Move adjustments or buffs

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#1
When I look over at Inkling, she feels like a character that seems almost complete. Note that I say, “almost.” There’s some particular moves in her kit that feel like they need some readjustments and even though I don’t think they are pre-3.1 falcon bad, I still do think they need to buff them a bit.

One particular move I think needs a buff is Inkling’s side-smash. It’s not the frame data that’s a problem, it is its pathetic range. If they buff its range, the move will be more likely to land on your reads and it’ll be less punishable as a reward for your good spacing.
 

xoazi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
19
Location
New Jersey
NNID
kyziii
Switch FC
SW-3315-9796-7008
#2
I don't think Inkling needs any buff to the side smash tbh. I think the character is in a pretty good spot. Only thing I'd think to readjust is some angles on the down-B. I'm pretty sure I'm just bad with the character, but I can't get any flashy down-Bs into *insert move here* kills.
 

Kiligar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
196
#3
Get in line. Or rather don’t. Honestly speaking, there are many more characters who need serious fixes before Inkling, who doesn’t need anything. It almost feels cruel when a top tier main asks for buffs to their character.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#4
Get in line. Or rather don’t. Honestly speaking, there are many more characters who need serious fixes before Inkling, who doesn’t need anything. It almost feels cruel when a top tier main asks for buffs to their character.
She’s only theoretically top-tier, like smash 4 Sheik (who did receive minor buffs to help her function way better). I just think that some moves need readjustments, like her up-throw (for making the high-percent kill confirms way more consistent) and her side-smash’s weird range. I don’t want extreme buffs.

If you feel that the characters you main are dysfunctional, why main them? If you want a highly practical character, main a high-tier or a top-tier. Because it is too unlikely for a low-tier to get attention unless they have the iconic status of Caption Falcon, the purposeful difficult-to-play status of Ken and Ryu, or Little Mac’s ‘absolute trash’ status.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#5
I don't think Inkling needs any buff to the side smash tbh. I think the character is in a pretty good spot. Only thing I'd think to readjust is some angles on the down-B. I'm pretty sure I'm just bad with the character, but I can't get any flashy down-Bs into *insert move here* kills.
The move is not supposed to function that way. The only thing that is dumb is it’s 2-frame explosion, where you hit the opponent in the face but they go towards you.
 
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Kiligar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
196
#6
She’s only theoretically top-tier, like smash 4 Sheik (who did receive minor buffs to help her function way better). I just think that some moves need readjustments, like her up-throw (for making the high-percent kill confirms way more consistent) and her side-smash’s weird range. I don’t want extreme buffs.

If you feel that the characters you main are dysfunctional, why main them? If you want a highly practical character, main a high-tier or a top-tier. Because it is too unlikely for a low-tier to get attention unless they have the iconic status of Caption Falcon, the purposeful difficult-to-play status of Ken and Ryu, or Little Mac’s ‘absolute trash’ status.
I use mid and lower high tiers. I use the characters because I like them, even though I’m at a disadvantage it only feels satisfying winning with them rather than a toxic popular character. Why do I say toxic? My experience with players online I meet many players who main these top tier characters and are ridiculously arrogant. It’s a good thing I’ve reached the level where I can humble many of these players as they taunt and T-Bag their way through Arenas. The balance team exists in order to balance the game, and I’ll assume they’ll do their job sooner or later. Ryu/Ken, Lucario and Diddy are some success stories whom you would have told to “just main a top tier, because your character is dysfunctional”. Characters are what make players unique, I don’t care about the 600th main of a popular character like I notice Raito, Elegant, Komota and the like. There is a large roster of nearly 80 characters for a reason, not to use only 20 of them! There are balance patches for a reason, and if characters are undertuned or overtuned that has to change. There are characters who are struggling but gradually getting better, such as Rosalina. I main characters who I like because otherwise I wouldn’t play the game. However, buffing top tiers is contrary to balancing the game, making the gap between the bottom and the top wider is not a great way to balance.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#7
I use mid and lower high tiers. I use the characters because I like them, even though I’m at a disadvantage it only feels satisfying winning with them rather than a toxic popular character. Why do I say toxic? My experience with players online I meet many players who main these top tier characters and are ridiculously arrogant. It’s a good thing I’ve reached the level where I can humble many of these players as they taunt and T-Bag their way through Arenas. The balance team exists in order to balance the game, and I’ll assume they’ll do their job sooner or later. Ryu/Ken, Lucario and Diddy are some success stories whom you would have told to “just main a top tier, because your character is dysfunctional”. Characters are what make players unique, I don’t care about the 600th main of a popular character like I notice Raito, Elegant, Komota and the like. There is a large roster of nearly 80 characters for a reason, not to use only 20 of them! There are balance patches for a reason, and if characters are undertuned or overtuned that has to change. There are characters who are struggling but gradually getting better, such as Rosalina. I main characters who I like because otherwise I wouldn’t play the game. However, buffing top tiers is contrary to balancing the game, making the gap between the bottom and the top wider is not a great way to balance.
The gap between top and bottom isn’t too far from eachother but it is still significant. The minor Inkling buffs are only supposed to keep people interested in the character from a competitive standpoint. Because I don’t want any character to drop from that spot, especially when it comes to the dlc that will probably powercreep this game as one of them, Joker, already has been near the tip of being truly broken.

Think of these minor buffs to high tiers and top tiers more like a safety procession to prevent another bayonetta incident. I do look forward to have some low tiers or mid tiers rise to top tier or high tier status, just because that makes the competitive scene more unique. However, only few characters like Bayonetta, Sheik, or Diddy Kong have the kind of kit that can progress them to that spot. That’s just the reality of this situation.
 
Joined
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Messages
38
Location
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#8
The gap between top and bottom isn’t too far from eachother but it is still significant. The minor Inkling buffs are only supposed to keep people interested in the character from a competitive standpoint. Because I don’t want any character to drop from that spot, especially when it comes to the dlc that will probably powercreep this game as one of them, Joker, already has been near the tip of being truly broken.

Think of these minor buffs to high tiers and top tiers more like a safety procession to prevent another bayonetta incident. I do look forward to have some low tiers or mid tiers rise to top tier or high tier status, just because that makes the competitive scene more unique. However, only few characters like Bayonetta, Sheik, or Diddy Kong have the kind of kit that can progress them to that spot. That’s just the reality of this situation.
Some top/high tiers will inevitably fall as long as the meta grows, counterplay is developed, matchups are explored, and balance patches and DLC come out. It may feel tough to have your super popular/well-renowned pick falling from relevancy. But imagine what it's like from the perspective of someone who plays a character who never got that same recognition at all because their kit seemed too weak to compete with the higher-ups (Ex: Kirby, Isabelle, Piranha Plant, and many others). The whole point of buffs and nerfs is to keep as many characters as possible from falling to obscurity by fixing their innate problems and toning down characters who are unfairly ruling the meta. It's not to keep relevant characters from becoming less popular by fixing their comparatively small issues. And if this power creep does become a reality, huge buffs to these underpowered characters is actually a better safety precaution because we'll have more options to deal with this overpowered character who we we're not even sure will be overpowered in the first place. At least, that's what I figure.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#9
Some top/high tiers will inevitably fall as long as the meta grows, counterplay is developed, matchups are explored, and balance patches and DLC come out. It may feel tough to have your super popular/well-renowned pick falling from relevancy. But imagine what it's like from the perspective of someone who plays a character who never got that same recognition at all because their kit seemed too weak to compete with the higher-ups (Ex: Kirby, Isabelle, Piranha Plant, and many others). The whole point of buffs and nerfs is to keep as many characters as possible from falling to obscurity by fixing their innate problems and toning down characters who are unfairly ruling the meta. It's not to keep relevant characters from becoming less popular by fixing their comparatively small issues. And if this power creep does become a reality, huge buffs to these underpowered characters is actually a better safety precaution because we'll have more options to deal with this overpowered character who we we're not even sure will be overpowered in the first place. At least, that's what I figure.
You already said the problems with the low tiers. Their kit is weak and unoptimiable, unlike the high tiers or top tiers. They can try to buff little Mac but he isn’t ever gonna be a mid-tier unless they perform surgery on him.

The issue Inkling suffers from is actually huge, their issue of killing an opponent of a high percentage only with insanely hard reads. By giving them a buff on their up-throw kill confirm by making them more consistent (especially at extremely high percentages) can help them majorly without them reducing their skill or becoming too overpowered.

You may think “but they are ‘top tier’” but you need to realize that some characters are just downright bad and are extremely hard to work. Bayonetta, Sheik, and Cloud potentially can raise up on the game from buffs because we know they have great results in past smash games. And even if a character is top tier, they still have a weaknesses or may suffer some weird inconsistency issues that legitimately needs some refining or fixing. Olimar for example needs some big fixes on his pikman.
 

Kiligar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
196
#10
You already said the problems with the low tiers. Their kit is weak and unoptimiable, unlike the high tiers or top tiers. They can try to buff little Mac but he isn’t ever gonna be a mid-tier unless they perform surgery on him.

The issue Inkling suffers from is actually huge, their issue of killing an opponent of a high percentage only with insanely hard reads. By giving them a buff on their up-throw kill confirm by making them more consistent (especially at extremely high percentages) can help them majorly without them reducing their skill or becoming too overpowered.

You may think “but they are ‘top tier’” but you need to realize that some characters are just downright bad and are extremely hard to work. Bayonetta, Sheik, and Cloud potentially can raise up on the game from buffs because we know they have great results in past smash games. And even if a character is top tier, they still have a weaknesses or may suffer some weird inconsistency issues that legitimately needs some refining or fixing. Olimar for example needs some big fixes on his pikman.
Inkling is meant to struggle to kill, its all about avoiding roller which has a silly risk reward ratio:it’s a free kill without a hard punish or sometimes without any punish. It’s like making Ganondorf fast, Richter have good recovery, Chrom have teleport etc. It’s part of character design: apart from multi-hits not connecting consistently, which Inkling doesn’t have much of a problem with, Inkling doesn’t need anything more. The character is top 5, if not top 3. Giving them something more in terms of straight up buffs is like giving candy to a Diabetic patient, they don’t need it. However, there are characters who need buffs. And that’s where the focus should go.
 

USAnyan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
58
#11
Not that they “need” this or anything. But I wouldn’t mind fixing the blind spots to the sides with up tilt.more often than not from what I’ve seen and played- this becomes the least used move out of their kit since up smash so greatly outclasses it.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#12
Inkling is meant to struggle to kill, its all about avoiding roller which has a silly risk reward ratio:it’s a free kill without a hard punish or sometimes without any punish. It’s like making Ganondorf fast, Richter have good recovery, Chrom have teleport etc. It’s part of character design: apart from multi-hits not connecting consistently, which Inkling doesn’t have much of a problem with, Inkling doesn’t need anything more. The character is top 5, if not top 3. Giving them something more in terms of straight up buffs is like giving candy to a Diabetic patient, they don’t need it. However, there are characters who need buffs. And that’s where the focus should go.
It’s just buffing Inkling’s only good kill option to make it work way better. Because they never have exchange her roller nerfs for any other options. And besides, you’re heavily estimating how good she is when I can argue that she needs the grab kill confirm when characters are built with Joker’s, Lucario’s, and Wario’s annoying mechanic (which have insane kill confirms at LOW percents).

It’s not like Snake’s high percent down throw kill-confirms have make him broken or remove his flaws completely. In fact, Inkling will likely still struggle to kill even with the up-throw buffs, because it still keeps her confirms at a close and risky range while they are only available at ridiculous high percentages.
 
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BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#13
Not that they “need” this or anything. But I wouldn’t mind fixing the blind spots to the sides with up tilt.more often than not from what I’ve seen and played- this becomes the least used move out of their kit since up smash so greatly outclasses it.
I notice that a lot. It even happens with their up-air.
 

LightKnight

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
116
#14
I agree with the character being nearly complete.
I think the adjustments would probably be an assortment of not only minor buffs to make all the moves more usable but also some nerfs to make sure the character doesn't get out of control. Kinda like when the range of roller was nerfed. Wanted to share my thoughts on the character so this seemed like the best place to do it currently.

For buffs I would focus on hit-consistency and more KO options offstage, especially when opponent is inked. That way, when on the ground your focused on inking and grabbing the opponent (which Inkling already does exceedingly well at) while you evade their movements and position them just where you want them. Then, when you have done the proper set-ups and have the opponent where you want them, you strike! Confidently getting an edgegaurd or securing the KO up-top at reasonable percents with your Uair.
the Utilt and Uair hit consistency buff seems reasonable. Maybe even F-air and Ftilt could use some love? Making F-air worth using in some situations over Bair? Ftilt being a reasonable grounded KO option at the ledge if opponent is at least somewhat inked? (so that you use it more often instead of Bair for the KO). Dsmash could perhaps even have more of a lower angle horizontal knockback than it currently does or set up for a sweet offstage edgeguard. I might give Inkling's Dair a similar treatment to Diddy-Kong's. The Dspecial grenade could maybe get some tweaks to further increase its offensive versatility, particularly when someone is offstage.

One of the main reasons I bring up so many potential buffs though is because I think some of Inkling's tools/mechanics need toning down so the buffs would mostly be there for softening the blow, as after all the character is already considered to be a Top Tier…
Starting off, Bair like I've brought up before is a highly used move and I think its great that Inkling has such a helpful ranged move, seeing as Inkling fits into that 'brawler' type fighter, but I might give it a couple or few extra frames of lag so you aren't always spamming it while still being able to use it for amazing edgeguards. Cause the balance team has had this theme of trying to make every move of nearly every character usable and it seems this move is just too good that it completely overshadows some of their other moves.
Inkling's recovery is also amazing and few characters seem to be able to contest it. I think thats fine but I don't think it should be this good all the time.. So I'd have it to where its vertical distance is about halved when no ink is in the tank.
The final change I'd probably like to see for the character is increasing the time it takes to fill the tank OR decreasing the maximum ink that can be held. Perhaps even some combination of both.
One of the big reasons Inkling is a Top Tier is their few weaknesses. Or what weakness they do have is not significant enough. My solution is primarily to put greater importance on 'Ink Control' so that your carefully deciding which moves to use and whether it would be more beneficial to refill ink or go for a potential KO.
Keep in mind, my goal is to get the whole cast as close as possible in viability so I wouldn't only specifically be targeting Inkling but the rest of the Top Tiers as well. This topic just so happens to specifically be about Inkling and I wanted to talk about this character.
 

mrguy321

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
34
#15
buff? are you crazy? are u out of your mind? there are so many under performing characters, such as my own, that i would think it to be ludacris to even think about doing anything positive to an overwhelmingly performing character
 

LightKnight

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
116
#16
buff? are you crazy? are u out of your mind? there are so many under performing characters, such as my own, that i would think it to be ludacris to even think about doing anything positive to an overwhelmingly performing character
Nah, I was thinking of them as possibilities (as I said, to offset the major nerfs I was thinking of) but if you think my real intention was to buff the character then let me make it clear that what I really want is nerfs.
To reiterate what I said earlier, Inkling is a character with very little weakness… The fact that Inkling has to recharge ink is not enough of a weakness. I think that aspect primarily needs to be nerfed further to better bring the character in line with the rest of the cast.
Seeing as this thread was mainly talking about "buffs" to the character I wanted to see it from their view first and entertain the idea but that was not what I originally came to this thread for. I also didn't want to call him "crazy" and "out of your mind" as its a bit rude… I suppose this could be a misunderstanding though?
 

mrguy321

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
34
#17
Nah, I was thinking of them as possibilities (as I said, to offset the major nerfs I was thinking of) but if you think my real intention was to buff the character then let me make it clear that what I really want is nerfs.
To reiterate what I said earlier, Inkling is a character with very little weakness… The fact that Inkling has to recharge ink is not enough of a weakness. I think that aspect primarily needs to be nerfed further to better bring the character in line with the rest of the cast.
Seeing as this thread was mainly talking about "buffs" to the character I wanted to see it from their view first and entertain the idea but that was not what I originally came to this thread for. I also didn't want to call him "crazy" and "out of your mind" as its a bit rude… I suppose this could be a misunderstanding though?
my post was to the thread in general
 
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BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#18
I agree with the character being nearly complete.
I think the adjustments would probably be an assortment of not only minor buffs to make all the moves more usable but also some nerfs to make sure the character doesn't get out of control. Kinda like when the range of roller was nerfed. Wanted to share my thoughts on the character so this seemed like the best place to do it currently.

For buffs I would focus on hit-consistency and more KO options offstage, especially when opponent is inked. That way, when on the ground your focused on inking and grabbing the opponent (which Inkling already does exceedingly well at) while you evade their movements and position them just where you want them. Then, when you have done the proper set-ups and have the opponent where you want them, you strike! Confidently getting an edgegaurd or securing the KO up-top at reasonable percents with your Uair.
the Utilt and Uair hit consistency buff seems reasonable. Maybe even F-air and Ftilt could use some love? Making F-air worth using in some situations over Bair? Ftilt being a reasonable grounded KO option at the ledge if opponent is at least somewhat inked? (so that you use it more often instead of Bair for the KO). Dsmash could perhaps even have more of a lower angle horizontal knockback than it currently does or set up for a sweet offstage edgeguard. I might give Inkling's Dair a similar treatment to Diddy-Kong's. The Dspecial grenade could maybe get some tweaks to further increase its offensive versatility, particularly when someone is offstage.

One of the main reasons I bring up so many potential buffs though is because I think some of Inkling's tools/mechanics need toning down so the buffs would mostly be there for softening the blow, as after all the character is already considered to be a Top Tier…
Starting off, Bair like I've brought up before is a highly used move and I think its great that Inkling has such a helpful ranged move, seeing as Inkling fits into that 'brawler' type fighter, but I might give it a couple or few extra frames of lag so you aren't always spamming it while still being able to use it for amazing edgeguards. Cause the balance team has had this theme of trying to make every move of nearly every character usable and it seems this move is just too good that it completely overshadows some of their other moves.
Inkling's recovery is also amazing and few characters seem to be able to contest it. I think thats fine but I don't think it should be this good all the time.. So I'd have it to where its vertical distance is about halved when no ink is in the tank.
The final change I'd probably like to see for the character is increasing the time it takes to fill the tank OR decreasing the maximum ink that can be held. Perhaps even some combination of both.
One of the big reasons Inkling is a Top Tier is their few weaknesses. Or what weakness they do have is not significant enough. My solution is primarily to put greater importance on 'Ink Control' so that your carefully deciding which moves to use and whether it would be more beneficial to refill ink or go for a potential KO.
Keep in mind, my goal is to get the whole cast as close as possible in viability so I wouldn't only specifically be targeting Inkling but the rest of the Top Tiers as well. This topic just so happens to specifically be about Inkling and I wanted to talk about this character.
I think back-air is fine as a move as it has a lot low knock back and it prevents inkling from going for grabs or other face forward moves (like their ink bombs). It’s kinda like nerfing Captain Falcon’s backair when it prevents him from using his other options (like his up-special and grabs). It has more commitment than moves like Wolf’s or Fox’s neutral-air. If that move had a lot knockback like other back-airs, I would ask for fair nerfs (which they probably did when they made the move). What will discourage its uses are potential rewards. But these rewards are often absent. A move like Ike’s neutral-air is actually borderline broken as it actually has combos and kill-confirms, and it has way more coverages than Inkling’s back-air.

Inkling already has a lot of ink usage and ironically, it’s the thing that encourages the back-air usage the most. If that up-b is nerf because of the ink usage. Then Joker is going to receive more popularity and Inkling will probably be abandoned. No one likes a character with that fatel weakness when nearly everyone else has ridiculous up-b’s but with smashes, b-specials, and even jabs that aren’t tied to a ink tank. The real reason why ink management isn’t that noticeable as a weakness is because it’s mainly for limiting Inkling’s offensive options (including edge pressuring). But they make these ink-related moves very unlikely to kill (even the roller as it has too many ridiculous factors connecting to it), so it feels mostly pointless. So, Inkling’s trouble to kill is supposed to be its weakness when it runs out of ink. But, damage alone doesn’t kill an opponent and Roller is ridiculously badly designed. Heck, they can just make splatbomb a kill move as it drains 1/6 of ink, is pretty slow and punishable, and the edge is designed so stupid, that it doesn’t hit an opponent when it explodes right on them.

They can just readjust neutral-b as a move that wastes a lot more ink than before, yet holds an opponent in place for a smash attack if their percent is high enough (like about 120% or more). They can slightly nerf the verrtical distance of the up-b but lower down the lag from the down-air and slow down side-b’s fall, just to perserve their off-stage game.
 
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BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#19
buff? are you crazy? are u out of your mind? there are so many under performing characters, such as my own, that i would think it to be ludacris to even think about doing anything positive to an overwhelmingly performing character
I know but that happens with every game. Some characters are just ridiculously badly designed. Like who thought that Mewtwo’s hitboxes and weight was okay?

This board isn’t meant to make Inkling #1, it’s to make Inkling generally better designed or feel finished. If one buff or one adjustment can do that, it’s good enough.
 
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mrguy321

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
34
#20
make Inkling generally better designed or feel finished
why cant little mac feel better designed? what about the miis normals and specials and how watered down they feel compared to their counterparts? the miis dont feel finished. i hope sakurai has a lot more priority to make other character better designed than top tier characters
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#21
why cant little mac feel better designed? what about the miis normals and specials and how watered down they feel compared to their counterparts? the miis dont feel finished. i hope sakurai has a lot more priority to make other character better designed than top tier characters
Because Little Mac’s ground-only gimmick is that horrendous. Armada says that he is a contender of being one of the worst designed characters in Smash history just because of that awful gimmick.

The miis unfortunately don’t really have that much popularity competitively or even in japan. I find it quite bizarre that they are treated this way. But top-tiers and high-tiers (including characters that used to be in these tiers) will naturally receive attention due to their popularity. They are more concerned with them having wackily early kills with a single smash attack or their camping, instead of their status of being top-tier (which is why they buff Pikachu). They want to aim for the majority of serious players instead of the minority of serious players.
 

mrguy321

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
34
#22
Because Little Mac’s ground-only gimmick is that horrendous. Armada says that he is a contender of being one of the worst designed characters in Smash history just because of that awful gimmick.

The miis unfortunately don’t really have that much popularity competitively or even in japan. I find it quite bizarre that they are treated this way. But top-tiers and high-tiers (including characters that used to be in these tiers) will naturally receive attention due to their popularity. They are more concerned with them having wackily early kills with a single smash attack or their camping, instead of their status of being top-tier (which is why they buff Pikachu). They want to aim for the majority of serious players instead of the minority of serious players.
ok, even if the characters i mentioned are apart of the "minority of serious players", what about characters that people play often that are in a much worse spot than inkling, like, half of the roster?
 

LightKnight

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
116
#23
I think back-air is fine as a move as it has a lot low knock back and it prevents inkling from going for grabs or other face forward moves (like their ink bombs). It’s kinda like nerfing Captain Falcon’s backair when it prevents him from using his other options (like his up-special and grabs). It has more commitment than moves like Wolf’s or Fox’s neutral-air. If that move had a lot knockback like other back-airs, I would ask for fair nerfs (which they probably did when they made the move). What will discourage its uses are potential rewards. But these rewards are often absent. A move like Ike’s neutral-air is actually borderline broken as it actually has combos and kill-confirms, and it has way more coverages than Inkling’s back-air.

Inkling already has a lot of ink usage and ironically, it’s the thing that encourages the back-air usage the most. If that up-b is nerf because of the ink usage. Then Joker is going to receive more popularity and Inkling will probably be abandoned. No one likes a character with that fatel weakness when nearly everyone else has ridiculous up-b’s but with smashes, b-specials, and even jabs that aren’t tied to a ink tank. The real reason why ink management isn’t that noticeable as a weakness is because it’s mainly for limiting Inkling’s offensive options (including edge pressuring). But they make these ink-related moves very unlikely to kill (even the roller as it has too many ridiculous factors connecting to it), so it feels mostly pointless. So, Inkling’s trouble to kill is supposed to be its weakness when it runs out of ink. But, damage alone doesn’t kill an opponent and Roller is ridiculously badly designed. Heck, they can just make splatbomb a kill move as it drains 1/6 of ink, is pretty slow and punishable, and the edge is designed so stupid, that it doesn’t hit an opponent when it explodes right on them.

They can just readjust neutral-b as a move that wastes a lot more ink than before, yet holds an opponent in place for a smash attack if their percent is high enough (like about 120% or more). They can slightly nerf the verrtical distance of the up-b but lower down the lag from the down-air and slow down side-b’s fall, just to perserve their off-stage game.
Well thanks for talking over the possible changes and your additional ideas. Glad to see what your views on them are.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#24
ok, even if the characters i mentioned are apart of the "minority of serious players", what about characters that people play often that are in a much worse spot than inkling, like, half of the roster?
I feel like this game is so over bloated with so much characters that there is more variety to chose from (I think about 25 characters or more fit in with the top-tiers and high-tier section). And unlike smash 4, the characters are so close to each other that some mid-tiers are threats/counters to some top-tiers. Think about the Rosalina and Isabelle match ups against Snake, their tools are good enough to specifically destroy him in particular.

However, that means their best decision is to manage only the most viable or the most difficult characters in this game. Because there is simply too much characters to consider for this game.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#25
Well thanks for talking over the possible changes and your additional ideas. Glad to see what your views on them are.
Would you agree that we need to massively readjust the b-moves and the ink gimmick? I feel that the ink mechanic isn’t really viable as you rarely can follow up on the opponent before they lose it. So nerfing the damage boost of it isn’t a problem. What we can do instead with it is to make the b-moves it’s high-percent kill moves (some changes is to slightly increase ink usage while increasing the knock-back or hitstun of the moves). It’s a change that helps Inkling have a goal and give the opponents a way to counter that plan. This changes the system of Inkling: roller is their high-risk and high-reward, Ink bombs are risky, hard to land, and potentially wasteful, while the ink gun is the lowest in risk but only rewarding at high percents.

This potentially puts Inkling as more likely to become vulnerable because they need to refill their ink tank more, which means opponents are more likely to punish them. And it possibly can give players more freedom to express themselves.
 
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mrguy321

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
34
#26
ink mechanic isnt something u really think about. u dont aim to ink ur opponents, ur moves just have inking properties, so u just deal more damage just from playing the game while not planning to ink them. i think its such a bland and OP mechanic that doesnt really fit the way inkling works
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#27
ink mechanic isnt something u really think about. u dont aim to ink ur opponents, ur moves just have inking properties, so u just deal more damage just from playing the game while not planning to ink them. i think its such a bland and OP mechanic that doesnt really fit the way inkling works
I played Splattoon so I definitely think it’s pretty stupid. But since they make it work that way in this game, ugh, we have to keep it or people get mad. I swear that the only ink moves that actually replicates Inkling is roller and their smashes. I want its damage boosting to be somewhere in 1.3x at best.

If they readjust the splat gun as a kill-confirm (via high-percent hitstun) and splat bombs as a kill move, it’ll be way more accurate to splattoon. Plus, they’ll be more fun and unique to play. Do you agree with me?
 

mrguy321

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2019
Messages
34
#28
ive never played splatoon, so no. i guess they can tone down the damage mulitplier, since no one really pays attention to any starts to max time your opponent is inked. they just play the game and get free damage from it.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#29
ive never played splatoon, so no. i guess they can tone down the damage mulitplier, since no one really pays attention to any starts to max time your opponent is inked. they just play the game and get free damage from it.
In splattoon, bombs and rollers kill usually instantly (because they cover opponents completely in ink) and the ink guns/weapony only kill if it covers the entire opponent in ink. I think these moves can be more correctly representive of the game if they do lead into kills and have less of that annoying boost damage.
 
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LightKnight

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
116
#30
Would you agree that we need to massively readjust the b-moves and the ink gimmick? I feel that the ink mechanic isn’t really viable as you rarely can follow up on the opponent before they lose it. So nerfing the damage boost of it isn’t a problem. What we can do instead with it is to make the b-moves it’s high-percent kill moves (some changes is to slightly increase ink usage while increasing the knock-back or hitstun of the moves). It’s a change that helps Inkling have a goal and give the opponents a way to counter that plan. This changes the system of Inkling: roller is their high-risk and high-reward, Ink bombs are risky, hard to land, and potentially wasteful, while the ink gun is the lowest in risk but only rewarding at high percents.

This potentially puts Inkling as more likely to become vulnerable because they need to refill their ink tank more, which means opponents are more likely to punish them. And it possibly can give players more freedom to express themselves.
This is pretty much exactly what I was going for so I completely agree. Inkling already has the speed to express themselves but it doesn't really turn out fully that way because of how their tools/mechanics work. Making these sorts of changes to allow for less linear gameplay with Inkling, allowing for more mix-ups, while making them more vulnerable/punishable through the ink-refill mechanic I think would be very healthy for the character. Of course, a good Inkling would still be able to mitigate those bad situations through careful and highly adaptable play.
 

BlackInk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
59
#31
This is pretty much exactly what I was going for so I completely agree. Inkling already has the speed to express themselves but it doesn't really turn out fully that way because of how their tools/mechanics work. Making these sorts of changes to allow for less linear gameplay with Inkling, allowing for more mix-ups, while making them more vulnerable/punishable through the ink-refill mechanic I think would be very healthy for the character. Of course, a good Inkling would still be able to mitigate those bad situations through careful and highly adaptable play.
I feel like we might have a chance at achieving this change if we get vocal enough. The smash team does want their characters to work and it’s notable that the new ultimate characters actually receive the most adjustments out of all characters (besides popular ones). The way they change Ken is far more dedicated than any other characters in ultimate (even formal top-tiers) and I don’t doubt they will do the same for Inkling, once they realize how the roller stuff is ridiculously limiting. This character is like solid snake if he has only one kill option (that sucks) or a Joker without Arsene. In fact, I’m confused why the b-moves can’t kill if Joker’s gimmick is pretty much Inkling’s damage boosting but with lots of good kill options that can be spammed for about 30 seconds.
 
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