Most annoying character to run into on quickplay?

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#41
I don't play ness. Never have, never will.
Of course you don't. Anyone who plays Ness knows how frustrating it is to land a PK Fire on a competent player who is good. Even online. Which is why MG_3989 uses it sparingly. It's an easy move punish. Unless you're playing a braindead player. They run into it like moths to light. In that case, spam away. Get the match over with so you can move on to someone decent.

Sounds to me like a whole lot of assumptions about PK Fire and not a whole lot of proving that he's a braindead character.
 
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#42
Of course you don't. Anyone who plays Ness knows how frustrating it is to land a PK Fire on a competent player who is good. Even online. Which is why MG_3989 uses it sparingly. It's an easy move punish. Unless you're playing a braindead player. They run into it like moths to light. In that case, spam away. Get the match over with so you can move on to someone decent.
If you ever wondered why people report "spammers" then there you go. You're pretty much asking for it when you do that. XD
 

MG_3989

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#43
Of course you don't. Anyone who plays Ness knows how frustrating it is to land a PK Fire on a competent player who is good. Even online. Which is why MG_3989 uses it sparingly. It's an easy move punish. Unless you're playing a braindead player. They run into it like moths to light. In that case, spam away. Get the match over with so you can move on to someone decent.

Sounds to me like a whole lot of assumptions about PK Fire and not a whole lot of proving that he's a braindead character.
Thanks for the support but it’s not even worth it. He wants to be ignorant on how Ness actually plays and that he’s actually a character with a ton depth and substance. If I can get away with something stupid I’m not saying I won’t but I still won’t spam. But if somebody is wide open to PK Fire over and over again I’m gonna use it
 
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Sean²

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#44
I mean in Ghidorah14 Ghidorah14 ’s defense, Ness does have one of the lowest skill floors in the game with very rewarding moves so it makes sense why unskilled and spammy players are attracted to him to play with online.
 
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MG_3989

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#45
I mean in Ghidorah14 Ghidorah14 defense, Ness does have one of the lowest skill floors in the game with very rewarding moves so it makes sense why unskilled and spammy players are attracted to him to play with online.
I don’t think he has a high skill floor. PKT2 takes some getting used to and you have to be competent with short hopping aerials and airdodging effectively to play him with any sort of efficacy. You won’t even hit 100k without knowing how to maunuver and recover and Ness does it differently than most characters. Like you said he had a decently low skill floor (which means he’s not the easiest to pick up) and I’m confused by your pharsing

He also has a high skill ceiling. Every single one of his moves is useful. You have to learn what to do in what situations. He’s not a braindead character by any means if watch anybody who’s been playing Ness for a while play. I’ve had some of my most difficult and decision filled games with Ness where the wrong or right call on one or two seemingly minor plays was the difference between winning and losing. I’ve had more of those type of games with Ness than any other character
 
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MG_3989

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#48
Let’s just stop with this here. Some people find Ness annoying and that’s ok. When you call him a brain dead character though of course I’m gonna say something because he’s my main and I do understand why you find him annoying but don’t call him brain dead without ever even playing him. I don’t want this thread to devolve and derail into unnecessary arguments
 
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Sean²

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#49
I don’t think he has a high skill floor. PKT2 takes some getting used to and you have to be competent with short hopping aerials and airdodging effectively to play him with any sort of efficacy. You won’t even hit 100k without knowing how to maunuver and recover and Ness does it differently than most characters. Like you said he had a decently low skill floor (which means he’s not the easiest to pick up) and I’m confused by your pharsing

He also has a high skill ceiling. Every single one of his moves is useful. You have to learn what to do in what situations. He’s not a braindead character by any means if watch anybody who’s been playing Ness for a while play. I’ve had some of my most difficult and decision filled games with Ness where the wrong or right call on one or two seemingly minor plays was the difference between winning and losing. I’ve had more of those type of games with Ness than any other character
Never claimed he had a low skill ceiling. Just a low skill floor. If you've never touched the character before you can play for an hour or so and figure out how to recover in multiple ways with PKT2. That's the hardest thing to pick up when you're just learning the character. Ignore ATs or advanced reads and confirms. For unskilled players, hitting PK Fire means you basically get a free strong attack out of it, or you can keep using PK fire and get tons of damage. For people starting out, you'll get a ton more mileage out of Ness than you will with probably 80% of the cast, especially against other unskilled players. The "PK Fire Spam" stereotype exists for a reason.
 

MG_3989

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#50
Never claimed he had a low skill ceiling. Just a low skill floor. If you've never touched the character before you can play for an hour or so and figure out how to recover in multiple ways with PKT2. That's the hardest thing to pick up when you're just learning the character. Ignore ATs or advanced reads and confirms. For unskilled players, hitting PK Fire means you basically get a free strong attack out of it, or you can keep using PK fire and get tons of damage. For people starting out, you'll get a ton more mileage out of Ness than you will with probably 80% of the cast, especially against other unskilled players. The "PK Fire Spam" stereotype exists for a reason.
I guess so but you won’t get much out of PK Fire once you reach a certain point unless you learn Ness’s strings and combos. You have to read the other player to know how to follow up PK Fire. Even low level players know how to DI out of PK Fire and not get hit with the bat and the grab isn’t that significant unless you land the strings after anyway.

He has a lot of kill moves but you have to know what situation everyone works on unless you’re relying on the bat which is no good. Brand new players generally don’t know the properties of throws and aerials that kill. I don’t see a lot of new players getting bair, uair, nair, PKT2, PKT juggle kills, or even backthrow kills when they’re first starting out
 
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#51
All I'm saying is maybe don't double down on doing the thing you know triggers people and then act like you cant believe why people would wanna block or report you.
So we just straight up can't beat people because they suck at avoiding a move?

Sounds to me like when you have a broken reporting system, losers take advantage of it.
But if PK Fire is such an effective fishing tool, I offer the invitation, again, to prove me wrong.
Show me how effective PK Fire fishing is and I'll take back everything I said.
 

Sean²

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#52
I guess so but you won’t get much out of PK Fire once you reach a certain point unless you learn Ness’s strings and combos. You have to read the other player to know how to follow up PK Fire. Even low level players know how to DI out of PK Fire and not get hit with the bat and the grab isn’t that significant unless you land the strings after anyway.

He has a lot of kill moves but you have to know what situation everyone works on unless you’re relying on the bat which is no good. Brand new players generally don’t know the properties of throws and aerials that kill. I don’t see a lot of new players getting bair, uair, nair, PKT2, PKT juggle kills, or even backthrow kills when they’re first starting out
With this, you're inching closer and closer to the ceiling. All I was saying was, if you really want to play braindead, Ness is a wonderful choice. Bad Ness players love nickel and diming percent on you till they get you to kill percent and running away until they can try to bait you into running into their back throw. Not saying it's going to net you wins, but you can probably frustrate people to the point where they want to come on the internet and post in a thread titled "Most annoying character to run into on quickplay".
 

MG_3989

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#53
With this, you're inching closer and closer to the ceiling. All I was saying was, if you really want to play braindead, Ness is a wonderful choice. Bad Ness players love nickel and diming percent on you till they get you to kill percent and running away until they can try to bait you into running into their back throw. Not saying it's going to net you wins, but you can probably frustrate people to the point where they want to come on the internet and post in a thread titled "Most annoying character to run into on quickplay".
I understand that. I guess they just don’t really annoy me because I’m a Ness main and I know exactly what they’re doing and they’d be lucky to put 30% on me using that tactic. I can definitely see how it could be annoying though. I just think zoners that are actually good are more annoying. Fighting a tough Ylink for example can completely shut down your game plan and make you adjust on the fly if they’re competent with projectiles and you’re probably gonna lose to a couple before you figure them out. Just my personal opinion though
 
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#54
...I know exactly what they’re doing and they’d be lucky to put 30% on me using that tactic.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.
If you know what they're doing, it won't work.
If you don't know what they're doing, learn it.

Reporting, crying, complaining, criticizing, blaming, deflecting, etc. won't help you improve, won't stop the other player from attempting to win by any means necessary, or remove PK Fire.

People have been complaining about Ness since Smash Wii U. They nerfed his PK Fire ZERO times. There have been multiple updates and a whole new game and people are still complaining. Don't hate the player. Dont hate the game. Hate your skills
 
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#55
TBH I could probably get to elite smash in one session with my day 1 ness. Being braindead doesn’t equate to being OP.
 

Sean²

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#56
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.
If you know what they're doing, it won't work.
If you don't know what they're doing, learn it.

Reporting, crying, complaining, criticizing, blaming, deflecting, etc. won't help you improve, won't stop the other player from attempting to win by any means necessary, or remove PK Fire.

People have been complaining about Ness since Smash Wii U. They nerfed his PK Fire ZERO times. There have been multiple updates and a whole new game and people are still complaining. Don't hate the player. Dont hate the game. Hate your skills
idk hearing "PK Fire" and "PK Thunder" 700 times during a match seems worthy of a complaint

At least Samus and Link don't scream their move names at us when they're rolling back and forth to each side of FD
 
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#57
TBH I could probably get to elite smash in one session with my day 1 ness. Being braindead doesn’t equate to being OP.
So what's the problem? If it ain't OP, I don't see anything worth complaining about. Anyone relying on winning by fishing with PK Fire will get punished easily.
 
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Sean²

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#62
Because I've yet to be annoyed by PK Fire...?

Its such an easy move to punish, there's nothing to be annoyed about. Once you get better, you'll understand this.
With this logic, this thread is pointless.

Every character has something annoying about them.
 
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#63
This is why no one likes ness mains, just FYI.

Yeah, its easier to blame others rather than take responsibility for one's own shortcomings.
You could just figure out how to fight Ness instead of calling his playstyle braindead cause that's not what's braindead.
 
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#64
You’re turning this into something more than what it is.

Your character is annoying AF to fight, regardless if I win or lose. Instead of whining like the child you play as, just accept it and move on like bayonetta players did. Or better yet, embrace it like the dedede and k rool players have! At least there’s something to be applauded for people who make no apologies for the character they play, instead of constantly whining all the damn time.
 
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#65
it’s not like you wanna be close to him anyway with all that super armor.
All that super armor? Last I checked all Ganondorf has is the one move in warlock punch, and that move's entire purpose is off getting one good read on an aggressive one-track-mind foe. If ANY of his other moves had super armor than man have I been missing out.

Back to the topic at hand, honestly it's mostly the FE swordies/Marth-alikes just because I'm dumb and I'm bad at dealing with their range and speed, although whenever I play big heavies I find some of the more combo-oriented characters pretty annoying not due to losing, but to just how long I get juggled by them. Granted, being able to counter-attack with just a few moves and be immediately back up to even is satisfying, but all that juggling can certainly be a bit obnoxious.
 
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#66
You’re turning this into something more than what it is.

Your character is annoying AF to fight, regardless if I win or lose. Instead of whining like the child you play as, just accept it and move on like bayonetta players did. Or better yet, embrace it like the dedede and k rool players have! At least there’s something to be applauded for people who make no apologies for the character they play, instead of constantly whining all the damn time.
I main Game and Watch and second Shulk.
I just learned the Ness matchup and now he's not annoying.
Cause if we're busting out accusations of braindead, its occurring. Just not with Ness
 
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#69
So why not say “I was a ness main in smash 4” instead of “I am a ness main?” Really odd to get those words confused.

This was only 10 days ago as well.
 
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#70
So why not say “I was a ness main in smash 4” instead of “I am a ness main?” Really odd to get those words confused.

This was only 10 days ago as well.
It is what it is, dude. For Ultimate, I've been playing Game and Watch primarily and clocked in 24 hours on him vs the 5 I've played with Ness
 

MG_3989

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#71
This is why no one likes ness mains, just FYI.
Chill on that. You don’t have to go into personal ****. Ness isn’t even one of the characters I see get hate often nor do most people see him as a “braindead” character and if you think somebody’s personality type is based on their main you’re sorely mistaken. When you go in and attack a character this hard it makes it seem like you don’t know how to deal with them.

I’ll play you in a set and not use PK Fire once just to prove to you that Ness isn’t braindead which you decided without playing the character nor watching pros nor taking into account his higher level play.

For whataever reason you’re disproportionately angry about Ness and this thread is about having fun and poking little jabs. All I have to say is Ness mirror me if he’s so brain dead and we’ll see how that ends up because I guess I’ve developed no skill nor mastery of the character after playing him since Melee if he’s that brain dead so we’re on even footing
 
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MG_3989

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#73
I don’t know if I said this yet but another character I find super annoying is Mii Gunner. The running from end to end of the stage and shooting missles and charging shots and never approaching. Plus that ridiculously long fsmash is really deceiving. I guess I just never expected a Mii to give me trouble
 
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#74
Chill on that. You don’t have to go into personal ****. Ness isn’t even one of the characters I see get hate often nor do most people see him as a “braindead” character and if you think somebody’s personality type is based on their main you’re sorely mistaken. When you go in and attack a character this hard it makes it seem like you don’t know how to deal with them.

I’ll play you in a set and not use PK Fire once just to prove to you that Ness isn’t braindead which you decided without playing the character nor watching pros nor taking into account his higher level play.

For whataever reason you’re disproportionately angry about Ness and this thread is about having fun and poking little jabs. All I have to say is Ness mirror me if he’s so brain dead and we’ll see how that ends up because I guess I’ve developed no skill nor mastery of the character after playing him since Melee if he’s that brain dead so we’re on even footing
Oh yeah, I’ll mirror match you with a character I don’t play that you have played since melee. That’s sure to prove something, I guess?!

It only got personal because you ness players took it personally. In fact, in my original post, I said pikachu/pichu may actually be even worse.
 
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#75
Oh yeah, I’ll mirror match you with a character I don’t play that you have played since melee. That’s sure to prove something, I guess?!

It only got personal because you ness players took it personally. In fact, in my original post, I said pikachu/pichu may actually be even worse.
I didnt take it personal. I just offered my counterpoints on viewing Ness as braindead.
But maybe you should play Ness. You'll learn quickly that he's not all that hard to get around. At least, if you're playing decent players.
Chill on that. You don’t have to go into personal ****. Ness isn’t even one of the characters I see get hate often nor do most people see him as a “braindead” character and if you think somebody’s personality type is based on their main you’re sorely mistaken. When you go in and attack a character this hard it makes it seem like you don’t know how to deal with them.

I’ll play you in a set and not use PK Fire once just to prove to you that Ness isn’t braindead which you decided without playing the character nor watching pros nor taking into account his higher level play.

For whataever reason you’re disproportionately angry about Ness and this thread is about having fun and poking little jabs. All I have to say is Ness mirror me if he’s so brain dead and we’ll see how that ends up because I guess I’ve developed no skill nor mastery of the character after playing him since Melee if he’s that brain dead so we’re on even footing
I'd be down for some matches.
My code is SW-3180-4310-5067
Dont hold back on the pk fire, btw. I encourage it.
 

MG_3989

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#76
I didnt take it personal. I just offered my counterpoints on viewing Ness as braindead.
But maybe you should play Ness. You'll learn quickly that he's not all that hard to get around. At least, if you're playing decent players.

I'd be down for some matches.
My code is SW-3180-4310-5067
Dont hold back on the pk fire, btw. I encourage it.
Added, definitely down to play sometime. I’m the dog playing guitar icon and my name is Matt

Also I didn’t take it personally but when you called my main braindead, a character I’ve put 1000s of hours in work into and am still improving with and learning new things everyday with, yeah it got me a little pissed. I mean if Ness is so brain dead it shouldn’t really make a difference should it?

I’m done with this after this post
 
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#77
Added, definitely down to play sometime. I’m the dog playing guitar icon and my name is Matt

Also I didn’t take it personally but when you called my main braindead, a character I’ve put 1000s of hours in work into and am still improving with and learning new things everyday with, yeah it got me a little pissed. I mean if Ness is so brain dead it shouldn’t really make a difference should it?

I’m done with this after this post
Cool!

But its not even worth getting pissed about. I dealt with this a lot during smash 4, so all I'd say is "show me".
"PK Fire spam is cheap!"
Show me.
"Ness is an easy character to win with"
Show me.
"PK Fire is a braindead move"
Show me.

And they never do.
 
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Sudz

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#78
:ultsamus::ultdarksamus: are mindless drudgery to fight, when the players are standard hohoho i made it into elite smash by spamming projectiles and using dash attack when I get close. I generally win, but it's a snoozefest. No hate against the characters, but the mediocre players tend to have a homogenous boring playstyle.

Same applies to the anime swordsman. fairs for days
 
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leafgreen386

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#79
Imo, pk fire is only an annoying move because of how long it keeps you unable to do anything. If it had all the same followups, but didn't take as long to happen, people would probably find it less annoying to play against. It's mostly just the feeling of helplessness after getting hit by it, knowing that you're stuck there until the pk fire ends - unless you somehow manage to SDI out, which seems to have *greatly* reduced effectiveness in this game. So you spam SDI, and it still doesn't help, further contributing to the frustration of getting hit by the move. I don't mind the guaranteed followups at all; it just puts you in a state of "not playing the game" for too long.

The solution, of course, is "don't get hit by pk fire." But it doesn't make it any less frustrating when it *does* happen.
 
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MG_3989

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#80
Cool!

But its not even worth getting pissed about. I dealt with this a lot during smash 4, so all I'd say is "show me".
"PK Fire spam is cheap!"
Show me.
"Ness is an easy character to win with"
Show me.
"PK Fire is braindead"
Show me.

And they never do.
Exactly, it’s not like there’s people lining up to get their “brain dead” wins with Ness, I don’t know many Ness mains at all. Wolf’s laser is 10x more brain dead than PK Fire (nothing against Wolf I love Wolf) along with everything K Rool has and lots of other characters. It’s like people think of PK Fire as a Kirby brick or Pikachu thunderbolt or Inklings roller type of move
 
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