Mr. Game & Watch Frame Data thread

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MrEscalator
#1
Key:
  • Frame - Consider it a unit of "game time". There are 60 frames in a second.
  • Duration - How long an action lasts in frames.
  • Cooldown - The vulnerable frames after a move's hitbox has disappeared.
  • Shield stun - The frames after an attack hits a shield. The defender is stuck in shield and can perform no actions for the allotted frames.
  • Shield advantage - The frame difference between the attacker's and defender's ability to perform an action after an attack has hit a shield. The attacker can do anything, while the defender can do one of three things: Grab, jump, or drop their shield. This is in the attacker's point of view, so a negative advantage means that the defender can perform and action first while a positive advantage means that the attacker can perform an action first.
  • Shield drop advantage - The attacker's advantage after an opponent has dropped their shield. (shield advantage - 7).
  • Hit advantage - Same idea as shield advantage, but applied after an attack connects with your opponent.
  • Optimal shield/hit advantage - used for aerials. Details the advantage had when the aerial connects either shield or foe and you land on the next frame. (aka when the aerial is used optimally)
  • Shield damage - The set amount of damage the move does to a shield. Only a few moves have a specific amount set; all moves inflict shield damage based on the damage they do. The shield damage listed is extra damage added on top. A shield has 70 "health".

Tilts
Neutral A
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-3 Startup
• 4-6 Hitbox out
• 7-15 Cooldown

Jab flurry:
• 15-16 Hitbox out
• 17-22
• 23-24 Hitbox out
• 25-30
• 31-32 Hitbox out
• ... (hits every 7 frames)

Frame Summary
Duration: 15
Hits on frame: 4
Hitbox duration: 3
Cooldown: 9
Shieldstun: 1
Shield advantage: -10
Shield drop advantage: -3

Jab flurry:
Cooldown: 9

Hit Advantages:
+1: Diddy, Shiek, Metaknight, Fox, Falco, Wolf, C. Falcon, Squirtle
+2: Mario, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, Link, Ganon, Samus, ZSS, IC, Kirby, Olimar, Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Sonic
+3: Luigi, DK, Zelda, Toon Link, Pit, Ivysaur, Marth, Ness, G&W, Snake
+4: Dedede, Jigglypuff

Forward Tilt
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-9 Startup
• 10-15 Hitbox out
• 16-35 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 35
Hits on frame: 10
Hitbox duration: 6
Cooldown: 20
Shield stun: 4
Shield advantage: -24
Shield drop advantage: -17

Up Tilt
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-12 Startup
• 13-21 Hitbox out
• 22-29 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 29
Hits on frame: 13
Hitbox duration: 9
Cooldown: 8
Shield stun: 2
Shield advantage: -14
Shield drop advantage: -7

Down Tilt
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-15 Hitbox out
• 16-25 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 25
Hits on frame: 6
Hitbox duration: 10
Cooldown: 10
Shield stun: 2
Shield advantage: -17
Shield drop advantage: -10

Dash Attack:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-29 Hitbox out
• 30-37 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 37
Hits on frame: 6
Hitbox duration: 24
Cooldown: 8
Shield advantage 1*: -28
Shield drop advantage 1: -21
Shield advantage 2**: -20
Shield drop advantage 2: -13
Shield damage: 1

*Advantage when fist part of attack connects with shield
**Advantage when second part of attack connects with shield


Smashes
Forward Smash
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-16 Startup
• 17-20 Strong hitbox out
• 21-34 Weak hitbox out
• 34-42 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 42
Hits on frame: 17
After charge, hits on frame: 10
Hitbox duration: 17 (4 strong 13 weak)
Cooldown: 7
Shield stun: 6
Shield advantage: -19
Shield drop advantage: -12

Up Smash
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-23 Startup
• 24-28 Hitbox out
• 29-38 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 38
Hits on frame: 24
After charge, hits on frame: 7
Hitbox duration: 5
Cooldown: 10
Shield stun: 6
Shield advantage: -9
Shield drop advantage: -2

Down Smash
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-14 Startup
• 15-19 Hitbox out
• 20-33 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 33
Hits on frame: 15
After charge, hits on frame: 8
Hitbox duration: 5
Cooldown: 14
Shield stun: 4
Shield advantage: -14
Shield drop advantage: -7


Grabs
Standing grab
Frame breakdown:
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-7 Hitbox out
• 8-29 Cooldown

Frame summary:
Duration: 29
Hits on frame: 6
Cooldown: 22

Dash grab
Frame breakdown:
• 1-9 Startup
• 10-11 Hitbox out
• 12-39 Cooldown

Frame summary:
Duration: 34
Hits on frame: 10
Cooldown: 28

Pivot grab
Frame breakdown:
• 1-9 Startup
• 10-11 Hitbox out
• 12-34 Cooldown

Frame summary:
Duration: 34
Hits on frame: 10
Cooldown: 23


Aerials
Neutral Aerial
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-6 Startup
• 7-10 Hitbox out
• 12-15 Hitbox out
• 17-20 Hitbox out
• 22-25 Hitbox out
• 26-34 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 34
Hits on: 7, 12, 17, 22
Aerial cooldown: 9
Landing lag: 9
Shield stun: 1
Optimal shield advantage: -8
Optimal shield drop advantage: -1
Optimal 1st hit hit advantage: variable*
Optimal 2nd and 3rd hit hit advantage: +17

*Starts out at +3. Add 3 for every 20%. Advantage maxes out at +21 @ 120%. At ~128% the knockback can be DI'd/Air dodged and attacked out of early, thus ruining the setup. (This was done on Mario; results will vary slightly for characters in different weight classes)

Forward Aerial
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-9 Startup
• 10-12 Strong hitbox out
• 13-32 Weak hitbox out
• 33-44 Aerial cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 44
Hits on: 10
Strong hitbox duration: 3
Weak hitbox duration: 19
Aerial cooldown: 12
Landing lag: 22
Shield stun strong hitbox: 5
Shield stun weak hitbox: 1
Optimal Shield advantage: -17
Optimal Shield drop advantage: -10

Back Aerial
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-9 Startup
• 10-11 Hitbox out
• 13-14 Hitbox out
• 16-17 Hitbox out
• 19-20 Hitbox out
• 22-23 Hitbox out
• 24-39 Aerial cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 39
1st hit on: 10, 13, 16, 19, 22
Aerial cooldown: 16
Landing lag: 12
Shield stun: 1
Shield advantage: -10
Shield drop advantage: -3

Grounded Hitbox:
Appears between frames 10 and 39.
Last for 2 frames.
10 Cooldown.
6 Hitlag.
6 Shield hitlag.

Up Aerial
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-7 Hitbox out
• 8-19
• 20-21 Hitbox out
• 22-39 Aerial cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 39
1st hitbox on: 6, 20
Aerial cooldown: 18
Landing lag: 9
Shield stun (both hits): 1

Down Aerial
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-11 Startup
• 12-38 Hitbox out
• 39-49 Aerial Cooldown
Landing:
• 1-2 Hitbox out
• 3-15 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 49
Hits on: 12
Keyspike frames: 12
Landing lag: 15
Landing cooldown: 13

Shield stun: 3
Shield stun (ground hit): 2
Shield advantage: -12
Shield drop advantage: -5


Specials
Neutral B (Chef)
Frame breakdown:
• 1-17 Startup
• 18-20 Fire hitbox out/food launched
• 21-34
• 35-37 Fire hitbox out/food launched
• 38-52
• 53-55 Fire hitbox out/food launched
• 56-69
• 71-73 Fire hitbox out/food launched
• 74-88
• 89-91 Fire hitbox out/food launched
• 92-120 Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration of single piece launch: 49
Duration of 1 cycle (5 pieces) max speed: 120
Fire hitbox out/food launched on: 18, 35, 53, 71, 89
Fire hitbox duration: 3
Cooldown (at any point in the cycle): 29
Food Hitlag+hitstun: 17
Food Hitlag+hitstun on grounded opponent: 22-26*
Food Shield hitlag + shield stun: 7

Hitbox duration of different food trajectories; ordered in distance traveled, shortest to longest:
1. 76
2. 71
3. 67
4. 62
5. 58

*depends on opponent. Floaty characters will undergo more stun if they don't jump before being forced into a hard landing.

Side B (Judgment)
Frame Breakdown: (all hammers but 5)
• 1-15 Startup
• 16-23 Hitbox out
• 24-49 Cooldown

Five hammer:
• 1-15 Startup
• 16-18 Hitbox out
• 19-21 Hitbox out
• 22-24 Hitbox out
• 25-27 Hitbox out
• 28-49 Cooldown

Frame summary:
Duration: 49
Hits on frame: 16
Hitbox duration: 8 (11 total for Five hammer)
Cooldown: 26 (22 for Five hammer)

Individual hammer shield data:
Code:
ONE
Shield stun: 1
Shield advantage: -32
Shield drop advantage: -25

TWO
Shield stun: 1
Shield advantage: -32
Shield drop advantage: -25
Shield damage: 25

THREE
Shield stun: 2
Shield advantage: -31
Shield drop advantage: -24

FOUR
Shield stun: 2
Shield advantage: -31
Shield drop advantage: -24

FIVE
Shield stun: 1
Shield advantage: -26
Shield drop advantage: -19

SIX
Shield stun: 4
Shield advantage: -29
Shield drop advantage: -22

SEVEN
Shield stun: 5
Shield advantage: -28
Shield drop advantage: -21

EIGHT
Shield stun: 3
Shield advantage: -30
Shield drop advantage: -23

NINE
Shield stun: 11
Shield advantage: -35
Shield drop advantage: -28
Up B (Fire!)
Frame Breakdown:
• 1-8 Startup
• 9-29 Hitbox out
• 30-33 Parachute appears
• 33-48* Cooldown

Frame Summary:
Duration: 48
Hits on: 9
Landing lag: 41
Invincibility: 5-13
Soonest ledge grab: 15
Shield Stun: 2

*The Parachute can be canceled into any aerial starting on frame 41.

Down B (Oil Panic)
Collecting:
Begins on frame: 6
Minimum duration with no collection: 50
Cooldown: 13 (13 frames where the bucket is not out)
Collection invincibility: 1-24
After the first/second charge is collected it takes 72 frames to shield
After the third charge is collected it takes 36 frames to shield

Releasing:
Frame Breakdown:
• 1 Startup
• 2-8 Closest hitbox out
• 8-15 Middle hitbox out
• 15-26 Furthest hitbox out
• 27-49 Cooldown

Frame summary:
Duration: 49
Hits on: 2
Hitbox Duration: 25
Cooldown: 24
Invincibility: 1-6


Defense
Spotdodge:
Duration: 25
Invincibility: 2-20 (19)
Vulnerable frames: 5

Airdodge:
Duration: 49
Invincibility: 3-29 (27)
Vulnerable frames: 20

Front/Back Roll:
Duration: 35
Invincibility: 4-19 (16)
Vulnerable frames: 16

Get-up:
Duration: 29
Invincibility:1-22
Vulnerable frames: 7

Get-up Attack:
Duration: 49
Hits on: 20, 32
Hitbox Duration: 2
Invincibility: 1-34
Vulnerable frames: 15
Shield damage: 1

Get-up Roll:
Duration: 35
Invincibility: 1-20
Vulnerable frames: 15

Tech:
Duration: 26
Invincibility: 1-20
Vulnerable frames: 6

Tech Roll:
Duration: 40
Invincibility: 1-20
Vulnerable frames: 20


Ledge Options
General
Ledge invincibility: 1-46
Minimum Time on Ledge: 25 frames
Maximum "usable" ledge grab invincibility: 21

Notes:
- Ledge let-go cannot be buffered
- Ledge let-go invincibility doesn't stack with action invincibility; whichever lasts longer will override the other.

Under 100%:
Ledge get-up
Duration: 34
Invincibility: 1-30
Vulnerable frames: 4

Ledge attack
Duration: 55
Hits on: 24
Hitbox duraiton: 24-28
Invincibility: 1-21
Vulnerable frames: 34
Shield damage: 1

Ledge roll
Duration: 49
Invincibility: 1-27
Vulnerable frames: 22

Ledge hop
Duration: 1-12
Invincibility: 1-12
Vulnerable frames: 0

Above 100%:
Ledge get-up
Duration: 59
Invincibility: 1-55
Vulnerable frames: 4

Ledge attack
Duration: 69
Hits on: 55-59
Invincibility: 1-59
Vulnerable frames: 10
Shield damage: 1

Ledge roll
Duration: 79
Invincibility: 1-60
Vulnerable frames: 19

Ledge hop
Duration: 17
Invincibility: 1-17
Vulnerable frames: 0


Advanced Techs
Glide toss
Frame window: frame 4 of his roll


Movement
Short hop
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-43 Airborne
• 44-45 Landing lag

Short hop FF
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-33 Airborne
• 34-37 Landing lag

Full hop
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-63 Airborne
• 64-67 Landing lag

Full hop FF
• 1-5 Startup
• 6-50 Airborne
• 51-54 Landing lag


Disclaimer
All data is 100% correct and 100% awesome
Data was collected by the amazing Hotgarbage
 
Joined
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MrEscalator
#2
There you go, you hungry souls.
The upB and the downB should be satisfaction enough :p
Jab is also neat.

Anything you want to see post haste?
We're obviously going to be getting all the moves up at some point, but are there certain things you are curious about? Neb asked about the glide toss, so we're looking into that.

Enjoy...?
 

MPH Deku

Smash Journeyman
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the sea of unconsciousness
#3
Okay, what exactly do we use the frame counts for anyway, besides theory? Do these have any practical use in a real brawl? Would it help me to memorize these or something?

Seriously, I'm relatively new to competitive brawl (and competitive fighting games in general). I'm greatly confused by some of the things that hardcore fans say and do.
 

Neb

Smash Lord
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#5
Stupid nubs...

Good **** Esc, ><. Holy crap at Oil Panics start-up!
Aside from the glide toss, I'm interested in the workings of Judgment 9, particularly how long its hitbox lingers once coming in contact with something. Also, if there is invincibility during the bucket absorbing, could you get the frames on that?

S'all I can think of right now, thanks!
 

Neb

Smash Lord
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#8
*tired*
If you were around for Melee, you'd know how important frame data was/is.
And ugh, no delete button.

If you think hard enough, I'm sure you'll understand the use of knowing a characters frame data...or maybe you won't.
 

cutter

Smash Champion
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#10
I really had a feeling Oil Panic came out frame 1.

Too good Esc; thanks so much for relaying this stuff from HotGarbage.

Bair lasts for 39 frames... then there's the landing hitbox o_0
 
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MrEscalator
#12
M2k can still get stuff :p
Some of this isn't exactly precise (the smashes in particular, but Oil Panic, the Jab, and the upB should be good) and we don't have all of it. If he still has the time and wants to do it his input is welcomed :D

And I'll ask HG to figure out the invincibility frames on capturing. They should be fairly large.
 
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#13
Just wanted to clarify some things :O. All startup times are accurate, it's the cooldown that is tricky to figure out because you can't actually see the hitboxes. So the only way to figure that out (that I've thought of) is to run sonic into the move over and over <_____>. Though G&W is actually pretty easy to do this with because his animations often coincide nicely with the hitboxes. Because of that the fsmash is correct, with the dsmash and usmash being tricky to figure out exactly. Dsmash is ± 1 frame, while the usmash could be off more because I got lazy xP. Though in general G&W's smashes don't have much cooldown.

Also, I'm in the process of writing a guide on how to get frame data, so I'll post the link here when I'm finished. Hopefully people will pitch in :O.
 

wtclanDOTcom

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
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#17
i just have a couple questions..im using bair as an example.

* 9 Startup
* Hitbox comes out on frame 10
* Duration 39 frames
* 12 frames of landing lag

9 startup - does this mean that it takes 9 frames to start the move and then on like the 9th or 10th frame, the move actually starts to hit?

on the other ones wat do u mean by total? like how long it lasts?

wen you say cooldown, does that mean landing lag?

Can you please post nair up
 

Drab Emordnilap

Palindrome Bard
GRimer
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I, man, am regal; a German am I.
#18
9 startup is 9 frames after the input, but with no damage being able to be dealt.

Total is the amount of frames the move takes to start, execute, and finish. Basically, the number of frames where you can't use a move, because you're still using this one.

Cooldown is the opposite of startup; it's the frames after the move stops being able to do damage, but before you can do another move.
 

cutter

Smash Champion
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#22
@ OBM: You get the invincibility once G&W leaps off the trampoline. The split second before he's launched he is NOT invincible.

Requests for more frame data:

Startup, duration, and cooldown for the following attacks:
- Nair
- Fair (duration for how long the initial "power hit" is out and also duration for the "sex kick" part)
- Uair
- Dair

This would be MUCH appreciated. :)
 
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#23
Sorry about this thread being kinda dead x_____x. I've been sick recently and I haven't had time to get any more data/write up that frame capture guide. Hopefully by Monday there will be some new stuff here.

Edit: change that to tueday; I was gone longer than expected
 

cutter

Smash Champion
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#25
Any new frame data hotgarbage? If you could get the data on my request that would be so awesome :)

@ Gishnak: Umm grab comes out frame 7? It would be cool to know how it takes for G&W to do his grab attack. G&W's throws are different for each character because duration is determined by weight. That would take a while :p
 

hotgarbage

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#27
thanks for the data
agreed, thanx
o.O oil panic is a lot faster than i thought
Don't thank me! If Esc hadn't nagged me constantly it never would have happened!
I kid xP

LYAGarbage said:
Edit: change that to tueday; I was gone longer than expected
LYA

Umm grab comes out frame 7?
iirc his grab comes out on frame 6, while his dash and pivot grab come out on frame 10.

How do you collect the frame data? AR?
Unfortunately there is not an AR for the wii. (shame as seeing the hitboxes would make this easier :urg:)

BUT! To answer your question on how to collect frame data check out this BRAND NEW GUIDE!!!: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5317822#post5317822


And by the way, basic data on G&W's aerials and tilts (maybe more, I forget) will be up as soon as LazyEsc (I am totally not being a hypocrite) updates this thread 8]
 

UTDZac

▲▲▲▲▲
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Judgment Count: 856
#28
I guess these help out a lot more when you can actually visualize them. Go to training on 1/4 speed. Having a mindset of how fast/slow your moves are on startup will improve your gameplay a bit. Gogogo!
 
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MrEscalator
#29
UPDATED
with LazyGarbage's frame data.

Also tested invincibility with the glide toss:
Could Glide through Uniras
Couldn't Glide through Motion Senser Bombs
Couldn't Glide through Super Sonic.

So It's safe to assume that there are no invincibility frames on it.
Enjoy? o________o
 

Neb

Smash Lord
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#34
Hey hotgarbage; if you're out there can you get shieldstun on G&W's attacks? This would help greatly :)
I was gonna request for this too, for possible shield pressure traps on block, and the like.
But Cut beat me to it, :}.

Thanks, Esc.

PS- What happen to the Cow?
 
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MrEscalator
#35
Ugh, I didnt even notice!
I guess they got rid of the image, and I didnt copy it D:
Should of photobucketed it...

Well, I'll look for something new then.
And that is all I have for shieldstun at this time.

edit: got the cow back!
 

Neb

Smash Lord
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#36
Ugh, I didnt even notice!
I guess they got rid of the image, and I didnt copy it D:
Should of photobucketed it...

Well, I'll look for something new then.
And that is all I have for shieldstun at this time.

edit: got the cow back!
Sweet!
Could you get Hotgarbage to collect shield hitlag, as in how many frames
G&W is frozen after his attack is blocked? And also landlag on aerials?
 
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