Morph Ball Bomb Discussion

[Xyro77]

People saying things doesn't confirm it. Can we get a vid please? Just leave the camera on for like an hour and edit it to the part where you pull it off. lol

Doesn't have to be full grab length. Half is fine. It seems people have been pulling that off alright.

you can be in doubt all you want. when 3 reliable samus players pull it off and report the same findings....its confirmed.


yea a vid will be nice but wont help much. YOU MUST KNOW how to buffer correctly for this to work. no video can show u how to do it

 

[Throwback]

Any tips on how to time the motion? Do you need to start the motion as you land, or finish it as you land?

 

[NO-IDea]

If you do a dash then you're doing it wrong. Buffering a dash seems to have its uses, though.

@NOID - I'm trying to get a replay since I don't have a recorder. Kinda hard getting it within 3 minutes.

Thank you XD.

you can be in doubt all you want. when 3 reliable samus players pull it off and report the same findings....its confirmed.


yea a vid will be nice but wont help much. YOU MUST KNOW how to buffer correctly for this to work. no video can show u how to do it

It's not confirmed until there's material evidence, not words. Not saying I don't trust you guys, but a video would be nice. Not to bring him up again, but even saviorslegacy backed his **** up with vids.

I'm not asking for a vid to show how. I'm asking you to show what it looks like. That's like a 9 sec video at most. Even half grab length would be fine. Least to show what it is.

I believe you guys. I just want to see it is all. This could be big.

 

[LanceStern]

I would think you buffer the Hadoken (like finish the motion) as she hits the floor in the MBB.

Is that correct?

 

[Xyro77]

Any tips on how to time the motion? Do you need to start the motion as you land, or finish it as you land?

AS i am about to land, i buffer the dash.

if you see your self DASHING, your close to doing it.

 

[Undrdog]

Make a YouTube video entitled, "Super WaveDash in Brawl!?". Then in the description, heck, even in the opening of the video, clarify what this really is. Then show an example. In doing this people from not only SWF but YouTube as well will be trying to do it and researching into it. It won't be long before people not only believe you but can post their own videos and give instructions in ways you may've not thought of.

 

[NO-IDea]

Make a YouTube video entitled, "Super WaveDash in Brawl!?". Then in the description, heck, even in the opening of the video, clarify what this really is. Then show an example. In doing this people from not only SWF but YouTube as well will be trying to do it and researching into it. It won't be long before people not only believe you but can post their own videos and give instructions in ways you may've not thought of.

However much common sense you just made, it doesn't apply here. Or at least it won't for while... (until Ismar posts up a vid maybe.)

PROVE ME WRONG, XYRO! ^^

But he won't... 'cause he'll be like "I'm not going to listen to you" and just go off trying to do it by himself. Or he may prove me wrong, and post a vid, only for me to just say "Hey, isn't that what I asked like three days ago? Or three months ago?"

Dun dun dun... the drama continues...

 

[Hive]

However much common sense you just made, it doesn't apply here. Or at least it won't for while... (until Ismar posts up a vid maybe.)

PROVE ME WRONG, XYRO! ^^

But he won't... 'cause he'll be like "I'm not going to listen to you" and just go off trying to do it by himself. Or he may prove me wrong, and post a vid, only for me to just say "Hey, isn't that what I asked like three days ago? Or three months ago?"

Dun dun dun... the drama continues...

A video would be better for demonstration rather than comfirmation imo since both Xyro and Rohins have similar successes with it.

As it is though, it looks like it will be too difficult to produce consistently enough to use in a match... unless something else comes up that helps it. I've been having a lot of trouble producing it reliably...

 

[IsmaR]

A video would only blow our secrets anyway. /positive attitude

 

[Undrdog]

Rohins credibility is extraordinarily high I admit. But Xyro...? He doesn't help anyone's cause.
/holds chin and nods informatively

 

[Throwback]

I haven't been able to do it at all so far. If this does turn out to be real (and I kind of agree with Noid on this one, need proof pls) and useful, people will learn to do it consistently even if there is only a 1-frame window.

 

[Xyro77]

However much common sense you just made, it doesn't apply here. Or at least it won't for while... (until Ismar posts up a vid maybe.)

PROVE ME WRONG, XYRO! ^^

But he won't... 'cause he'll be like "I'm not going to listen to you" and just go off trying to do it by himself. Or he may prove me wrong, and post a vid, only for me to just say "Hey, isn't that what I asked like three days ago? Or three months ago?"

Dun dun dun... the drama continues...

Rohins credibility is extraordinarily high I admit. But Xyro...? He doesn't help anyone's cause.
/holds chin and nods informatively

you people just have an issue with ME. You think im making this up. A video WILL NOT HELP you do it nor make you better even if you already know how to do it. So there is no point of making one.

Rohins
Ismar
Xyro

We all can do it. You can accept it or you cant.

 

[NO-IDea]

Too much hype for something that can't even be shown yet.

It's like having confirmation of the Dragonball movie coming out! So much hype!

And then the preview comes out... and it looks pointless and horrible.

EDIT: Don't make this a personal issue Xyro. I'm asking for a video to see what it looks like and you're throwing up walls as to why there's not one out yet.

Who cares who can do it? The point of making the video is to show not only is it possible, but whether or not it can be useful, a guestimate of the frame data, etc.

"So there is no point of making one." Just wow. No point of making a video of a tech. Okay. lol

 

[Throwback]

Xyro can you give me some more info on the exact input?

1) what stage(s) have you done this on, could it be stage-specific?

2) Are you doing dB on the ground or in the air? Does it matter?

3) are you moving the morph-ball to either side while it is in the air? Does it matter?

4) Do you hold the final directional input (to the side) after you have input it, or do you return the stick to neutral.

edit: I'm asking cos I still can't do it

edit2: I still want to see a vid, so that I know for sure it can be done.

 

[n00b]

you people just have an issue with ME. You think im making this up. A video WILL NOT HELP you do it nor make you better even if you already know how to do it. So there is no point of making one.

Rohins
Ismar
Xyro

We all can do it. You can accept it or you cant.

lol empirical logic fail

what if rohins, ismar and you have different ideas of what you're doing? video is the best evidence to make sure your accounts/experiences are in accordance with each other. what if you all happened to discover 3 separate ATs, but we dismissed them as being the same one, perhaps the lesser of the three, because we had no visual example?

don't discredit NO-IDeas input, and don't think he's making it personal, either..
while rohins, ismar and you are all credible authorities, it doesn't mean your word is absolute

take this coming from a friend, videos would indeed help.

gl to everyone w/ trash bombs

 

[Xyro77]

lol empirical logic fail

what if rohins, ismar and you have different ideas of what you're doing? video is the best evidence to make sure your accounts/experiences are in accordance with each other. what if you all happened to discover 3 separate ATs, but we dismissed them as being the same one, perhaps the lesser of the three, because we had no visual example?

don't discredit NO-IDeas input, and don't think he's making it personal, either..
while rohins, ismar and you are all credible authorities, it doesn't mean your word is absolute

take this coming from a friend, videos would indeed help.

gl to everyone w/ trash bombs

im sorry but it is IMPOSSIBLE that we are doing 3 separate techs. we all report the same findings(except i think mine went longer than thiers) and the same methods. case closed.

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm thinking videos would actually be really useful. I just spent an hour with frame advance trying to replicate this. All I know is what doesn't cause it.

Do not input:

-2 on frame 43, 4 on frame 44 (Samus goes from morph ball to suit form between these frames; this buffers a dash)
-2 on frame 43, 4 on frame 43 (Samus edges forward a bit, but far from a grab length)
-2 on frame 41, 1 on frame 42, 4 on frame 43

Note that tilted variations on this also do not work. I'm beginning to think more info is needed. I believe you, but there's really not much to go on here.

 

[momochuu]

About a year ago, NikoK made a thread about Peach being able to 0-Death MK with one Toad attack. About ~15 people claimed to have replicated it or done something close to it. Even one of my friends said he did it, lol. It turned out to be fake, and someone was trolling on NikoK's account. Sometimes people want an AT so badly, they think they're doing something special when they're not. This also happened during early Brawl when a "NEW BARWL WAVEDASH" topic was common and it turned out to be something simple like someone buffering a dash out of a jump.

Long story short: A video would be great, just to be safe.

 

[Metatitan]

^
True it could very well be a joke. Buuuut I have talked to xyro on aim and he's confirmed it's real. So we'll see.

 

[NO-IDea]

^
True it could very well be a joke.

DOUBLE TRUE!

Jk...

But srsly...

You've got a vid for every tech in your database. I don't know why a video hasn't been posted yet after it's been confirmed by three reputable Samus mains.

But w/e, I give it a week before a video is posted... or the tech is confirmed to be false. Hopefully it won't be the latter =/

Nothing personal and nothing wrong with questioning and skepticism. <3

 

[n00b]

im sorry but it is IMPOSSIBLE that we are doing 3 separate techs. we all report the same findings(except i think mine went longer than thiers) and the same methods. case closed.

besides the fact that my "same tech" example was hypothetical, you still have such a flawed absolutist argument.. you cant say it's impossible, and that all your findings are the same, "EXCEPT ... i think" etc and conclude with a case closed..

lol, maybe im being too philosophical with this. i almost want to compare this tech with God -- people are skeptic even though authorities believe in its existence and claim to have experienced it, but without visual proof we deny to acknowledge it. and even if we had visuals, we still would not understand how it works, but we would take comfort in the fact we know it exists

im not a skeptic, and i have already tried to reproduce it to no avail, and im probably arguing for nobody's sake, but that's my two cents anyway

 

[Xyro77]

besides the fact that my "same tech" example was hypothetical, you still have such a flawed absolutist argument.. you cant say it's impossible, and that all your findings are the same, "EXCEPT ... i think" etc and conclude with a case closed..

lol, maybe im being too philosophical with this. i almost want to compare this tech with God -- people are skeptic even though authorities believe in its existence and claim to have experienced it, but without visual proof we deny to acknowledge it. and even if we had visuals, we still would not understand how it works, but we would take comfort in the fact we know it exists

im not a skeptic, and i have already tried to reproduce it to no avail, and im probably arguing for nobody's sake, but that's my two cents anyway

the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

 

[Throwback]

The evidence of absence is the proof of something else, correct? I can prove that the 214 motion causes me to buffer a dash.

 

[tha_carter]

someone should test the frame advantage that a bomb would give you if it exploded on your opponent while youre grabbed. Alot of people grab me out of the bomb animation and get hit by it. Itd be nice to know if baiting, and punishing is a viable tactic.


As far as XYRO's bomb tech....
Its buffering a walk, and can be done out of a jab with the same motion. Crouch to cancel animation, then quickly walk. Easiest way to do all that is 2-1-4/2-3-6.

Check around 0:36 when i actually start doing it right, with a good distance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQb7_1E4H8g

Didnt think of the fact you can cancel the bombs animation as well, thanks.

 

[Rohins]

Haven't gotten the slide consistent, but...have a lot more info on the buffer system, here's some weird stuff:

Down B -> 632 (landing) will cause you to dash forward w/ no lag. You are buffering a dash then canceling the landing lag from morph ball w/ crouch. My guess is since dash cancels crouch and it was buffered, it automatically cancels the crouch and causes you to dash.

Down B -> 82 (landing) will cause you to instantly double jump. Why it is a double jump and not a jump I do not know.

Down B -> 63214 (landing) will cause you to dash dance on landing, holding 4 will allow you to run in the opposite direction. This is the easiest way to buffer a reverse run from morph ball.

...

Now if I could only consistently slide xD

 

[Xyro77]

someone should test the frame advantage that a bomb would give you if it exploded on your opponent while youre grabbed. Alot of people grab me out of the bomb animation and get hit by it. Itd be nice to know if baiting, and punishing is a viable tactic.


As far as XYRO's bomb tech....
Its buffering a walk, and can be done out of a jab with the same motion. Crouch to cancel animation, then quickly walk. Easiest way to do all that is 2-1-4/2-3-6.

Check around 0:36 when i actually start doing it right, with a good distance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQb7_1E4H8g

Didnt think of the fact you can cancel the bombs animation as well, thanks.

ok so nothing in that vid is even slightly close to what i discovered. But it was a good video.

 

[NO-IDea]

It sounds like a Raigoth bomb cancel to me... but he'll say it isn't, and then Xyro/Rohins/Ismar will go on to say how hard it is and that it's not ready yet... while continuing to post some kind of result from doing it...

I sure wish I could pull it off like they can ;_;

But, in short, won't be ready for a very very long time.

Just wait it out folks. Just wait it out.

 

[LanceStern]

Not every tech needs a video, if people could give concrete details on how to replicate the tech and more than just 4 people could do it. But this technique sounds hard and it is not working for a lot of people.

I don't care how many people they gotten the tech to work, it means nothing if we can't see it to know it works. 4 people say it works but won't give us a video to prove it exists, even though they have combo vids and vids of "random stuff" and techs. I want to see a video to make sure it works and you guys aren't just making stuff up, no matter how credible they say it is.

Xyro you're making it sound more like a cruel joke/false technique more than anything with your ridiculous argument on why you WON'T show a video on a ridiculously hard technique only you and a few other posters can do.

Show it or it's just a phony and a waste of time. I don't usually get this impatient but reading your arguments on why you won't show it is ridiculous.

 

[Kofu]

While I can't provide proof that this is real, I have a theory as to why it makes you slide (and why the distance is what Xyro says it should be):
If you lay a bomb and then press forward as far as you can before you land, you go about the same distance as the standing grab.

It seems to me as though you're somehow taking the distance you would have traveled in Morph Ball form and turning it into a standing slide.

Just a theory.

 

[Xyro77]

Not every tech needs a video, if people could give concrete details on how to replicate the tech and more than just 4 people could do it. But this technique sounds hard and it is not working for a lot of people.

I don't care how many people they gotten the tech to work, it means nothing if we can't see it to know it works. 4 people say it works but won't give us a video to prove it exists, even though they have combo vids and vids of "random stuff" and techs. I want to see a video to make sure it works and you guys aren't just making stuff up, no matter how credible they say it is.

Xyro you're making it sound more like a cruel joke/false technique more than anything with your ridiculous argument on why you WON'T show a video on a ridiculously hard technique only you and a few other posters can do.

Show it or it's just a phony and a waste of time. I don't usually get this impatient but reading your arguments on why you won't show it is ridiculous.

how about i do what i want and you can accept it or u cant.

i will not record myself for an hourr or 2 just so i can sit thru it again just edit it. its a tech that cannot be done by watching how its done.

your issue is that you cant accept i have discovered some with samus and i choose not to make a vid.

2 others have done the tech and hive is very close to doing it.

you can accept all of this or not. i pretty much dont give a...........poop

 

[Metatitan]

how about i do what i want and you can accept it or u cant.

i will not record myself for an hourr or 2 just so i can sit thru it again just edit it. its a tech that cannot be done by watching how its done.

your issue is that you cant accept i have discovered some with samus and i choose not to make a vid.

2 others have done the tech and hive is very close to doing it.

you can accept all of this or not. i pretty much dont give a...........poop

Have you tried making new controls to make this easier? If you could do this this tech could be applicable. Scatz did it with DR but yoshi's DR sucked ***. This sounds like a good slide though so who knows.

 

[ZitchX]

I use Morph Ball when the opponent is blocking, Expecting an aerial or whatnot... Usually they react really strangely so that i can land a retreating Zair...

Well... Im just wondering... is the Samus Sliding thing after she does the MBB Off the side of a stage an AT?

Zx

 

[Jasona]

why haven't i been here sooner? anyway, i'm in. next time i have smash in front of me, i'll relentlessly try this until it works. sliding from a bomb sounds cool and even if i fail, i'm practically guaranteed to figure out the timing for buffering moves.
win all around!

 

[Xyro77]

Have you tried making new controls to make this easier? If you could do this this tech could be applicable. Scatz did it with DR but yoshi's DR sucked ***. This sounds like a good slide though so who knows.

I dont know how much easier pressing DOWN+B to buffer can get but its a good idea. i will try it.

 

[NO-IDea]

You know what's awesome? The new pikachu tech that can work with Samus.

You know what's even more awesome? IT HAS A VID.

Your credibility is waning the more you prolong this. In fact...

I may just record my self for like and hour and the split second i pull one off ill post it.

I may just record my self for like and hour and the split second i pull one off ill post it.

I may just record my self for like and hour and the split second i pull one off ill post it.

I may just record my self for like and hour and the split second i pull one off ill post it.

Just suck it up and record it. You're running out of reasons not to.

Albeit, you said "may" (that's probably going to be your counter-argument too.)

Alas... I'm going to go practice this pikachu tech. GL with your bomb tech.

And again, nothing personal. But you're just setting yourself up for failsauce when it comes to logic.

EDIT: And no. I directly copied and pasted that "and." Didn't realize it till just now. heh

 

[LanceStern]

The more this is prolonged the more it's fake. It'd be cool not to even mention it anymore in this topic because there's no proof.

On the other hand I've noticed there are two morph ball forms to work with:
1. You press down B while standing. Samus MBBs in the air and when the ball lands she generally gets up quick.

2. You jump and immediately cancel it with down b. I even hold the controller a different way to cancel the jump faster. What it produces is samus lays the MBB real low on the ground and stays in the MBB (she can roll across the floor) a second longer than usual. I'm going to try working with that and doing different Hadoken stuff and see what it produces. If you set Cstick to specials, you can buffer a screw attack out of it

 

[Throwback]

That sounds cool lance, I'll have to try it

 

[Undrdog]

Samus's bombz are so kewl!

 

[Crescens]

What's this new Pikachu tech that's so often mentioned?

 

[RaigothDagon]

Gonna bump this thread, found something I haven't found discussed relating to the bombs. You know the fthrow chaingrab that Pikachu has against Samus?

You can escape it with a bomb regardless of percentage. Of course you can get punished if they don't continue grabbing and do an aerial instead, but if mixed up properly, this can be avoided too.

Airdodge if you expect an aerial, and screw attack if you expect an usmash.