Momma's Boys - A Lucas Video/Archive Thread

[D e l t a]

Yo, I checked out that match vs Fox. If you want to discuss that set, the matchup or just exchange tips some time, hmu

 

[AntSSB]

I was playing really bad that set. But any tips can't hurt!

 

[Kipcom]

Been ignoring this thread for a while, but I will definitely update it after the Tipped Off 11 vods are up.

Enjoy seeing Hyper and me kicking ass, like a lot.

 

[Kipcom]

Aaaaaand updated. Check out the Luigi, Ganon, Ness, DDD, Zelda, Mewtwo, Wario, and Fox sections for the latest videos on Tipped Off


I don't see my ditto with HyperFlame on the YT channel sooooooooo idk about that. I asked KO if he'd upload it but no response as of yet I'd hate for it to go to waste, but I don't think that will be the last time I'll get to play him.

 

[D e l t a]

Despite my lack of practice showing, I was happy I did alright against Soulpech game 2. Should've gone to game 3, but I'm terrible at being clutch. One missed tech chase read on the SV platform that could've led to an Upsmash killing early at 50% and that Bair should've hit and killed at 70% are the main 2 parts of this set I'm salty I missed. Other than that, enjoy!

Delta vs Soulpech
https://youtube.com/watch?list=PLg93rgha0JqmN2qVMmqDXQo0h87RX9lkD&v=VkC5By6Sncg

I'll have my MM vs XYK when I upload the video

In other news, screw this MU lol

Frost vs Yono
https://youtube.com/#/playlist?list=PLg93rgha0JqmN2qVMmqDXQo0h87RX9lkD

 

[Kipcom]

3:56, was that dtilt an accident or were you trying to be like Mango vs Hbox in their puff ditto

Good stuff game 2. It was a lot closer than the first for sure. At 6:42 I noticed you air dodged above the platform and then used zair. If you don't plan on hitting with zair, I think it's just better to air dodge and land, since it should have less landing lag (5 frames or so).

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I'm going to try to make it out to more ePG locals in WA and play Lucas. It'll be on hitbox.tv/epeengaming on Thursdays.

 

[D e l t a]

My honest input was a Dsmash, but I should've done Dair -> Upsmash, which is where I second guessed and accidentally Dtilted. Then I did a Dsmash right after cuz I quickly realized my error and wanted to followup with a Dair to correct myself

Lots of flubs, but I just need to practice more.

I use Zair out of air dodge because it cancels the time I'm just riding up and I can fall quicker. Thus, the 5 extra landing lag frames become less of an issue. Otherwise he would hit me right out of the air dodge.

So much spaghetti. All the more drive to get better now

 

[D e l t a]

Got the money match vs XYK ripped and uploaded. Tried my best to fix the audio desyncs from our streamer. Forgive the bias / rude commentary.

Delta (Lucas) vs XYK (GnW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENmObPNRfuo

 

[20PK]

Josa (Lucas) vs Dirty Dan (Wario)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blkTqDEds_Y

words of wisdom from Neon on commentary :o look into DJC rising fair ??
also new build of Lucas w/ some changes next version?! (but not the one's we're looking for, though neon likes them at least)
+KIPCOM CALLED OUT BY NEON "13th place isn't that good"

 

[nimigoha]

Lmao Zman "Probably should not be talking about it"

 

[Kipcom]

I don't even bring up or brag about 13th place unless someone asks me how I did, but he told to place well at a big tournament so I did it.

I think 13th is good, god dammit. ~_~
I have find him one day at a tournament and beat up his wolf to convert him back to the good side.

 

[trancex]

Please do that. It will be immensely satisfying for all of us.

 

[Kipcom]

Just realized that because 3.6 will be the final version, I won't have to include any convoluted changes to the original post like putting all the 3.6 stuff into a Spoilers tab and redoing most of it so that 4.0 would take its place.


In the end, I win.


Also I'm making the OP look a little nicer by adding some stuff so yeah suggestions would be neat if you have any.


edit: accidentally undid all the edits I made and had to do them over. ****ing ****

 

[D e l t a]

Nice. Less work the better

edit: accidentally undid all the edits I made and had to do them over. ****ing ****

I did this once while writing the Lucas guide. I had it open in 2 tabs and saved my changes in the one, while the other tab got overwritten. Lost an entire section of work

 

[20PK]

Hat (Sheik) vs. Pink Fresh (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pU77PSIxR0

Coney (Wario) vs. Pink Fresh (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkCXtVt1k0

 

[D e l t a]

Hat (Sheik) vs. Pink Fresh (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pU77PSIxR0

Coney (Wario) vs. Pink Fresh (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtkCXtVt1k0

This looks like a throwback to S@X PM 3.0

 

[Kipcom]

nah if it were 3.0 pf wouldnt have gotten 4 stocked and wario's bite would be grabbing from behind warios head

Kappa

 

[DualSilence]

Dual (Lucas) vs. Rob64 (Kirby)

Too much DACUS. :x

 

[D e l t a]

*not enough

 

[20PK]

20PK (Lucas) vs. Link (Marth)
https://youtu.be/xiXuoBCO9XA?t=2m22s
First match starts at 2:22

20PK (Lucas) vs. Ziv (Snake)
https://youtu.be/xiXuoBCO9XA?t=43m02s
Second match starts at 43:02

really ****ty playing from the week before last, how am I so terrible still when I know exactly everything I'm doing wrong :'(

 

[20PK]

20PK (Lucas) vs. Link (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z52br-3bFP4

Bearfist (Lucario) vs 20PK (Lucas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bLbpXZHymU

 

[Kipcom]

Fiiiinally went out of the way to update the OP with the videos posted since the last update. I also added one of my videos into the Misc. section.

Additionally I added Junebug and HyperFlame's Lucas guide under the 'Other' section. I MIGHT put it in the Misc. section since the other section was mostly intended to link to the other sources of information on his forum, but I think that putting it in the Other section where it has bigger font will make it more visible.


Sorry that I've been kind of ignoring this topic for the last couple months. I'll be honest and just say that I didn't feel like updating for a while lol.

Next time I update I might go out of my way to look for some videos to add to the list myself, most specifically a lot of Neon/Hyperflame sets that haven't been added yet.

You guys might see more footage of me in the near future as well.

 

[Kipcom]

As promised, I have returned with more footage of yours truly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76gRzTgzYrk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY_oAwlFNco
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1L3ZfDKQRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmtPqGTO0ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZAKT-3__WU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUxy5I9VoqY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9iNHH0zvuU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDMpEtudLt0

I played pretty damn well imo, but of course there's always room for improvement. I could have done better in GFs, but even then I think I played relatively well in some of those games.

 

[Justin Cervantes]

Many flubs and adrenaline filled moments. I'd like to become more active in this thread for several reasons, first being obviously so I could improve alongside with you all. My match in the video starts at 4:38:00. This was the SoCal Arcadian and I guess I would say my first big tournament? I feel like I did okay for first time playing against Zelda but most definitely was not clean at all.

With that being said:
http://www.hitbox.tv/video/868342

Comments and aid is greatly appreciated~ and I do extend my thanks in advance.

 

[D e l t a]

I hope I don't come across harsh when I say this. To you / anyone else, myself and a number of other people are on mobile most times in the day. If possible, could you guys download / link the YouTube vod instead? Hitbox/twitch goes away after 2 or 4 weeks as well, so they'll get lost in the archives of the Internet.

Otherwise it'll be a little longer before I can give my input / anyone else on mobile can

 

[Justin Cervantes]

D e l t a No problem! It wasn't uploaded at the time, I apologize ;c. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnrQMY7jPQQ

 

[D e l t a]

haha not your fault at all. Thanks for the youtube link. If only hitbox/twitch playback worked with mobile.... I'll give some more insightful details later, but so far I like what I'm seeing. You've only been playing for a month?? That Lucas looks like a polished few months of practice. You must have read my guide and studied Hyper's video a lot (;

All flattery aside, you have a few ups and downs

Pros:
Good combo game basics. You're able to get the hit confirms to start your punishes, but lack the experience and flowchart knowledge past a few good hits. You're able to recognize exactly when you can act out of moves which is something a lot of people struggle with, especially starting out.

Crisp movement with a few tech flubs and mis-cues.

Decent spacing- needs to work on respecting your opponent's space better. Especially against Zelda who throws out hitboxes to counter approaches, you need to know when to go in and when to stay back. Even Mango, one of the most aggressive players, still has a fair amount of patience in his playstyle. Wait for your opportunities and strike when the time is right.

Cons:
As I said above, you lack some higher level combo experience. Look how you drop combos and see what could be done to followup better. For instance, the first 10 seconds and you did a magnet and tried following up with Bair. On a good amount of other characters, this would have worked. Verses floaties however, they go much higher from magnet and you will need to use a guaranteed Uair -or- DJC Nair first few hits (won't knock the opponent away) then Utilt if they don't jump out and try to counter attack. That can lead to a better combo than some repeated Uairs as the hitstun from Utilt is much greater than Uair.

Patience. I agree with the commentators here. It's hard playing a hyper aggressive character with short range. All you want to do is go in, but your hitboxes and range say otherwise. Dash dance more and bait options. After a while of practice in-game, you'll find it extremely satisfying when you force your opponent to throw out a bad option, then you punish it immediately. This is something that all players should be doing, especially us Lucas mains.

Recovery. This comes along with over-committing too much off-stage. If you're going to go deep, learn how to make it back and not get pineapple'd by the stage. Know how to use your tethers better and learn the angles of PKT2. PKT2 also has a great range so don't be afraid to drift a bit off-stage to get a better angle / sweetspot the ledge.

 

[20PK]

20PK (Lucas) vs. Baxter (Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbHAdQ_7ldk
Here's general feedback on this I got from Hyperflame, in case anyone else has similar problems to me and would benefit from the advice:

Spoiler

mmm well I'm just gonna point out like some serious flaws 20pk
upsmash in neutral - don't do this
i'm all about random DACUSes but at least I'm throwing out a PKF to force/cover an option besides shielding
it seems like you have "phases" to your neutral/combo game
you'll start doing magnets but then all of a sudden that's ALL you do
and while magnet is like best combo starter ever it's not exactly the fastest way to rack up damage and not that guaranteed for continuing combos
so I saw you doing a lot of magnet -> multi-reverse magnets and you could have just settled for a tech chase into a dash attack and continued from there
you tend to always recover high but this is probably just you being scared of getting up from ledge, get comfortable with your ledge options
and yeah definitely get your edgeguarding down
like the commentators said you back threw a falco and then... ran to center stage
oh uh don't PKT as close to the edge of the stage are you were doing that's asking to get hit out of your recovery
but yeah it seems like you've got your multimagnets down, you just have to get your reaction time down so that you can actually react to landing a magnet / them rolling away
but... don't overrely on it
you have other moves than PKF and magnet lol throw out some djc fairs
aight i'm done

and earlier feedback I got from Delta

Spoiler

Overall, a lot of your games look like warm ups / hand warmers lol. You use tons of tech and throw out moves without thinking what's going to hit and how to follow it up. Multi-mag approaches and doing mag->DJC aerials at high % especially, mag / Uair don't lead to anything and past 130% you should look for a sweet spot Fair instead of sourspot.

Mag -> grab is good on shield since they anticipate you continuously shield pressuring and want to find openings to escape without getting hit. So shield grabs / sometimes safe aerials OoS.

Basically, your followups need work. Practicing the combo trees, studying how other Lucas players (myself, Neon, Kip, Hyper) use the combo tree and what moves we do at relative %'s (think in terms of 0-30, 30-50, 50-70, 70-100, 100-120, 120+).

Securing a kill is difficult at top level and getting mixups to consistently take stocks (3rd hit Dair followups, Uthrow, Bthrow / Dthrow DI mixups, PKF -> sweetspot aerial/DACUS, etc).

You're doing good so far. Just put some more thought into your play and don't auto pilot as much. Your awareness of the opponent is somewhat there, but self-awareness and how you put your moves out there is lacking the most IMO. Once you're confident in how your moves connect, you can move onto placing those moves in neutral / punish game accordingly.

SHFFL retains your momentum, but sometimes you need to land faster to get a burst momentum from dash instead of his slower air momentum carrying you forward. DJC is better for combos, SHFFL for neutral.

Make sure when you throw out DACUS, they're shielding closer to the ledge (shield push) and that you know how they punish. If they can ledge dash / WD OoS or simply drop shield and react fast enough, or if they go for a neutral reset

Uhh, you need to have a better understanding when the opponent wants to shield, jump, or dash dance. If they're DDing outside the range, your PKF typically whiffs and you run in with like mag or something when they're on the outside of the stage. Thus, giving up stage control and leading to you getting hit. If they shield, you occasionally run in with bad aerials / shield pressure and get shield grabbed / punished for bad spacing. If they jump, you seem to throw out another PKF after the first already whiffed, which leads to them coming down on you with an aerial. Those 3 situations you should always be aware of when throwing out PKF. Test their reaction.

Against fox just dash attack / grab -> up throw him. Don't get fancy with it. Simply put him into the air then juggle to death. Or throw him offstage and PKF the SideB / UpB startup. Any time fox goes horizontal to the stage.

 

[Scraket]

Scraket (Lucas) vs The Doctor (Mario)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bokjPAL37Q8

Scraket (Lucas) vs Mavis Beacon (DK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXz3MNGYgoI

Scraket (Lucas) vs Matasd (Wario)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJYpSAxOwFo

some sloppy Lucas sets

 

[Justin Cervantes]

D e l t a Sorry for the late reply! Been busy with school and other business haha. I've been playing for a month or two competitively however my fingers are conditioned to press buttons after coming from Marvel, albeit that was about four years ago. I guess I didn't lose my execution as much I thought I would have LOL. I did look at your guide, so plenty thanks to your knowledge however at the same time I did not look at HyperFlame's guide. I mostly just reference some written works and use Neon as a visual/match-up knowledge base.

I figured as much though, I really appreciate your input on this. I told a bunch of buddies of mine that my biggest roadblock for that tournament was my inexperience and nerves. Because at the moment, I feel like I can take so many games off of people but I'm never entirely sure what I can do while at the same time, like everyone says, my impatience. The one scenario I really hold myself accountable for was game 1 in the situation where I SD by pineapple-ing at the bottom. In the moment, I HONESTLY felt like I was going to drift back into stage with no problem. Alas, that did not happen and in hindsight I should have reverse magnet --> Tether back on to stage.

I'm also trying to figure out what is safe and unsafe currently. Out of shield Dair, Nair, Magnet... are there any other options?

Now straying away from the video, I also do seek advice in the Samus/Roy match up. More specifically those who rely on crouch cancelling in order to get their hits. I find it rather annoying and feel as if my options are really limited especially in the Roy match up. Maybe it is just my tendency that I just want to beat everything out with moves of my own, but I guess that does come with restraint. What are ways other people bait bad options when your opponent refuses to make the first move and tries to lame you out?

Thank again in advance!

 

[D e l t a]

I'll respond to some of those questions later

As for best Lucas' OoS options, Nair works if the opponent doesn't CC after or have quick followups. The first few frames don't always seem to connect / knockback opponents. Fair is good, short ranged, and connects right at frame 5 (frame 6 if perfectly DJC'd), but if you don't get the Sweetspot, the opponent can punish you. Dair has difficulty with range and sometimes misses Marth / Sheik if they're dashing. Also, the first 2 hits change their hurt boxes, which makes it tricky to land the final hit.
Grab works best against dash attacks / super laggy moves on shield. I linked a gfycat where Sartron shield grabbed Ally (game 2 on GHZ at blacklisted iirc) and it was a max range shield grab
I've almost never used magnet OoS
PKF OoS is great if the opponent can't be hit by anything close ranged. Certain smashes on shield (Mario Dsmash, Squirtle Fsmash, etc).
WD OoS allows you to punish super laggy moves on shield with little shield knockback: Marth/Roy/Ike/Bowser/Samus Fsmash and the like. Depends on the move's cooldown, but for certain, those listed above can be punished WD -> grab, aerials, magnet, Fsmash.

 

[20PK]

Can you elaborate on why you think magnet OoS is bad? Jamwa told me it was good

 

[D e l t a]

startup frames, the release hitbox being much later, and if it's not within 1-2 frames perfect, you'll burn your double jump to jump out / WD back. You'll also be holding down which makes your DI bad if the opponent hits you in the midst of mag

 

[Kipcom]

Kip (Lucas) vs. Player-3 (DK, Wario, ZSS) - Grand Finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogTKnLeftyo

Will update OP with the new VODs whenever eroifgblkfeodlkx

 

[Scraket]

Here are some netplay friendlies I had with Yink (Snake) last month
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3hsL--4Mts

 

[D e l t a]

"Scraket getting dumpstered"

>loses 90% of the games LOL

I love AZ haha

 

[D e l t a]

Sooo I'm kinda rusty but here's some videos of my & my training partner messing each other up for about an hour

Delta (Lucas) vs Railz (Diddy, Sheik, Wolf)
https://youtube.com/watch?feature=em-upload_owner&v=mkqDHO2tqM4

Delta (Lucas) vs Railz (Yoshi, Diddy, Ivy) Friendlies pt. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcbrfnIEJVI

@HyperFlame Here's those videos of me getting 0-50% combos against Marth

Delta (Lucas) vs £↓ (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNys6jwsAXw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Scraket]

Scraket (Lucas) vs Applesauce (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6BLLsoclNw

Scraet (Lucas) vs Matasd (Wario)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfhYWt7Oqg

Got bopped this tournament but these sets weren't bad

 

[Kipcom]

lol that poor fox