MLG 2014 Feedback / Discussion

Solid Jake

The Arcanum
Joined
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Messages
3,302
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Farmington, CT
#1
Hello all!

If you have not heard we have just started working on some exciting plans for 2014! Right now we don't have a lot of information to share, but we do want to hear your feedback! Please send me any questions, suggestions, or general feedback here so that we can make it the greatest year the community has ever seen! I will post in more detail for what we want to hear soon. For now, let's start with this.

Melee is not 100% confirmed YET
There still a few things to figure out, but SSBM will VERY likely be at MLG.

Stage LIst: Modern? Or should we add in some retro stages?
Let us know how you feel about stage list for SSBM.

• We WILL be using CRT's exclusively in the event SSBM is ran at MLG anaheim.
We would most likely be reaching out to the community to help with this.

• SMASH 4
If Smash 4 is out before the event, we will highly consider running it alongside Melee.

• BRAWL MAY BE RAN ALONGSIDE MELEE
In the event that smash 4 is not out, we may run Brawl alongside Melee

Project M is likely not an option.
As much as I love the game, I don't think Nintendo would be too excited about us running a mod of their game.




I will update this thread when I can. And I will post updates on twitter @SolidJakeGG
 

Divinokage

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
16,250
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Montreal, Quebec
#4
2014!!! Woooo!!!!

Edit: Not sure what kind of feedback you are looking for but for a good tournament, I'd want to see some hype 1v1 matches on stream meaning probably have some sort of fight card or something similar. Have enough TVs for lots of MMs/friendlies other than that.. whatever added cool events or bonuses you guys can do is always a nice surprise! =) Like trophies and stuff.

I'd prefer pools honestly rather than Bracket pools, it's more fun to fight more people. =P
 

Cowsaymeow

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
44
#6
2014!!! Woooo!!!!

Edit: Not sure what kind of feedback you are looking for but for a good tournament, I'd want to see some hype 1v1 matches on stream meaning probably have some sort of fight card or something similar. Have enough TVs for lots of MMs/friendlies other than that.. whatever added cool events or bonuses you guys can do is always a nice surprise! =) Like trophies and stuff.

I'd prefer pools honestly rather than Bracket pools, it's more fun to fight more people. =P
I don't think Friendlies and whatnot will be easy to do in a place like mlg considering they have to allocate space to LoL, SC2, CoD and whatever else they might add.

I also like the idea of pools instead of just a straight bracket.
 

WhizPower

Smash Rookie
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WhizPower
#7
Well for us to give proper feedback you would have to explain a little bit more about what MLG is planning with Smash ;)

Will we be seeing tournaments? Just stream content? etc.

If SSBM would indeed be back on the Pro Circuit.. Expect HUGE support, the Smash community is awesome like that. Looking forward to hearing more!
 

Beat!

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
3,214
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Uppsala, Sweden
#9
Hype! How will you go about designing a ruleset? Will you let the smash community take care of it on its own, or do you intend to have a say in it as well?
 

Personman

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
1
#15
Hello all!

If you have not heard we have just started working on some exciting plans for 2014! Right now we don't have a lot of information to share, but we do want to hear your feedback! Please send me any questions, suggestions, or general feedback here so that we can make it the greatest year the community has ever seen! I will post in more detail for what we want to hear soon. For now, let's start with this.
  • Stage list (modern stage list, or thowback? Pokefloats?)
  • Tournament format (pools, bracket pools, straight bracket)
  • Wobbling
I will update this thread when I can. And I will post updates on twitter @SolidJakeGG

Modern stage list, please. Changes happen for reasons : )

Slight preference for pools, because I think they are generally a bit fairer than the others, but not a strong preference.

I am a strong proponent of Wobbling being allowed. I submit Wobbles's performance at Evo as my evidence. Those matches were amazing. (I also philosophically believe that banning as few in-game actions as possible is best, and I'd rather see ICs banned entirely if it becomes necessary. But it doesn't seem like that's very likely to happen.)
 

WhizPower

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WhizPower
#17
Stage list (modern stage list, or thowback? Pokefloats?)
Keep it modern, I'd say. There's a reason we don't play those old maps anymore. ;)

Tournament format (pools, bracket pools, straight bracket)
Pools are necessary I think, as far as what type of pools goes, it doesn't really matter to me.

Wobbling
I think wobbling should be allowed. Sure some people think it's cheap, but that didn't stop some amazing matches with ICs from happening, just look at Wobbles' run at EVO 2013.
 

Habefiet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
442
Location
Minneapolis, MN
#18
This is amazing

Feedback:

--RE: stagelist, you'd probably want to do the most modern stagelist, or at most the 9-stage list used up through 2010-2011ish. Too big of a throwback risks alienating a ton of modern players of all skill levels. Messy business all around. Modern stagelist is probably wisest.
--RE: tourney format, that strongly depends on the number of setups and duration of the event. Assuming maximum resources, why not do something a bit like MLG's old days? Seed some of the top players into bracket or later rounds of pools automatically and have everyone else do pools. Round robin pools are the most bang-for-buck for low level players but some high level players don't like having to spend a significant portion of their time stuck at one setup murdering scrubs, so that seems like a decent compromise. Bracket pools are still a relatively foreign concept to Smashers (although Apex runs bracket pools nowadays and Evo ran bracket pools almost none of our other events run pools in this manner) so RR pools might be a better bet. Straight bracket is dumb. Whatever you do, don't do that unless the event is just 32 of the top players going at it or something with no entry for lower level people at all (and even then I think we'd all really enjoy seeing round robin pools for those dudes just so we can see as many amazing sets recorded as possible).
--RE: Wobbling, it's legal more often than not nowadays and a recent community poll indicated a fairly large majority support its legality IIRC (can't find it again, it's somewhere in the MIOM Facebook group) so it seems to me that that's your answer right there.

This is amazing
 

Frost | Odds

Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
Messages
2,328
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Calgary, Alberta
#20
I'm a bit new (returning player from 6 years ago), so my opinions here might be unpopular.

Stage list (modern stage list, or thowback? Pokefloats?)

- DK64 is a damn cool counterpick stage. The barrel can help level the playing field for some of the roster with bad vertical recoveries (DK, Ness, Bowser, Luigi), and the rotating platforms are an interesting mechanic. The angled floor helps with projectile camping a bit.
I recognize that stalling with Peach/Puff can be a problem on this stage, but it's not really that different in that respect from Dreamland. I don't know if it's a great idea to include DK64, but I'd really personally love to see it.
- I'm a fan of Jungle Japes, too, but that would probably be a bad idea, and allow for a few too many stage johns.

Tournament format (pools, bracket pools, straight bracket)

- Pools are great to reduce variance, and ensure that the cream actually rises to the top. A huge tournament like MLG isn't really under the kinds of time/setup limitations that can plague smaller tournaments, so I cannot fathom any reason that you *wouldn't* want to use pools before dumping players into the bracket.
- We also get to see more matches this way. Hurray, pools!

Wobbling

- Are the IC's better than Fox if wobbling is allowed? Almost certainly not. It may not be the most fun thing to watch, but the scale of the problem is so minute that I almost don't even understand the issue. I'm also of the opinion that the solution is worse than the problem: it's no fun as a spectator or a player to have to worry about grey areas with rules.

Edit: I'm incredibly happy that this is happening again. I also love the hell out of your avatar. Long live the Emperor!
 

Comatose

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
147
Location
Bay Shore, NY
#21
Modern stage list definitely. no real pools preference, maybe bracket pools if friendlies are offered, pools if not (that way w/o friendlies some less experienced players get more games in). And I think it would be just a mistake to not include wobbling, as wobbles was a crowd favorite at EVO, in part because of that.
 

Strong Bad

行くぜ!
Moderator
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Oakland, CA
#22
MBR stagelist, use the actual DSR that's there that prevents double FD. Avoid even citing it as "DSR" and simply explain the rule itself.

Wobbling legal.

Tournament format: Just do double-elim bracket, split up into smaller sections for ease of organization. "Bracket Pools" if you will. Huge events should not be the "Come here and get in good tourney practice via RR pools" events, that's what locals and regionals are for. Just determine who the best players are, run the event on-time, and give players plenty of time for friendlies/do things unrelated to Smash, which are abound at MLG events. I won't be attending an MLG unless it's in like KC or PM is an event (extremely unlikely), so feel free to ignore me. Those are just my thoughts as a member of the community for going on 6 years and being one of the most prolific co-TOs of the MW, having MELEE-FC10R, TBH2, and TBH3 under my belt. Excited for the Melee community, things are really looking up for Smash in 2014.
 

FlashingFire

Smash Journeyman
Writing Team
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Jul 2, 2013
Messages
454
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Norman, OK
#27
Melee MLG??? Somebody pinch me.

  • Current stage list
  • I'd enjoy seeing RR pools because of the greater amount of hype matchups, but if bracket pools are necessary for practical reasons I have no complaints.
  • Wobbling legal
 

KrIsP!

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
2,599
Location
Toronto, Ontario
#28
Keep the stage list and settings as we usually have them, I cannot stress enough how important it is to use the proper DSR, looking above at strong bad and seeing it too lol

RR Pools, you can do them I'm sure (unless you really don't think you can) they're better in every way imaginable for the player, just not good for the schedule but Big House ran my entire pool so quickly and efficiently with 2 TVs for 11 people so I think MLG where things are run professionally can handle it.

I say ban wobbling, we've already had the wobbling debate for Evo and admittedly Mr Wizard was biased towards not banning an infinite but he let people decide and it was pretty split without either side minding that much on the outcome compared to other things like a proper stage list or DSR. As for the technique, it takes you out of the equation, inescapable past mashing which becomes impossible very quickly, takes an entire stock with huge reward and little risk and turns the entire neutral into platform camp until the ICs mess up and then go for nana. The best argument for it is that a grab should be a kill anyways, let them get the kill then. It's not broken and it's not prevalent but it obviously effected Evo greatly (as did Bo3's) Wobbles' grab set ups were incredible, but that's just it, one grab and then he didn't mess up his rhythm in pressing A while hbox and PP easily lost large leads and decided it best to camp. I don't mind it too much either way, would prefer you ask TOs and top players for this one, I see a lot of "I think it's entertaining (to watch someone nervously avoid a simple grab infinite that could cost the hundreds of dollars)"
 
Joined
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#29
YESZ!!!! I finally get to be part of a new era of big name Melee tournaments!! Following this thread.

1. Current Stage List
2. Bracket
3. Wobbling.......meh, I'll say yes and see if people should consider a revision later.
 

Ezzee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
187
#30
1.) Modern stage list.
2.) I think everybody enjoys RR pools more because you're guaranteed a good amount of games, making it more fun.
3.) Wobbling shouldn't even be a discussion at this point #freeiceclimbers
 

The Business

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Messages
249
#31
I'm a bit new (returning player from 6 years ago), so my opinions here might be unpopular.

Stage list (modern stage list, or thowback? Pokefloats?)

- DK64 is a damn cool counterpick stage. The barrel can help level the playing field for some of the roster with bad vertical recoveries (DK, Ness, Bowser, Luigi), and the rotating platforms are an interesting mechanic. The angled floor helps with projectile camping a bit.
I recognize that stalling with Peach/Puff can be a problem on this stage, but it's not really that different in that respect from Dreamland. I don't know if it's a great idea to include DK64, but I'd really personally love to see it.
- I'm a fan of Jungle Japes, too, but that would probably be a bad idea, and allow for a few too many stage johns.

It's incredibly different. dreamland doesn't have 2 huge side platforms that peach/puff can just float/jump back and forth from and never be touched.

MLG should talk to renowned tournament organizers about this stuff, not us nubs anyways lol
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
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Messages
3,458
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Rochester, NY
#35
Modern stage list for sure. Definitely have DSR in effect to prevent playing on any stage that you have won on. Probably best to not even call it DSR. More professional to just explain "no playing on any stage you've won on" or whatever.

Round robin pools are more enjoyable, you get to play more matches and have a chance to play some big name players. Buuuut MLG shouldn't really be the place for them. Bracket pools are just more professional, and everything just runs more smoothly with them. We're talking a high caliber event here, not your average local or regional. Strong Bad said it best. This isn't the place for you to practice, learn, and get better, and it's why I like to see bracket pools from the biggest events like Apex, and EVO. There's a time and place for round robin pools and I don't think MLG is that place.

Wobbling I think should be legal. It's been shown time and time again to really not have an impact on results, and I think EVO shows that Wobbling can still be hype. Probably also more professional to not call it wobbling in the ruleset, as that is confusing for anybody outside of the Smash community. MLG is a big stage with a lot of non-Smashers watching. Just saying "Ice Climbers grab infinite is legal" or whatever is much more clear to anybody new to Melee.

hype hype hype
 

Dan -Zodiac-

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
149
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South Jersey
#36
DSRM! (You cannot counterpick to any stage you won on previously in the set)

Tired of always seeing a Final Destination destruction fest games 2 and 5, sorry Jason.
 

TheReflexWonder

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#37
Is it Melee-only in terms of Smash? Will Poké Floats be illegal? Will Wobbling be illegal? If the answer to any of those questions is yes, then I am not interested.
 

xIcelinkx

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
36
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New Jersey
#38
keep the modern stagelist, like everyone else has said, this current ruleset has been shown to work and adjustments to it could have serious drawbacks for a lot of players.

round robin pools > bracket pools. seed the top players into brackets after pools.

keep wobbling legal to 200% or something.
 
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