Data Moveset Thread - [COMPLETE]

[Camalange]

So apparently sonic and megaman can cancel their trumping animation with a wall jump the easiest out of the entire cast. When you grab the ledge so long as you hold away from the ledge when or if you do get trumped it will auto wall jump preventing you from getting trumped. This could prove really useful vs characters with large or fast bairs as it means we can punish them or recover before they can hit us

I know after an Up-B if you recover high, Sonic can wall jump at the ledge without snapping to it if you time it right. Didn't think this could apply as you're being trumped. I normally just buffer a roll if I think I'm getting trumped.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

At first I thought you needed to time the wall jump as you were getting trumped (which is how everyone who can wall jump needs to do it) but for some reason sonic and mega man don't need to time it at all which makes it such a viable mix up options when your in a situation where someones has grabbed the ledge right after you.

 

[Camalange]

At first I thought you needed to time the wall jump as you were getting trumped (which is how everyone who can wall jump needs to do it) but for some reason sonic and mega man don't need to time it at all which makes it such a viable mix up options when your in a situation where someones has grabbed the ledge right after you.

Third party hype~

 

[Bwill3002]

Does any one else spindash into footstool fast fall forward smash?

 

[Damandatwin]

that doesn't sound like a real combo... I normally opt for footstool -> dair

 

[Camalange]

HA is a real combo ender. Near positive there isn't enough time to fast fall and Fsmash after the FSJ.

Some FSJ set-ups can lead to a jab lock, which then can be ended by Fsmash, though.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Why do I get the feeling if we all starting using SCJ > Dair > Footstool that they are gonna patch that out -____-. Granted that setup could potentially turn a lot of MUs on there head as far as whether we win or lose to certain characters like sheik.(especially due to the fact sheik instantly dies off the footstool after dair meteor due to here fall speed )

 

[Camalange]

Why do I get the feeling if we all starting using SCJ > Dair > Footstool that they are gonna patch that out -____-

As if other characters can't pull off infinites with footstools...

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

We'll I'm moreso refering to the Kill combo it gives us that basically means characters can die anywhere between 35-70% if we hit confirm in properly. Granted it's not like we don't have other early kill options due to stages (dreamlands top platform, halberd, town and city platforms)

 

[Camalange]

There are infinites that are kill combos.

 

[Bwill3002]

Thanks for the info

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Here, help me with any wrong data or if the info is difficult to understand.

Also, any name ideas for the double BSBS BS "tech" are welcome.

 

[Camalange]

I see stuff like this and I don't understand how anyone can believe Sonic isn't complex.

Even I have a little bit of trouble following this, but it's very nicely made.

 

[yope3041]

Maybe I'm missing something but what do the green check marks mean? What do the 'do not enter' symbols mean? Why are there 4 symbols on some of the images and what is the difference between BSBS and Double BSBS?

 

[Camalange]

It would be beneficial if you edited the graphic to have every symbol labeled for consistency.

Also perhaps making the background less distracting? Those are the only complaints I've seen thus far.

 

[Myst_R]

Every time I feel bad about Sonic's nerfs, I feel that I can't improve, I think of playing an other character then I see things like these and I remember the Sonic's community is the best

 

[Sonic Orochi]

This was actually intended to complement the BSBS vid, so that's why there's fewer info in there than it should have. However, I'll edit the flowchart later today anyway.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Someone should post this to reddit so it gets more exposure.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I think posting the BSBS vid would be better. Should be done in the near future, I hope.

 

[Camalange]

I agree. I think the flowchart alone will confuse most Sonic mains, let alone people that want to see the character burn anyway.

 

[Luig]

And they say Sonic is Spin2Win.
Ha.
Scrubs.
Nice chart.

 

[Camalange]

Spin2Suicide.

 

[Gregory2590]

Double BSBS should be called BSBS & Knuckles.

 

[Camalange]

Double BSBS should be called BSBS & Knuckles.

Greg with all the ideas.

 

[(Buddha)]

So, I recently picked up Sonic because he has been one of my favorite VG characters ever. He is my favorite right under Conker. So, I am considerably stupid so if anyone can explain the moves of Sonic as if they were talking to a 4th grader, I would be really happy. Plus, Sonic is doing fine in the MU's right? He of course is getting bested my obvious fighters such as but as far as I can tell, he does really well in the Meta. So help?

 

[Luig]

So, I recently picked up Sonic because he has been one of my favorite VG characters ever. He is my favorite right under Conker. So, I am considerably stupid so if anyone can explain the moves of Sonic as if they were talking to a 4th grader, I would be really happy. Plus, Sonic is doing fine in the MU's right? He of course is getting bested my obvious fighters such as but as far as I can tell, he does really well in the Meta. So help?

K

Well, jab is a quick get off option. I believe it comes out on frame 3. Can jab lock, but Sonic doesn't really have any footstool setups to set that up.
Ftilt is a quick, powerful tilt with good range. It hits twice. His best tilt, great used out of a pivot and can kill near the edge, especially with rage.
Utilt, Sonic kicks upwards twice. The more can set up and kill with rage, but really bad horizontal range keeps it from being useful.
Dtilt is a quick leg sweep across the ground that moves him forward a bit. Can set up edgeguards, but not that much use.

Fsmash is a punch forward with good range. Can be angled, but no kb changes. has good knockback, but a little slow. Good for edgeguarding.

usmash is a multi hit attack where Sonic jumps and curls into a ball with pretty good knockback, but not that good considering the start up and end lag. Also not safe on shield
(why does Mario get a frame 6 usmash and Sanik doesn't?)

dsmash is a quick spilt that semi spikes. Its best used for edguarding because it has mediocre knockback, especially the front side. Hitbox is taller than it seems, and can hit below the ledge.

Gotta go to school, so I'll get the rest done later.

 

[(Buddha)]

K

Well, jab is a quick get off option. I believe it comes out on frame 3. Can jab lock, but Sonic doesn't really have any footstool setups to set that up.
Ftilt is a quick, powerful tilt with good range. It hits twice. His best tilt, great used out of a pivot and can kill near the edge, especially with rage.
Utilt, Sonic kicks upwards twice. The more can set up and kill with rage, but really bad horizontal range keeps it from being useful.
Dtilt is a quick leg sweep across the ground that moves him forward a bit. Can set up edgeguards, but not that much use.

Fsmash is a punch forward with good range. Can be angled, but no kb changes. has good knockback, but a little slow. Good for edgeguarding.

usmash is a multi hit attack where Sonic jumps and curls into a ball with pretty good knockback, but not that good considering the start up and end lag. Also not safe on shield
(why does Mario get a frame 6 usmash and Sanik doesn't?)

dsmash is a quick spilt that semi spikes. Its best used for edguarding because it has mediocre knockback, especially the front side. Hitbox is taller than it seems, and can hit below the ledge.

Gotta go to school, so I'll get the rest done later.

Thanks for this. I noticed jab is pretty fast. I usually Nair to jab. It catches people off guard. I have been doing much better now!

 

[Damandatwin]

So this is something.

This can be done with any character who has a chargeable special that can be canceled with a shield. That includes all the characters the video creator listed, and when I tested other specials, this also applies to Sonic and his Side B Spin Dash (before it can't be shield canceled), and Diddy Kong with his Peanut Popgun. However, the special move also can't have stopgaps inbetween the charges; Pacman's Bonus Fruit, Sheik's Needles, and Donkey Kong's Giant Punch do not allow for this type of cancel. Robin's apparently an exception due to the animation itself imitating a continuous stream of energy despite having four levels.

This helps Diddy and Mario considerably, to let them control space and throw out aerials (And Monkey Flip) at a whim without needing to return to shield. Sonic gets to SH Bair out of reverse Spin Dash rather than FH them, and this helps Robin, Samus, and Miss Fit for clear reasons.

Easy short hop aerials out of SDSC. Seems useful.

 

[Mr. Johan]

It's also possible to throw out another Side B out of the cancel. Could be nifty against characters who call your Spin Dash and respond with a tether grab or a long range projectile.

 

[Camalange]

Easy short hop aerials out of SDSC. Seems useful.

lol, glad they didn't demonstrate it with Sonic.

Will try this out.

 

[carrotstien]

I could imagine using this to shield cancel the spindash + cancel into an jump canceled upSmash, but if someone is above me, I just go for the vertical spin dash jump maybe into a nair to hit them.

The advantage that this might have over vertical spindash jump is that you can short hop or full hop, and cancel into a upSmash ..so basically what Damandatwin said

 

[jaimex2]

Came across a weird bug playing today. The game loses track of how many springs you have used and you can spring up to three times consecutively.

Happens if you get hit against the ledge and dont tech.

Easiest way to reproduce is to go to Omega battlefield with Mario. Double jump off the edge and spring up so you end up wall jumping. Get Mario to bair you into the wall and mash Up B.

Might be a good thing to keep in mind if you miss a tech.

 

[carrotstien]

Hmm, from that video, looks like Sonic got his upB back once Luigi footstooled sonic during sonic's invinci upB frames. I know you get your upB back if you get hit - if you do so during a footstool as well, then that explains this video. If you can recreate the effect without luigi being near sonic during the second spring, that'd prove the glitch.
Try doing it in special smash, slow motion. Might be easier to recreate.

 

[Camalange]

Came across a weird bug playing today. The game loses track of how many springs you have used and you can spring up to three times consecutively.

Happens if you get hit against the ledge and dont tech.

Easiest way to reproduce is to go to Omega battlefield with Mario. Double jump off the edge and spring up so you end up wall jumping. Get Mario to bair you into the wall and mash Up B.

Might be a good thing to keep in mind if you miss a tech.

Getting hit into the stage gives you your Up-B back.

You got footstool'd during the second (first) Up-B, so you could Up-B again. Happened in Brawl too.

 

[jaimex2]

Getting hit into the stage gives you your Up-B back.

You got footstool'd during the second (first) Up-B, so you could Up-B again. Happened in Brawl too.

Probably not the best video to demo this.

I'll post a triple spring when I get home.

 

[Camalange]

Probably not the best video to demo this.

I'll post a triple spring when I get home.

No, that's exactly what happened in that clip.

I even slowed it down. You can see Luigi get a footstool jump the second Sonic is doing another spring.

We've seen this a lot before. Back in Brawl too. Unless you have a different clip that proves otherwise, that's what happened here.

It's especially not a triple spring. It's a double spring, because you got hit after the first spring... (Almost) Every character gets their Up-B back after that.

 

[jaimex2]

Here you go.

 

[carrotstien]

You got me at 3:13, there is definitely an additional spring (3rd). The second one looks like it's due to the footstool.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the wall jump, or maybe it's a glitch having to do with what occurs to sonic when you footstool him in his invinci frames on his upB. Try to just footstool his upB without him tumbling, and mash the upB move.


btw, Jaimex2, can you remove the first video. It's in Canvas form (vs youtube imbed)..and it's making this page use up a lot of resources.
correction: Jaimex2, it looks like it's not that. I don't know why, but my cpu goes nuts just on this page of the whole forum. I tried removing stuff to no avail.

 

[jaimex2]

You got me at 3:13, there is definitely an additional spring (3rd). The second one looks like it's due to the footstool.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the wall jump, or maybe it's a glitch having to do with what occurs to sonic when you footstool him in his invinci frames on his upB. Try to just footstool his upB without him tumbling, and mash the upB move.
.

Its also footstools it seems, the animations and character proximity were really misleading. We triggered this by accident playing a game over wifi and Skype so it is a plausible scenario.

In a nutshell Sonic is in invulnerability frames but the game still registers them as footstools without playing the animation for either character. While not strictly a glitch it is weird behaviour and good to know that if you miss a tech you may have a chance trying to get footstooled for a second spring.

 

[Camalange]

why do you people still ever doubt me