FC
SW 2518 9259 3787
So, do you know what it is, or am I just being stupid and misunderstanding something?
No, sorry. I'm not that much into competitive Smash, I'm just getting into it.
 

Sixell

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 4, 2015
Messages
47
The Sheik/GW thing is that when the two are teams in doubles, Sheik's up b fills two bucket units and is easy to use, but hard to punish. And basically, it's an easy way to get KOs in doubles. The reason that this was a problem was because the two characters were being abused in this way to win the doubles tourney at CEO. It makes both characters look bad and now people are asking for nerfs on one or both characters.

Skip around on this video and you'll find the what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ART2vWwyKLo
 

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
Currently checking for G&W 1.0.9 changes, though the are likely little to none.
Edit: NVM, FD blastzone differences between WiiU and 3DS just messed me up. Ignore this post.
 
Last edited:

Kofu

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
4,609
Location
The caffeine-free state
NNID
Atoyont
3DS FC
1521-4492-7542
Currently checking for G&W 1.0.9 changes, though the are likely little to none.
Edit: His smash attacks seem to KO faster.
F-Smash: KO's w/Sweetspot (106% -> 101%), w/Sourspot (130% -> 124%)
U-Smash: KO's (101% -> 96%)
D-Smash: KO's w/Sweetspot (103% -> 97%), w/Sourspot (194% -> 188%)
Can anyone else confirm this?
I can't confirm them, but as replays from 1.0.9 are still usable I doubt there are any changes.
 

ROBnWatch

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,714
NNID
ROBnWatch
Switch FC
SW 2518 9259 3787
The Sheik/GW thing is that when the two are teams in doubles, Sheik's up b fills two bucket units and is easy to use, but hard to punish. And basically, it's an easy way to get KOs in doubles. The reason that this was a problem was because the two characters were being abused in this way to win the doubles tourney at CEO. It makes both characters look bad and now people are asking for nerfs on one or both characters.

Skip around on this video and you'll find the what I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ART2vWwyKLo
Cool, thanks.

Currently checking for G&W 1.0.9 changes, though the are likely little to none.
Edit: His smash attacks seem to KO faster.
F-Smash: KO's w/Sweetspot (106% -> 101%), w/Sourspot (130% -> 124%)
U-Smash: KO's (101% -> 96%)
D-Smash: KO's w/Sweetspot (103% -> 97%), w/Sourspot (194% -> 188%)
Can anyone else confirm this?
Edit 2: NVM, FD blastzone differences between WiiU and 3DS just messed me up. Ignore this post.
There's a new update? Dang it, I can't get back to Smash until Sunday!!!
 

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
Cool, thanks.



There's a new update? Dang it, I can't get back to Smash until Sunday!!!
The only new thing is that there was a file added. Replays are still available, meaning none of the characters were changed. Though, this likely means Nintendo is preparing for something. Just what is my question.
 

WindozeNT

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
559
Location
Texas
NNID
WindozeNT
3DS FC
1865-1050-3752
The only new thing is that there was a file added. Replays are still available, meaning none of the characters were changed. Though, this likely means Nintendo is preparing for something. Just what is my question.
 

ROBnWatch

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,714
NNID
ROBnWatch
Switch FC
SW 2518 9259 3787
The only new thing is that there was a file added. Replays are still available, meaning none of the characters were changed. Though, this likely means Nintendo is preparing for something. Just what is my question.
Tournament mode???
 

Mr. Escalator

G&W Guru
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,103
Location
Hudson, NH
NNID
MrEscalator
Not doubting your G&W + Roy combo for doubles but...

Yeah, I've seen that before, and it's fairly rad. The thing is, however, that the G&W/Roy team is more about flexing innate strengths of the two, and their coverage of each other's weaknesses - from the G&W perspective, Roy provides very simple kill potential (in doubles at least, it's harder in 1v1s) and great horizontal movement to be able to switch sides real quick to gang up 2v1. The damage output of the two is insane, as is the juggle coverage, and G&W can save Roy's garbage recovery as needed. It's an interesting dynamic, and it's been undefeated in the two tournaments we entered it in.

As for bucket combos in team, Snaring Aura Sphere on Lucario is BUSTED with Bucket. If only I had a good Lucario to team with :(
 

Kofu

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
4,609
Location
The caffeine-free state
NNID
Atoyont
3DS FC
1521-4492-7542
Yeah, I've seen that before, and it's fairly rad. The thing is, however, that the G&W/Roy team is more about flexing innate strengths of the two, and their coverage of each other's weaknesses - from the G&W perspective, Roy provides very simple kill potential (in doubles at least, it's harder in 1v1s) and great horizontal movement to be able to switch sides real quick to gang up 2v1. The damage output of the two is insane, as is the juggle coverage, and G&W can save Roy's garbage recovery as needed. It's an interesting dynamic, and it's been undefeated in the two tournaments we entered it in.

As for bucket combos in team, Snaring Aura Sphere on Lucario is BUSTED with Bucket. If only I had a good Lucario to team with :(
You can absorb Sun Salutation like that because its charging produces a windbox. That's what you're technically absorbing.

Is Snaring Aura Sphere as busted with Oil Panic as it is with Pocket?

 

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
This thread is always bustling with activity isn't it?

Anyways, i've recently been trying to rank each incarnation of G&W recently. I came to this:
1. Brawl
2. Melee
3. Sm4sh
(Sm4sh and Melee are very close though)

I'm curious as to what you guys think. Though, I can almost guarantee that you'll all rank Brawl G&W #1.


On a side note, what do you think is G&W's worst move and/or most desperately needs a buff is? My vote goes to D-Air. For all of it's terribly high end lag, it's surprising weak. Either it should become MUCH stronger, or cut it's ending lag in half or more.
 

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,140
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
This thread is always bustling with activity isn't it?

Anyways, i've recently been trying to rank each incarnation of G&W recently. I came to this:
1. Brawl
2. Melee
3. Sm4sh
(Sm4sh and Melee are very close though)

I'm curious as to what you guys think. Though, I can almost guarantee that you'll all rank Brawl G&W #1.


On a side note, what do you think is G&W's worst move and/or most desperately needs a buff is? My vote goes to D-Air. For all of it's terribly high end lag, it's surprising weak. Either it should become MUCH stronger, or cut it's ending lag in half or more.
All stall-then-fall moves kind of suck. Sheik's dair is even weaker and NEVER used by any remotely competent player.
The only character who gets mileage from using this kind of move frequently is Sonic who can use spring to autocancel.
Anyone try using Fire to the same effect?

The thing about Smash 4 G&W is that his moveset is more well-balanced so it's harder to call one of his moves "useless".
Brawl G&W had tons of moves he barely used, but he got away with having a few ridiculously good ones on top of his bucket
letting him live longer than he should have.

4 just needs a few tweaks to be very effective, like having uair connect more reliably or either fair or bair getting less landing lag.
 

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
All stall-then-fall moves kind of suck. Sheik's dair is even weaker and NEVER used by any remotely competent player.
The only character who gets mileage from using this kind of move frequently is Sonic who can use spring to autocancel.
Anyone try using Fire to the same effect?

The thing about Smash 4 G&W is that his moveset is more well-balanced so it's harder to call one of his moves "useless".
Brawl G&W had tons of moves he barely used, but he got away with having a few ridiculously good ones on top of his bucket
letting him live longer than he should have.

4 just needs a few tweaks to be very effective, like having uair connect more reliably or either fair or bair getting less landing lag.[/quote/]
I think 4 G&W needs KO power close or on the same level as his previous incarnations to make up for his low weight and average mobility (surprisingly high air speed though). His only reliable KO option is U-Smash, which also happens to be his only really safe one too. If they gave him more options to finishing a stock (like make F-Smash's sweetspot bigger or sourspot stronger), he could be a significantly better character.

Personally, I feel F-Air should just become stronger. Its quick enough so it's hard to punish, but it doesn't start killing until 160%-170%. Another safe and/or reliable KO option, like I said earlier, is something G&W really needs.
 

Mr. Escalator

G&W Guru
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,103
Location
Hudson, NH
NNID
MrEscalator
This thread is always bustling with activity isn't it?

Anyways, i've recently been trying to rank each incarnation of G&W recently. I came to this:
1. Brawl
2. Melee
3. Sm4sh
(Sm4sh and Melee are very close though)

I'm curious as to what you guys think. Though, I can almost guarantee that you'll all rank Brawl G&W #1.
  1. Brawl G&W - Broken in a LOT of aspects, but not to the degree of characters above him. He invalidated much of the cast (who were already invalidated lol), and could compete against some of the top characters. He just kinda got killed by Diddy/Olimar/Ice Climbers, so it held him back a lot. I'm convinced if the stages were a little less conservative that he could have had more winnable sets vs the top tiers.
  2. Smash 4 G&W - Many of his strengths were hammered down, which turned his AMAZING matchups vs Heavy characters into losing matchups (partially due to Rage as well). Overall on a much weaker scale from Brawl G&W, but he still has a lot of tools in common. His ground game is so much better, however, and his Down Throw is upgraded, so he's definitely solo-viable in tournaments. With a few buffs, G&W will be a force.
  3. Melee G&W - Had some interesting matchups versus some of the top characters due to chaingrab shenanigans, but he was pretty much held back from being bad on paper. Awful shield, bad recovery, and pretty poor frame data on the whole held him back. He had some strong tools though, and I really miss killing Nair (even if Fishbowl is better). We kinda have killing Dtilt back, though!
On a side note, what do you think is G&W's worst move and/or most desperately needs a buff is? My vote goes to D-Air. For all of it's terribly high end lag, it's surprising weak. Either it should become MUCH stronger, or cut it's ending lag in half or more.
UTilt is G&W's worst move after patch 1.06. With it not chaining properly, it is now just a high damaging tilt that puts the opponent in a juggle scenario (good), but leaves it as an inferior choice to follow up many DThrow combos with (bad) and has pretty garbage range (bad). It's hard to find a use for this move when USmash exists, frankly.

That said, a DAir/FAir damage buff would put the cannon back into glass cannon for G&W. 2% damage buff would allow Keys to kill quite early offstage due to damage affecting knockback, and I'm convinced it would really be the buff G&W needs! Oh, and lingering hitbox back on FSmash plz.
 
Last edited:

1337President

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
116
This thread is always bustling with activity isn't it?

Anyways, i've recently been trying to rank each incarnation of G&W recently. I came to this:
1. Brawl
2. Melee
3. Sm4sh
(Sm4sh and Melee are very close though)

I'm curious as to what you guys think. Though, I can almost guarantee that you'll all rank Brawl G&W #1.


On a side note, what do you think is G&W's worst move and/or most desperately needs a buff is? My vote goes to D-Air. For all of it's terribly high end lag, it's surprising weak. Either it should become MUCH stronger, or cut it's ending lag in half or more.
I WOULD say Oil Panic if you're facing an opponent without an energy projectile, but even then you can use it to bucket jump, so it's still quite useful for recovering. If I had to choose G&W's worst move, it'd either be F-air or D-air.

F-air is just an awkward move in general; it's too weak to kill reliably, but it's also too laggy to combo out of (Thank god they decreased the landing lag on it though). Maybe I'm not using this move right, but I just don't like it that much in this game. At least with B-air you can sometimes mess up the opponent with the landing hitbox if they shield it.

Meanwhile, you will almost always get punished for using D-air, since it has 7 years of landing lag and can't be fast-falled (RIP Mindgames). Plus it lacks range, decent knockback, and priority, with a lot of attacks beating it out and/or out-ranging it altogether.
 
Last edited:

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
I WOULD say Oil Panic if you're facing an opponent without an energy projectile, but even then you can use it to bucket jump, so it's still quite useful for recovering. If I had to choose G&W's worst move, it'd either be F-air or D-air.

F-air is just an awkward move in general; it's too weak to kill reliably, but it's also too laggy to combo out of (Thank god they decreased the landing lag on it though). Maybe I'm not using this move right, but I just don't like it that much in this game. At least with B-air you can sometimes mess up the opponent with the landing hitbox if they shield it.

Meanwhile, you will almost always get punished for using D-air, since it has 7 years of landing lag and can't be fast-falled (RIP Mindgames). Plus it lacks range, decent knockback, and priority, with a lot of attacks beating it out and/or out-ranging it altogether.
Even though I greatly, GREATLY prefer his old F-Air over his new one, it does have purpose and it's far from his worst move (D-Air and U-Tilt). His new F-Air is a lot like and average sex kick (Yoshi and Mario's N-Air are examples), just that G&W's deals more damage, is laggier, and weaker. Despite this, several can be stringed together if timed right and it's still a decent move in his edge guarding arsenal. All in all, just treat his F-Air in this game like a generic sex kick and you should be able to use it somewhat well.
 

deleted

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
49
Um i don't know if this information is useful but you can kill wario with the wind box of down tilt while he is using his waft
 

ROBnWatch

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,714
NNID
ROBnWatch
Switch FC
SW 2518 9259 3787
Um i don't know if this information is useful but you can kill wario with the wind box of down tilt while he is using his waft
Neat find!
 
Last edited:

ROBnWatch

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,714
NNID
ROBnWatch
Switch FC
SW 2518 9259 3787
Wow guys. Satoru Iwata passed away. R.I.P.. Condolences to his family. This is a very saddening time. :'(
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
36,578
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
The Kutthroats have set out to draw their character thanking Iwata for all he has done.

We invite you to do the same.
 

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
UTilt is G&W's worst move after patch 1.06. With it not chaining properly, it is now just a high damaging tilt that puts the opponent in a juggle scenario (good), but leaves it as an inferior choice to follow up many DThrow combos with (bad) and has pretty garbage range (bad). It's hard to find a use for this move when USmash exists, frankly.

That said, a DAir/FAir damage buff would put the cannon back into glass cannon for G&W. 2% damage buff would allow Keys to kill quite early offstage due to damage affecting knockback, and I'm convinced it would really be the buff G&W needs! Oh, and lingering hitbox back on FSmash plz.
I'd like to see most of his moves deal more damage. Almost every one of his moves deals less damage including, but not limited to, U-Smash (Which KO'd Mario at the center of FD in Brawl at 77%, in 4, it's 96%), B-Air, F-Air, D-Air, and D-Throw.

One major issue that several seem to forget is his sourspots. F-Smash and D-Smash's sourspots are significantly weaker and over 2x as big. In Brawl, it was actually impossible to hit Mario with the sourspot of F-Smash under normal circumstaces due to how small it was. Now it takes up over half of the hitbox. Oh, they also added a sourspot to F-Tilt that does 9%. Why did they add this? It's not like G&W needed nerfs.

I'd also like to see lingering hitboxs added and buffed for G&W, which was one of his great abilities. They nerfed all of them except D-Smash, F-Tilt, and (debatably) D-Tilt. I compared G&W's frame data from Brawl and Smash 4 and here are some examples of his lingering hitbox changes.

(Note: Brawl -> Sm4sh)
F-Tilt: 6 frames -> 8 Frames (A lingering hitbox buff?!)
D-Tilt: 10 Frames -> 6 Frames (14 Frames if Windbox is counted)
Dash Attack: 24 Frames -> 14 Frames
F-Smash: 17 Frames -> 2 Frames (Brawl F-Smash strong point stays out for 4 frames over 2 frames)
U-Smash: 5 Frames -> 2 Frames
N-Air: 16 Frames -> 4 Frames (19 Frames -> 16 Frames if whole length is counted)
F-Air: 22 Frames -> 15 Frames
B-Air: 10 Frames -> 5 Frames (14 Frames -> 13 Frames if whole length is counted)

That's quite a nerf for some of those moves, but I think damage buffs would be better for him.

Overall, if G&W gets some buffs in landing lag for his aerials, a general damage output buff, and the return of lingering hitboxes for a lot of his moves, he'll definitely be a viable character again, possibly even better than Brawl G&W.
 

Kofu

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
4,609
Location
The caffeine-free state
NNID
Atoyont
3DS FC
1521-4492-7542
I'd like to see most of his moves deal more damage. Almost every one of his moves deals less damage including, but not limited to, U-Smash (Which KO'd Mario at the center of FD in Brawl at 77%, in 4, it's 96%), B-Air, F-Air, D-Air, and D-Throw.

One major issue that several seem to forget is his sourspots. F-Smash and D-Smash's sourspots are significantly weaker and over 2x as big. In Brawl, it was actually impossible to hit Mario with the sourspot of F-Smash under normal circumstaces due to how small it was. Now it takes up over half of the hitbox. Oh, they also added a sourspot to F-Tilt that does 9%. Why did they add this? It's not like G&W needed nerfs.

I'd also like to see lingering hitboxs added and buffed for G&W, which was one of his great abilities. They nerfed all of them except D-Smash, F-Tilt, and (debatably) D-Tilt. I compared G&W's frame data from Brawl and Smash 4 and here are some examples of his lingering hitbox changes.

(Note: Brawl -> Sm4sh)
F-Tilt: 6 frames -> 8 Frames (A lingering hitbox buff?!)
D-Tilt: 10 Frames -> 6 Frames (14 Frames if Windbox is counted)
Dash Attack: 24 Frames -> 14 Frames
F-Smash: 17 Frames -> 2 Frames (Brawl F-Smash strong point stays out for 4 frames over 2 frames)
U-Smash: 5 Frames -> 2 Frames
N-Air: 16 Frames -> 4 Frames (19 Frames -> 16 Frames if whole length is counted)
F-Air: 22 Frames -> 15 Frames
B-Air: 10 Frames -> 5 Frames (14 Frames -> 13 Frames if whole length is counted)

That's quite a nerf for some of those moves, but I think damage buffs would be better for him.

Overall, if G&W gets some buffs in landing lag for his aerials, a general damage output buff, and the return of lingering hitboxes for a lot of his moves, he'll definitely be a viable character again, possibly even better than Brawl G&W.
I didn't realize how much of a hitbox length nerf dash attack got, but with its new movement properties I'd say it's better than before anyway (I do miss the backward hitbox though, lol). The only other one that really gets me is FSmash. It probably wouldn't linger for 17 frames now, but I want the lingering hitbox back in some way if Pac-Man and Pikachu both get lingering FSmashes.

Most characters got general damage nerfs and I'm not too mad about the lower output on most of his attacks (FTilt sourspot is weird though). A slight damage buff to FAir and DAir and an autocancel aerial back (NAir or FAir would be great) would be most of what I would ask for.
 

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
Most characters got general damage nerfs and I'm not too mad about the lower output on most of his attacks (FTilt sourspot is weird though). A slight damage buff to FAir and DAir and an autocancel aerial back (NAir or FAir would be great) would be most of what I would ask for.
Yes, but G&W is supposed to be a glass cannon that deals lots of damage and knockback. Right now, he's just glass. Even just a 2% or 3% buff in some of tilts, smashes, and aerials (F-Air, U-Smash, B-Air, and D-Air come to mind) would make him quite better.
 

MistressRemilia

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2015
Messages
425
Location
France
Just throwing out that Melee G&W is the most enjoyable of the bunch.
His main problem makes him go in a style that is very fun for both you & your opponent, if your opponent isn't too hard on the play to win aspect, you're most likely going to have lots of fun pulling the things G&W can do. Also, Melee Dtilt/Nair are top tiers, kind of missed them to be honest.
Going to skip G&W in Brawl, This Game & I don't work together sry.
4 G&W is pretty nice, even through much more on the defensive side. Considering this game's mechanics, i wish Backthrow sent in a better angle to then gimp opponents, because G&W in this game has a lot of free gimps potential & a sort of offstage dominance vs most of the cast, so that'd be enjoyable. Also, make Fair/Bair autocancel with a SH, that'd be really nice to make g&w overall safer.
 

ZeroSnipist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
154
Hey G&W players! We from the Ryu boards are making a doubles thread. The purpose of the thread is to find the best partner for Ryu. I'm going to invite as many people I can at once and get discussions going on all at once. We invite you to our dojo and hope you could help us discuss Game & Watch and Ryu in doubles. Thank you in advance!
 

ROBnWatch

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,714
NNID
ROBnWatch
Switch FC
SW 2518 9259 3787
I finally got my drawing for Iwata done. I'll color it in tomorrow and post it here.
 

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
Just throwing out that Melee G&W is the most enjoyable of the bunch.
His main problem makes him go in a style that is very fun for both you & your opponent, if your opponent isn't too hard on the play to win aspect, you're most likely going to have lots of fun pulling the things G&W can do. Also, Melee Dtilt/Nair are top tiers, kind of missed them to be honest.
Going to skip G&W in Brawl, This Game & I don't work together sry.
4 G&W is pretty nice, even through much more on the defensive side. Considering this game's mechanics, i wish Backthrow sent in a better angle to then gimp opponents, because G&W in this game has a lot of free gimps potential & a sort of offstage dominance vs most of the cast, so that'd be enjoyable. Also, make Fair/Bair autocancel with a SH, that'd be really nice to make g&w overall safer.
Well, the 1.0.8 patch buffed D-Tilt's knockback to KO around when Melee does, so it's sort of back. I wish G&W's N-Air functioned like how it does in Brawl-, where tapping N-Air uses Tropical Fish and holding it down uses Parachute. That way, it could be a reliable combo move and a safe finisher (Something Smash 4 G&W desperately needs).

It's a shame they nerfed him in Smash 4. They shortened (or removed) his lingering hitboxes, made his sourspots bigger and weaker, made him generally laggier, and drastically worsened his KO power. His smash attacks in paticular went from arguably the best set in Brawl to okay at best in this game. His defensive playstyle in this game if fun to mess around with though, and stage-spiking with B-Air and U-Special or gimping with F-Air and U-Special (again) is such a joy to do.
 

ROBnWatch

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,714
NNID
ROBnWatch
Switch FC
SW 2518 9259 3787
Guys, I sadly won't have the drawing up today for Iwata. An unforeseen scrimmage with my soccer team popped up literally about an hour after I posted that I would have it up. It will DEFINITELY be up tomorrow. No doubt.
 

Autumn Breeze

Cats > Dogs
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,736
Location
Alrest
Switch FC
SW-3211-2013-3654
*Note: At this point, this post is theorycraft.
A couple days ago I was messing around with Game and Watch team combinations to see what people might try to pull at EVO doubles after Sheik and Game and Watch teams got banned, so I decided to post some of the more effective setups here to share my findings and to get feedback on how well they work in practice. I don't know if this is the right place to put it, so if this derails discussion just tell me to post it in the right place. All of the buckets below KOed at 0% or slightly higher while fresh, depending on positioning, and this list doesn't take into account how good the team is outside of the bucket. I'm posting this right before EVO so nobody gets any ideas from me.

  • :4yoshi:: Star Bomb (Down B 2)
    • While standing on either side of the area Yoshi will land, Game and Watch can absorb both 8% stars created.
      • Hitboxes of the stars continue moving after absorption, providing some protection.
    • If Yoshi immediately Down B's after a jump, the setup becomes much faster.
    • Because the giant stars created travel so far and the bucket has deceptive range, a second short hop Star Bomb can give Game and Watch a full bucket from practically anywhere on the stage.
  • :4tlink:: Short-Fuse Bomb (Down B 3)
    • The massive range of the bomb can fill 2 meters of the bucket and provides some protection.
    • The bomb explodes shortly, allowing for quick setup without the need for throwing the bomb and instead shielding it.
      • The move only deals 10% without a smash throw, so it will only fill 1 meter of the bucket when stale.
  • :4lucario:: Snaring Aura Sphere (Neutral B 2)
    • Even at 0%, a fully charged Aura Sphere can fill the bucket instantly at a close range.
      • To get the insta-kill bucket instantly, have Lucario walk into Game and Watch immediately after releasing the charge.
      • The hitbox of the Aura Sphere stays out.
    • Setup isn't the optimal speed.
  • :4villager:: Lloid Rocket + Exploding Balloon Trip (Up B 2)
    • The ending explosion fills 2 meters of the bucket, as it deals 12%.
      • This can be bucketed in the likely event an opponent shields or gets hit by Lloid.
    • The explosion after hitting a wall also deals 12% and fills 2 meters of the bucket.
      • Quick and guaranteed.
      • Telegraphed and forces both team members to be offstage.
    • One explosion of Exploding Balloon Trip fills one meter and deals 9 or 6% depending on the sweet or sourspot.
      • Free fill of the bucket every time Villager recovers.
      • Telegraphed and forces both team members to be offstage.
    • Setups can be safer with the help of Counter Timber (Down B 2).
Thoughts: Personally, I don't think the Toon Link setup is that good since staling the bombs is inevitable. However, the other 3 teams seem to be viable alternatives to Vanish Bucket. On a final note, I don't like customs, I don't like teams solely based off of the bucket, and I don't abuse bucket strategies on the rare occasions I play teams. If anybody notices something wrong with my information, feel free to point it out. I have not tried these in teams myself and have only tested these in training mode, so these probably have more flaws to them in practice.
 
Last edited:

Meccs

@Meccs_
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
708
Location
Boston
So I'm a Ness main who secondaries G&W. One of my favorite things to do is bait people into attempting to punish something like Fsmash or ftilt and then dtilting them, but I was watching GIMR's matches in pools today and I don't think I saw him use dtilt once. Is Dtilt not a move I should be using, or is it just GIMR's playstyle? G&W is a lot of fun and my second best char (not exactly tourney ready yet but I think it actually might do alright) at this point, so I'd like to make sure I'm not getting a bad habit here with Dtilt.

Also, for teams, Lucas w/PK Freeze (+2) and a PK Fire (+1) works really well. Freeze is relatively quick and can go very far and is very felxible. The PK Fire to fill the third level would also be super easy to get. Dthrow > bucket instand KO'd my friend's Lucas from 0% with that. (Completing the comeback :p)
 
Last edited:

Furret24

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
3,576
So I'm a Ness main who secondaries G&W. One of my favorite things to do is bait people into attempting to punish something like Fsmash or ftilt and then dtilting them, but I was watching GIMR's matches in pools today and I don't think I saw him use dtilt once. Is Dtilt not a move I should be using, or is it just GIMR's playstyle? G&W is a lot of fun and my second best char (not exactly tourney ready yet but I think it actually might do alright) at this point, so I'd like to make sure I'm not getting a bad habit here with Dtilt.
Trust me, you do want to use D-Tilt.
- It starts on frame 6, meaning it's one of his fastest moves.
- It's windbox gives him good coverage against projectiles as it can deflect certain ones with good timing.
- It's angle allows G&W to space opponents with it.
- It's one of his safest KO options, KOing Mario on FD around 130%-140%.

It's likely GimR's playstyle as to why he didn't use D-Tilt. Unless those matches you saw were before 1.0.8. D-Tilt was a lot weaker before 1.0.8. Hope this answers your question.
 

ROBnWatch

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
2,714
NNID
ROBnWatch
Switch FC
SW 2518 9259 3787
Guys...

My Iwata drawing's still not done. And I honestly don't know when it will be done. I messed up in the coloring sequence, and I'll have to try to find a way to get around it. It's coming, but now, with what I'm dealing with, it might not be up until Monday the latest. Sorry all.
 

Meccs

@Meccs_
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
708
Location
Boston
Yes- thanks! I've been under the assumption it was of his better moves but after watching GimR I wasnt sure if I was missing something.
 
Top Bottom