Vaccine
Smash Journeyman
tips for the falco link match up as well as stages i can thank em to please!!
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Q&A Falco Q&A
- Thread starter Mogwai
- Start date
Subbing cause I'm not already for some reason.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Falco vs. Link? I played UltimaScout, and I got this basic idea of the matchup:
- Keep the lasers coming; Link is slow to move and he can't out-projectile you if you keep him locked in with lasers.
- He has no real valid OOS options (either nair or up-B are his fastest options, and they're pretty bad), so just keep shield pressuring until it breaks or they get hit.
- As far as stages go, I would suggest taking them to the larger stages where you can abuse his slow speed. My preference would be DL > PS > FD > FoD > YS > BF.
DL: wide for good lasering; top platform helps extend combos; may not be favorable if you have trouble edge guarding cause the blast zones are so large
PS: wide like DL; no top platform; smaller blast zones
FD: also pretty wide; no platforms make it hard for them to get around lasers, but can also hinder your own combos
FoD: hard to laser cause of low platforms and it's pretty small; blast zones are good; Link's nair ***** you if you're under a small platform (if they do that double nair BS); I only like this stage because the ledge is better for you than BF and you can combo pretty hard
YS: really small, so not many chances to laser; lack of rooms makes it easy to get tossed/knocked off for a gimp; if you can get a combo going though, it's pretty impossible for them to get out, but same for them with uairs going through plats
BF: just a slightly larger YS, but the ledges are hard for recovering because you can't wall-ride
99% of the Link matchup is knowing that you're a strickly better character and using that swag to abuse him. Like, really the only thing Link can proactively do vs. Falco is Full Hop nair shenanigans and if you just learn that hitbox and how to avoid it you'll win pretty ****ing easily.
Beat!
Smash Master
Couldn't this be applied to the majority of Falco's low-tier match ups?
Bones0
Smash Legend
I think a lot of people would argue it applies to EVERY matchup. lol
Beat!
Smash Master
Eh, I don't think you can beat top/high tier chars with Falco by simply "playing a better char".
Assuming the opponent isn't bad, ofc :d
Assuming the opponent isn't bad, ofc :d
yea, it's mostly just the mindset you need to use vs. Low Tiers other than Axe, lol. Axe's Pika is top tier and you gotta think about that ****.
Bones0
Smash Legend
It's that Pokemon mindgames. You go "Aw man, a freakin' Pikachu? Haven't seen one of these *******s since Viridian Forest. Free experience, let's do this."
*you get ******
"WTF this piece of **** is Lvl 100! Who doesn't evolve their god damned Pikachu?"
"Mother ****ing Axe Ketchum, that's who!"
*you get ******
"WTF this piece of **** is Lvl 100! Who doesn't evolve their god damned Pikachu?"
"Mother ****ing Axe Ketchum, that's who!"
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
i think link more than most low tiers is going to lose because you can sit just outside his grab range and laser and he has almost no options. fh nair is fine but it's not gonna do much to you, all he can do is retreat and you learn how he retreats and **** him.
also i disagree about his sh nair OoS, it's actually a very good option. Not for speed, particularly, but it's quick enough to catch you a lot of the time and has tremendous priority.
also i disagree about his sh nair OoS, it's actually a very good option. Not for speed, particularly, but it's quick enough to catch you a lot of the time and has tremendous priority.
the nair is really fast. the problem is that link's jump is ****ing 7 frames. poor guy 
Vaccine
Smash Journeyman
thanks for the tips guys
what openings should i be looking for and what moves can i use to beat out the nair?
what openings should i be looking for and what moves can i use to beat out the nair?
Bones0
Smash Legend
It's his second fastest move OOS, not counting situations where they are holding a bomb.
Just make your own openings with lasers. Any time he seems stuck on the ground, especially in shield, just start dair/nair-shining his ***. I wouldn't challenge his nair though. He's probably gonna FH nair, then double jump nair, but after that he's free game the second he lands.
i don't play a lot of links but @HIV:
1) get him off stage and try to eliminate his recovery with lasers and if he grapples don't let him recover cuz once he uses the grapple once he can't use it again until his feet touch the ground
2) when he's in shield approach with late shffl's as his OOS game is garbage and if he is getting around that switch it up with shine approaches or shine grabs, SHINE GRABS RAAAAAAAAAPE Link lol
1) get him off stage and try to eliminate his recovery with lasers and if he grapples don't let him recover cuz once he uses the grapple once he can't use it again until his feet touch the ground
2) when he's in shield approach with late shffl's as his OOS game is garbage and if he is getting around that switch it up with shine approaches or shine grabs, SHINE GRABS RAAAAAAAAAPE Link lol
Incronaut
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2007
- Messages
- 610
couple questions:
1. if im SHFFLing a nair, and it hits someone at the mid-late part of the nair, do i have to change around my fast fall timing to accomodate for that? sometimes i feel like im not fast falling depending on when my nair hits... i know you L-cancel differently, but i wasnt sure about fast falling
2. how does powershielding work? if im SHFFLing a late dair and they powershield it, can they react before i shine?
1. if im SHFFLing a nair, and it hits someone at the mid-late part of the nair, do i have to change around my fast fall timing to accomodate for that? sometimes i feel like im not fast falling depending on when my nair hits... i know you L-cancel differently, but i wasnt sure about fast falling
2. how does powershielding work? if im SHFFLing a late dair and they powershield it, can they react before i shine?
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
1) i mean there's slightly less hitlag? it seems more likely that in the situations you're hitting with a late nair you're not quite where you expected to be and havent adjusted for that, though. just stay sharp.
2) their character can but the human probably doesnt have that kind of reaction time.
Vaccine
Smash Journeyman
say i shine someones shield can i grab them out of shine before they grab me out of shield?
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Depends on who is more frame perfect with their grab haha.
I think the shine's stun on shield barely beats out the shieldgrab by a couple frames but don't take my word on it ... it depends on who has better timing really
I think the shine's stun on shield barely beats out the shieldgrab by a couple frames but don't take my word on it ... it depends on who has better timing really
yea on the falco frame guide someone was saying that electric attacks have somewhat more hitlag on the defender which might have something to do with you being able to shine-grab faster than they can shiel-grab, they might still get you if they're frame perfect and you're slippin tho 
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
The title of this thread made me lol. That is all
!!!RM!!!
Smash Journeyman
What specific uses does Fair have? I feel like its a really good move that I just don't use enough in my game. :/
Beat!
Smash Master
Uthrow -> Fair works great vs Marth at low percents (it works decently against some other characters too, but against Marth you usually hit several times for a lot of damage).
It's also good for comboing Ganon, and at high percents, it usually combos decently vs fastfallers.
It's also good for comboing Ganon, and at high percents, it usually combos decently vs fastfallers.
Veetaak
Smash Lord
You could also extend combos at mid% or if your nair/dair can't reach them then fair is good too
Fortress | Sveet
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Fair is the furthest hitting forward move. On top of the uses already mentioned, you can use it when nair or dair will miss such as after a well DI'd shine or possibly OoS if for some reason you really want to hit them lol
Also, on FD when you are doing dair->shine->dair->shine ect combos on fox/falco/falcon, you can mix up a fair after the last shine to pop them up into more stuff (like a fsmash or dair off stage)
Also, on FD when you are doing dair->shine->dair->shine ect combos on fox/falco/falcon, you can mix up a fair after the last shine to pop them up into more stuff (like a fsmash or dair off stage)
AvengerAngel
Smash Journeyman
Couldn't they just DI away like with Nair? Are you supposed to hit with only the first/second hit of the Fair to get them where you can Dair/Fsmash them? :x
I dunno, it doesn't really work for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong
I dunno, it doesn't really work for me. Maybe I'm doing something wrong
!!!RM!!!
Smash Journeyman
If its out of an Uthrow you could always input a dash before you Fair to give it a little extra range to beat their DI.
Fortress | Sveet
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It was either forward or zhu who started doing it. Basically fair has a weaker knockback than nair and a different angle so unless they are actually holding out they will get combo'd. Check some of their matches or probably one of the early happy feet vids have an example.
john!
Smash Hero
i definitely remember that **** in the mango + alex + lucky video lemme find it
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYW4GuwM1uI&feature=player_detailpage#t=96s
edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYW4GuwM1uI&feature=player_detailpage#t=96s
Fortress | Sveet
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wow john i forgot how **** that video really was.
AvengerAngel
Smash Journeyman
I actually took the idea from Hiko and Shiz x)
Hiko used to Uthrow > Fair a lot, lol
Hiko used to Uthrow > Fair a lot, lol
john!
Smash Hero
Fortress | Sveet
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Thats my first time seeing that one lol. I enjoyed it a lot lol
Hi! I got a question for you guys: I play a PAL Falco. What are the differences on the playing style?
I watched a lot of NTSC/JP vids but (mainly) because of the PAL Dair I can not reproduce them. Pillaring a Fox is a lot harder. Marth and Fox are also lighter: they are easier to KO but harder to combo. Marth flies too far up to Dair him after a shine on low %. Anyone has any tips or videos I can learn from?
Also I could use some minor wavedash/waveshine advice. Stupid 6 frames timing on a wavedash... I tend to turn around and get stuck in my shine when I waveshine backwards. Same with shine --> Bair, I'm way too slow. I'm playing purely for fun since there are no smash players in my area: I heard a lvl 7 CPU is the way to practice since he DI's randomly? Thanks in advance guys.
I watched a lot of NTSC/JP vids but (mainly) because of the PAL Dair I can not reproduce them. Pillaring a Fox is a lot harder. Marth and Fox are also lighter: they are easier to KO but harder to combo. Marth flies too far up to Dair him after a shine on low %. Anyone has any tips or videos I can learn from?
Also I could use some minor wavedash/waveshine advice. Stupid 6 frames timing on a wavedash... I tend to turn around and get stuck in my shine when I waveshine backwards. Same with shine --> Bair, I'm way too slow. I'm playing purely for fun since there are no smash players in my area: I heard a lvl 7 CPU is the way to practice since he DI's randomly? Thanks in advance guys.
B-Rod Z
Smash Rookie
Hey so I was playing the other day with some friends and I was Falco versus Marth on FoD (I guess it applies on other stages too). On the platform the Marth tried the tipper forward smash and I charged a downsmash and it went through me because of the invincibility frames on Falco's legs.
I was wondering if there was any way to utilize that. Like if I timed it correctly I could hit the hitbox of the forward smash but not get hit by it. I think I've seen people do it against Marth's recovery but idk if the same principles apply.
I was wondering if there was any way to utilize that. Like if I timed it correctly I could hit the hitbox of the forward smash but not get hit by it. I think I've seen people do it against Marth's recovery but idk if the same principles apply.
uhhh, it's not really possible because of how disjoint Marth's hitboxes are. The best charge dsmash trick is to charge it when a Peach dsmashes.
Veetaak
Smash Lord
You can dair marth after a shine.
It will be alot easier if you skip the waveshine part ( I assume you do that cuz I did that too when I couldn't dair after the shine ) and just double jump after the shine and then you should be up there, in the air with marth and you can do your dair. If they DI the shine you can atleast try to jump to where they DI
I know not to waveshine on Marth, since he is not a fastfaller.
When I simply double jump out of the shine and try to Dair, it takes too much time like 2 out of 3 times. It only works on 0-15 %. Above that, he flies to far and can simply hit me with his stupid aerials.
Am I doing it wrong, can it be done faster? Any more tips guys? Thanks.
Veetaak
Smash Lord
Maybe you should try to watch some Falco vs Marth matches and focus on how the Falco follows up after his shine and compare it to what you are doing.
And I don't think that Pal dair makes any difference in your situation so you can go ahead and watch some NTSC Marth v Falco