Social Mr. Game & Watch Social - The Flat Zone

[SeanS]

People are finding success with Fair? I always get punished when I used that move

Start spacing it and abusing its lingering hitboxes, including in offstage scenarios where you can sometimes sourspot > sweetspot / Up B. You can also fake out by falling late onto the ground with it and jabbing immediately.

Try d-throw to hammer. It actually works and if you know they will air dodge or jump away then be ready for it and catch them off guard!

No it does not, except on Sheik at 50%ish I believe. And why do that when you can instead get insane damage off dthrow with nair and get even more damage / a potential kill with uair in specific and learnable scenarios?

and how viable is the... bucked jump thing? idk what its called but i guess its that lol

Situational use against Robin.

 

[BBC7]

Meh, I might drop G&W. 5 months spent on him and he still hasn't connected with me. I can't beat For Glory Macs, i can't even beat For Glory Links, I have no chance against any top-tier no matter who the player is. Worst of all is the fact that I can beat all of the above with characters I don't play. With ease, actually. It's really frustrating that my main gets me nowhere and no matter how much I try to be good with the character, he's underdeveloped so I end up being confused as to what's good and what's bad. Such a disconnect between other characters and my main likely means that G&W shouldn't be my main in the first place

I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just saying that I can't play him

 

[SeanS]

I can't beat For Glory Macs

Wait for dash attack, dthrow > nair, true combo double bair. Now you have a stock advantage to work with.

Space crossup bair, dash attack unexpectedly (you must have good prediction to do this), learn to read counters for free kills if they're any good, find openings for sourspot dsmash (this knocks him low and back, he has very little chance to recover), and make the best of your vortex as soon as he is above you because he is one of the easiest to get stuck in it as a result of his weak air game and limited horizontal momentum in the air.

When played well on both sides, it's a very extreme MU, with either character dominating the other at any given time. You need to not get flustered because of this fact.

i can't even beat For Glory Links

You must powershield aggressively and space fair very well. Your first challenge is always to get into CQC. The rest is in the details.

 

[Lunix7]

No it does not, except on Sheik at 50%ish I believe. And why do that when you can instead get insane damage off dthrow with nair and get even more damage / a potential kill with uair in specific and learnable scenarios?

I actually got a couple of people from d-throw to hammer just fine at low percentages. Also true that it is a better idea to d-throw into nair or uair but sometimes you might just get lucky.

 

[BBC7]

I'm going to be honest, my lack of skill, my wireless Classic Controller and LG HDTV are probably holding me back more than Game & Watch is, but I'd rather think that my losses are because he's underdeveloped.

 

[SeanS]

I'm going to be honest, my lack of skill, my wireless Classic Controller and LG HDTV are probably holding me back more than Game & Watch is, but I'd rather think that my losses are because he's underdeveloped.

I only play with GCN at tournies and use Wiichuk at home. It's just a matter of getting used to the controller you are using.

If you are serious about improving, and do not know where to start, you need to link videos of your play. I will be happy to analyze it and discuss the finer points of playing this character.

 

[Neb]

Leave a character at 5 months in because he is underdeveloped? Why not contribute to his development, instead, and be part of the character's overall advancement? Seems backwards.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I would definitely argue that GW is more developed than a number of characters. I'm not even used to this, Brawl GW was pretty flowchart.

My only true issue with GW is that he requires you to REALLY outplay your opponent. Like you can't just be better. You have to be MUCH better. You have to hit like 3 times to their one. If you don't you're just going to die much early than most characters.

I kinda like it though, but dying at sub 60% frequently gets kind of discouraging.

We're making a lot of progress. I even have been labbing anti-custom villager tech

 

[WindozeNT]

I found a weird glitch on stages like Nintendogs that when being hit at the very beginning of the usmash armor by a fastfalling stage hazard, you cancel out of it but remain invincible for the whole match or until you get KO'd (which is really only possible by self-destructing because you're invincible).

 

[Shaq]

Yo so Diddy aint **** but how we gonna deal wit Sheik tho?

 

[WindozeNT]

Yo so Diddy aint **** but how we gonna deal wit Sheik tho?

You're still invincible regardless of opponent but --

ALL HAIL OUR MASTER.

 

[Neb]

Isn't a falling stage hazard just a type of hitbox? Could this work in other circumstances?

 

[WindozeNT]

Isn't a falling stage hazard just a type of hitbox? Could this work in other circumstances?

It could. I noticed it after getting hit by the edge of a gold block on Living Room while trying to hit a buried Ganondorf with a usmash. It might have something to do with the speed of the hitbox. I've been able to reproduce it twice.

 

[Neb]

There may be some dair's that could trigger it in theory. Worth testing.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yo so Diddy aint **** but how we gonna deal wit Sheik tho?

I dunno tbh

I think sheik is another tier of bad matchup for us. She's much harder than any other character. I dunno what i am going to do when that day comes. I may just have to do the ditto.

Or I'll have Rosalina picked up again by then so probably her.

 

[SeanS]

Sheik has limited kill power and cannot realistically take advantage of G&W's low weight. She also has less openings for what kills she does have because of G&W's mobility options. If she suckers for usmash once while you stand by getting chip damage every now and then, she's dead.

The key is to not get frustrated by losing the battle in terms of damage. She's actually one of the easiest top tiers to fight in my experience.

Throw out some lingering hitboxes, challenge her rushes with your fair, surprise with jab and Up B, and go in super deep for edgeguards if that is physically possible.

 

[Neb]

Learn the grimiest 0-65%+ dthrow/usmash follow-up on her. And use G&W's mobility/disjoints to evade until a grab opportunity presents itself. This will likely be the match-up once her metagame matures. Half joking/half serious. But honestly - can't be bad forever since her kill options are limited, our light weight throws off her BnB, and dthrow benefits on ff'ers.

 

[BBC7]

Honestly, I'm starting to believe that my main issue is with my hardware. How can I play a character for 5 months yet lose to some kid that picks up Little Mac for 5 minutes? I know that my TV has 3 frames of input lag and that my controller has 1 frame, so that's 4 frames that I'm missing out on. No wonder I can never seem to punish with Dash Attack, pressure with Fair, space with F-Tilt, or land a Smash Attack. My moves are just too damn slow. I'm going to give G&W a few more chances at offline tournaments where monitors are inspected for lags and adapters are present so I can use GCC. In fact, I remember doing great on 3DS so that further supports my idea.

tl;dr I'm scapegoating my TV

 

[GMan1255]

Well, I have yet to post to this thread and it is evidently the most active so why not? I have been trying online battling on the 3DS pretty heavily, and it seems like most of the time the game is running at %90 speed. It makes me wonder something because I still end up getting hit even when I do Up-smash and I clearly see the attack get pulled out but the frame 4 invincibility never shows up unless .25 of a second (which is 15 frames I think) goes by... I have tried recording this, but when in replay mode things run at full speed again and the attack is shown of me getting hit the instant the Up-smash. Ultimately my question is that is there anyway to get rid of this lag on the 3DS? I ultimately end up going through 10 matches with people and I get destroyed the first 5 then suddenly I have played them enough that I know their tendencies and I can dodge all the stuff they throw at me (most of the time, anyway). I have recently got a GCC adapter and went online in Wii U smash, but I am using an old wireless GCC and the input lag is heavily evident but the game runs at full speed and I realize I need to get a wired controller as soon as possible.

 

[WindozeNT]

Online is a joke.

 

[BBC7]

I'm ditching online, it's frustrating to constantly get punished for every action because input lag is being a *****. There's nothing more annoying than getting some decent work done, only to take an F-Smash to the face because your moves are slower and your shield isn't coming out quick enough. Nothing is more demoralizing than trying to Fair and jumping into an F-Smash. I can't even fight Lucario because no matter how bad the player is, it eventually ends in getting once and dying.

I'll practice the real stuff and apply it offline - foxtrot, ways to extend grab range, edgeguarding options, and ways to land U-Smash. Difficult to practice this stuff without people, but online is not worth it because I just get frustrated and forget.

 

[WindozeNT]

I'm ditching online, it's frustrating to constantly get punished for every action because input lag is being a *****. There's nothing more annoying than getting some decent work done, only to take an F-Smash to the face because your moves are slower and your shield isn't coming out quick enough. Screw that, shielded Fair should not be a free Falcon F-Smash. Unless it actually is which I highly doubt.

The only time I played online, I narrowly lost to a WFT because my 3DS either ignored or greatly delayed most of my inputs. The match froze up for 10 seconds after every 5 frames. The guy was a scrub, too. Liked to spam B and side-B. Couldn't punish because they saw what I was about to do during the freeze-ups and avoided it whenever they could help it. I couldn't do anything because of all the constant projectile camping making it hard to do anything.

 

[GMan1255]

Well, seeing as I can't drive, the AI are pathetically easy from the amount of offline practice I have done, and no one in my town gives a damn about smash on a competitive level, the only way I can find some decent play is to go online... I agree that it is a joke because there are so many stupid things people get away with that would never work offline and it is the most frustrating thing when people ditto G&W and I lose when they know nothing about playing him. There is nothing else I can really do though to have some form of challenge...

 

[BBC7]

I changed a few settings on my TV and it was great, I was actually winning bouts against half-decent people. This inspired me to do some research on Heavy Trampoline for some reason. Here's what I found:

- If you have a brain-dead opponent, you can chuck them in the air at 130% with U-Throw, and bait out an action with Up B for the kill. I call it "Belated Hoo-Hah" because it's painfully obvious to tell that you're going for it, but it's a grab into kill set-up that kills off the top. If you do D-Throw -> Up B on the top platform of Battlefield, it's a guaranteed kill.

- With Heavy Trampoline's reduced height, you can Up B onto a platform and auto-cancel instantly with a Bair. It works on Battlefield with the top platform, and all 3 "neutral" layouts of Delfino on the highest platforms. You'll have to do a little short hop before your Up B for the 1st neutral layout, though.

- Sweetspotted Up B is a kill move, and an OoS punisher. An interesting use I found besides OoS punishing is baiting the opponent into thinking you will do a poorly spaced Fair, causing them to grab. Up B them into the shadow realm at this point. If they kept their shield up, at least you didn't do a poorly spaced Fair.

Wrong thread but I was already posting fire by the time I realized this

 

[SeanS]

I'm ditching online, it's frustrating to constantly get punished for every action because input lag is being a *****.

Don't ditch it, just don't take it 100% seriously. 80% seriously is good.

There's nothing more annoying than getting some decent work done, only to take an F-Smash to the face because your moves are slower

Jab and fair are some of the quickest moves in the game in terms of start lag and absolutely essential to competent G&W play. You also have gratuitously low endlag off tons of moves, with usmash being a great example.

I can't even fight Lucario because no matter how bad the player is, it eventually ends in getting once and dying.

Lucario is one of the most overrated characters in this game. His ground normals are weak and his air game is fundamentally telegraphed at every turn. You may not know this, but his main kill move, Side B, only works when he's at really high percents and it has tons of startup lag, so he can't reliably chase you into it. If you are dying to this, you have usually spaced poorly.

I'll practice the real stuff and apply it offline - foxtrot, ways to extend grab range, edgeguarding options, and ways to land U-Smash. Difficult to practice this stuff without people, but online is not worth it because I just get frustrated and forget.

This is my first Smash game, and I got good doing most of this on 3DS FG. You have to fight people and be mentally calm enough to differentiate between what you could have done offline and what you couldn't.

 

[SeanS]

Well, seeing as I can't drive

Carpool with a known friend or ask your parents to drive you. If it's possible, you might be able to take advantage of public transportation to some degree as well.

the AI are pathetically easy from the amount of offline practice I have done

I find the literal inverse to be true. The AI doesn't deal in mindgames and has frame perfect punishes on some things.

the only way I can find some decent play is to go online... I agree that it is a joke because there are so many stupid things people get away with that would never work offline and it is the most frustrating thing when people ditto G&W and I lose when they know nothing about playing him

Well, seeing as how I seem to be taking challenges from other people on these boards, you can add me as well. Try to give me a concrete date for when you want to practice.

 

[GMan1255]

@ S SeanS Sure, I will play against you. One of the biggest issues for me is that I have no friends into smash... I guess my parents could drive me but I know these things can go on for a long period of time and my mom won't go anywhere near the city which is where most of the tournaments happen. For a concrete date, that may be hard because this upcoming Tuesday I leave with my marching band to go march at Universal Studios amusement park, and I don't get back until Sunday night, so it might be a week before we can play. I have just kind of assumed this weekend would be too hard because of Easter happening this weekend and families wanting to be together.

 

[SeanS]

That's fine, I'm not pressuring you or anything - it's just an option.

As for not having friends who play Smash... once you go to locals (there's got to be some, really), you'll have friends who play Smash.

 

[Disgaea D2]

@ S SeanS Sure, I will play against you. One of the biggest issues for me is that I have no friends into smash... I guess my parents could drive me but I know these things can go on for a long period of time and my mom won't go anywhere near the city which is where most of the tournaments happen. For a concrete date, that may be hard because this upcoming Tuesday I leave with my marching band to go march at Universal Studios amusement park, and I don't get back until Sunday night, so it might be a week before we can play. I have just kind of assumed this weekend would be too hard because of Easter happening this weekend and families wanting to be together.

I'll friend you too, I'm not the best G&W (Got rekt by SeanS) but I still play G&W despite me losing. I want to show people I can do well with that character. Don't give up on G&W!!!

 

[GMan1255]

Umm alrighty. If both of you could send your 3DS friend codes through PM or whatever they are called here, I will reply back with mine

 

[Disgaea D2]

Umm alrighty. If both of you could send your 3DS friend codes through PM or whatever they are called here, I will reply back with mine

I thought you have a Wii U, sorry I don't have the game for 3ds.

 

[GMan1255]

I thought you have a Wii U, sorry I don't have the game for 3ds.

I have the WiiU one as well. NNID on that is GMan1255 I think

 

[Disgaea D2]

Got you now. I told you before, I'm not good but I can use these battles to improve ourselves.

 

[GMan1255]

Got you now. I told you before, I'm not good but I can use these battles to improve ourselves.

Indeed. I do apologize though because I am leaving this tuesday as I mentioned earlier, so it may be a week before I can get on.

 

[Shinobi1]

Why do people this GW is the worst character in the game? Is he any better with customs?

 

[SeanS]

Why do people this GW is the worst character in the game? Is he any better with customs?

Because they're garbage and don't try hard enough.

Very slightly, yes.

 

[Kerpy Derp]

Meh, I might drop G&W. 5 months spent on him and he still hasn't connected with me. I can't beat For Glory Macs, i can't even beat For Glory Links, I have no chance against any top-tier no matter who the player is. Worst of all is the fact that I can beat all of the above with characters I don't play. With ease, actually. It's really frustrating that my main gets me nowhere and no matter how much I try to be good with the character, he's underdeveloped so I end up being confused as to what's good and what's bad. Such a disconnect between other characters and my main likely means that G&W shouldn't be my main in the first place

I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just saying that I can't play him

If you don't connect with him don't use him it is just a game find someone you love and use him then you will do good.

 

[lllp3lll]

Who are game & watch players voting for as DLC, my picks:

Paper Mario
Shovel Knight
Dig Dug

 

[ROBnWatch]

Who are game & watch players voting for as DLC, my picks:

Paper Mario
Shovel Knight
Dig Dug

Right now, ICies.
After them comes Wolf.
After that, a newcomer (probably Inkling).

 

[DobbyMatrix]

Paper Mario

I couldn't think of anyone that would be a good fit until I saw this. This needs to happen.