Guide Missile Tutorial

[[FBC] ESAM]

Hey guys, ESAM here. I have noticed that every Samus, whether Melee or PM, doesn't shoot missiles at optimally as they could on certain platform heights (Battlefield, PS2, anything with Battlefield type platforms). Also, people aren't utilizing B-reverse missiles as much as they could since it is GODLIKE.

Here's a video!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mkiNoRLX8w

Breakdown for what platforms are similar

SIMILAR TO POKEMON STADIUM 1 PLATFORMS (aka godlike power missile camping)
Yoshi's Island (melee)
Warioware
Side platforms of Lylat Cruise

Similar to Battlefield (Combined missile camping, as discussed in the video)
Pokemon Stadium 2
Middle Lylat platform

Need to double jump or just double missile camp
Dreamland
Skyworld
Skyloft

So yeah, learn how to do missile stuff in more depth pl0x. It makes Samus a MUCH better character because her pressure becomes absolutely ridiculous.

<3

 

[ph00tbag]

Several years in the making.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Nobody in melee does it either and it bothers me...

 

[KingChaos]

Cool got it. I shall perfect these spam methods .

 

[pizzacato]

I've always hated the missile fart when you try to shoot a third missile too fast. lol
Great stuff ESAM!

 

[Chevy]

Worth noting is that on PS2 you can also platform cancel Smash missiles fired near the apex of your short hop. Double jump might be faster though.

 

[Litt]

Nobody in melee does it either and it bothers me...

Yeah... ahh I do them in both melee and PM dude, to say that no one else does it, is a very large exaggeration. I learned MCs from watching your match against M2K at Xanadu last year when I first started, and not many samuses use them on stages like battlefield or dreamland in melee, but the short hop platform missile cancels a good number do them. Ycz6 uses them effectively, Knut is amazing at them and shffmcs (which even you don't utilize in melee) and so does Pi... With only like 15 samus mains out there making any headway in the scene and stylistic differences, you can't say no one does, but about a third do.

 

[pizzacato]

lol serously there's only 45 Samus mains. Kappa

 

[Burnsy]

You've said several times now that "literally no other Samus does this in P:M or Melee" and that bothers you.

Not sure if this was just hyperbole or you were trying to make a point, I may not be a Samus player but I've always been aware of this tech and have seen many Samus players in both Melee and P:M do it regularly in their matches. I feel as though I'm missing something here?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Let me rephrase. From watching the samuses that place well in melee (Plup, Hugs, Darrell, Pi) none of them SHMC on battlefield platforms with the weak missile stuff (From the videos I have personally seen). I don't watch other PM Samuses because I don't know of many...

 

[Kaysick]

Yea there aren't too many PM Samus players. We're coming out of the woodworks though.
I like your guide, gives me more options for my missile play. Trying to apply it already to my gameplay.

 

[Litt]

Let me rephrase. From watching the samuses that place well in melee (Plup, Hugs, Darrell, Pi) none of them SHMC on battlefield platforms with the weak missile stuff (From the videos I have personally seen). I don't watch other PM Samuses because I don't know of many...

New England and Tristate samuses do, Knut, Ycz6 and myself all reping the missile spam ESAM

 

[Doctor Pink]

I am learning Samus, and I plan to blow people up repeatedly with Missiles. Thanks for the tutorial!

 

[Kati]

Great video! I did not know that b-reversals were possible with missiles, but I had accidentily done one after scar jumping and so was very interested in knowing how to replicate it.

Now that we have so many stages though, why not create a codified classification system for identifying platforms based on their height/missile cancel properties? Group A/1/whatever being ps1-ys-ww-lc group/tier B/2 being bf-ps2-middle of lc etc.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I did in the OP of this thread...

 

[Kati]

I did in the OP of this thread...

You organized them, but there are no labels for their specific groups. I realize you have an extensive melee background, so saying ____ is similar to ps1 makes a lot of sense, but "similar to ps1" is not a category label. Sorry for not being more specific.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Well I mean it's easier for people to recognize what PS1 platforms are like and associating things with that as opposed to having to redifine what "Type 1" and "Type 2" stages are, so I think it's slightly unnecessary.

 

[Kati]

Well your oppinion is valid, so we can leave it, but is ps1 even relevant anymore? It's banned at every tournament I attend/view.

 

[Litt]

Well your oppinion is valid, so we can leave it, but is ps1 even relevant anymore? It's banned at every tournament I attend/view.

Lol just because something is not at the tournies YOU attend, doesn't mean they are no longer relevant... lol

 

[Litt]

Well I mean it's easier for people to recognize what PS1 platforms are like and associating things with that as opposed to having to redifine what "Type 1" and "Type 2" stages are, so I think it's slightly unnecessary.

Sorry dude, the majority of people on here... like Kati, are rather ungrateful for the very nice guide you took the time to make, nor are they competent enough regarding the game to understand and apply everything they read. A lot of the stages are awkward with the short hop missile, some you can shoot both smash and homing on, and some only homing, so a more specific guide would help the less experienced players and just individuals that want to have a more extensive/thorough guide.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Well this is for people that already kinda know what they are doing. If there is a nublet samus, none of this will mean anything anyway because they aren't comfortable with the character. Also, i wouldn't call him ungrateful. However, if I were to label things "Type A" or "Type B" you would still associate "Wait which one is Type A....oh it's like PS1" so it's the same thing.

 

[Kati]

Sorry dude, the majority of people on here... like Kati, are rather ungrateful for the very nice guide you took the time to make, nor are they competent enough regarding the game to understand and apply everything they read. A lot of the stages are awkward with the short hop missile, some you can shoot both smash and homing on, and some only homing, so a more specific guide would help the less experienced players and just individuals that want to have a more extensive/thorough guide.

Because I totally did not mention first that I thought it was a great video. Also Klit, my point wasn't that PS1 is out of the question completely, it was regarding how much attention we should give it considering it can't be relied on to even be consistently legal. Note that I also said I don't see it in tournies I view, which happen to outnumber those I attend by quite a bit.

Jargon is jargon; yeah at first people would struggle to memorize what fits into what category, but after that, communication would be more efficient. I was just looking ahead for the Samus metagame and players not as privileged as us to have become so acquainted with melee.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Saying "like PS1" or "Like battlefield" or "Like dreamland" is also around the same ease as "Type A" or "Type B" or "Type C". It also helps the melee players or players that haven't seen this thread in particular know what we are talking about. Like I know if I went up to PLup (Best melee samus who afaik doesn't play PM samus) and go "Oh Lylalt's side platforms are type A" he would go "What the...?" as opposed to me going "Like PS1"

 

[Citricide]

I'm having trouble doing Fall through missles really fast. How do I fall through the platform right after I land on it

 

[Spleenhunter]

I seem to be having the same problem with the missiles when coming down from the platforms. About a third of the time I can land on the ground and fire a missile no problem. But the other times I either duck on the platform or turn into a morphball trying to do down then side b. I feel like I'm getting something mechanically wrong because I can't get it consistently. Is it good to let the controller go into neutral before shooting the missile, or should I be rolling the control stick from down to side?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I'm not sure honestly about the technicality of it, I just have muscle memory from melee to help me...

 

[Chevy]

Just let the stick return to neutral immediately after firing, then smash it down as soon as you land.

 

[Litt]

I think their problem actually may be their jump went too high on the platform and they didn't actually cancel their missile, so they tried to fall through a platform within the first 30 frames of landing, which the game will not let you do so unless you shai drop.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Um...I'm fairly certain that that post is actually full of BS. 30 frames? That's WAYY too much.

 

[SpiderMad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtOSf5iZhnY#t=636

If you do NOTHING then it's 30, but you can do everything except for drop starting on frame 4 IIRC so I think shai (/isai?) dropping is just walking on frame 4 then dropping

I think @ Ripple said in PM you couldn't perform it ( http://smashboards.com/posts/16621817/ ) because you would instead enter her crawl. I believe he might be wrong though cus I think I've done it (maybe once in one of these? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxbOxMpcXw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkfjFr1F0 ) so maybe he needs to adjust his timing or movements from Melee or something?

 

[Litt]

Um...I'm fairly certain that that post is actually full of BS. 30 frames? That's WAYY too much.

Im fairly certain that its correct and you should check your facts eric. And by fairly certain, I mean 100% certain, because if the missiles wasn't canceled by landing because its animation was finished before landing, normal landing properties apply to falling through the platform, where you need to wait 30 frames to drop down, or shai drop, or walk slight forward or backward and then drop. This is not even PM specific and I'm surprised that you didn't know this regarding both PM and melee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtOSf5iZhnY#t=636

If you do NOTHING then it's 30, but you can do everything except for drop starting on frame 4 IIRC so I think shai (/isai?) dropping is just walking on frame 4 then dropping

I think @ Ripple said in PM you couldn't perform it ( http://smashboards.com/posts/16621817/ ) because you would instead enter her crawl. I believe he might be wrong though cus I think I've done it (maybe once in one of these? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxbOxMpcXw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJDkfjFr1F0 ) so maybe he needs to adjust his timing or movements from Melee or something?

Sorry but Shai and Isai drops are 2 different things, but you got what an Isai drop is though. A shai drop you can fall through on frame 2, where Isai drops earliest you can drop is frame 5, when you land on a platform, you press down on frame 1, and then frame 2 light shield, then you will fall through it as fast as possible after landing. Ripple is also incorrect, you can both Isai and Shai drop with samus.
*Note there are like 4 different forms of Shai drops, and the one I listed is the only standing version of it, the other 3 involve you walking/running on a platform.*

#KnowledgeBomb dropped on Esam and Ripple jk love you guys

 

[Ripple]

I literally can't fall through platforms as samus with how I did in melee. isai dropping is pressing down+forward 2x to drop through platforms or doing a quarter circle motion. it is impossible to drop through platforms doing that motion or at least impossible at a speed equivalent to melee

 

[Litt]

I literally can't fall through platforms as samus with how I did in melee. isai dropping is pressing down+forward 2x to drop through platforms or doing a quarter circle motion. it is impossible to drop through platforms doing that motion or at least impossible at a speed equivalent to melee

I think you are forgetting about the 1 frame lag built into the game because it is using brawls engine, so you do infact need to slow it down by 1/60th of a second lol, can't do it frame perfect anymore because there is always going to be that one frame throwing you off that you need to adapt to. Instead of the quarter circle, you can tilt slightly forward and then jam down and away from where you tilted forward, haven't tested it out yet, but that should do the trick.

 

[Ripple]

I think you are forgetting about the 1 frame lag built into the game because it is using brawls engine, so you do infact need to slow it down by 1/60th of a second lol, can't do it frame perfect anymore because there is always going to be that one frame throwing you off that you need to adapt to. Instead of the quarter circle, you can tilt slightly forward and then jam down and away from where you tilted forward, haven't tested it out yet, but that should do the trick.

the 1 frame delay only applies to momentum altering moves. i.e. air dodge.

and even if it somehow applied to falling through platforms, I don't think I'd be getting it frame perfect 100% of the time

 

[Chevy]

Barbie, you need to quit talking about the "1 frame lag built into the game because it is using brawls engine". It's a one frame momentum delay, so it affects any movement slightly, but not the inputs to do them. Quit spreading misinformation please. So it has no effect on an input like shield dropping. The reason people are having trouble with dropping through platforms is because of the difference in control stick sensitivity and the addition of her crawl.

 

[Litt]

Barbie, you need to quit talking about the "1 frame lag built into the game because it is using brawls engine". It's a one frame momentum delay, so it affects any movement slightly, but not the inputs to do them. Quit spreading misinformation please. So it has no effect on an input like shield dropping. The reason people are having trouble with dropping through platforms is because of the difference in control stick sensitivity and the addition of her crawl.

No... there is a very small delay Chevy, "Because of they way Brawl is coded, every change in momentum (that is, every character movement, but not the speed of attacks) happens one frame (1/60th of a second) after it would happen in Melee." So as you need forward momentum from a standing animation, it is slowly down by 1/60th of a second, which means you LITERALLY cannot do it as fast as you could in melee. YES THE MORPH BALL AFFECTS THE QUARTER CIRCLE MOTION, BUT THIS IS THE REASON RIPPLE WAS HAVING TROUBLE WITH ISAI DROPS! I am not spreading misinformation, but you are not grasping what this information means when applied to the game. I don't want to just write off what you say because you literally created your account 2 months ago, but please don't speak to me that way, because I do like you, and your presence on these boards. No shield droping is not affected, but Isai drops are, not sure about shai, because honestly, I dont play PM much, I am a melee samus player that just plays this game at tournies for extra cash, because in my area PM is getting more popular than melee. To help you understand it better though, take a copy of melee, and play it on an HD tv, with a wavebird, and try to Isai drop with samus, then replace the HD tv with a CRT and the wavebird with a regular wired controller, and then Isai drop, yes this is an extreme example, but it will help you understand what I am saying.

 

[Chevy]

My bad, thought we were still talking about shield drops. But you should really phrase better when you talk about the momentum delay.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'm pretty lost now. Also @ Litt do you have a prior smashboards account or username?

You're saying something even as walking or dropping for an Isai drop is effected by the momentum delay?

 

[Litt]

I'm pretty lost now. Also @ Litt do you have a prior smashboards account or username?

You're saying something even as walking or dropping for an Isai drop is effected by the momentum delay?

Yes it was KLit, as for the Isai drops, the reason samus took such a long time to release was modifying not only the projectiles, and bombs, but also her crouch, which apparently affects how she drops through platforms. From what I can tell, (just tested this myself) samus can no longer Isai drop in this game, because her crouch animation into morph ball take priority even when on platforms. All you sami out there, better learn shai drops now :/

My bad, thought we were still talking about shield drops. But you should really phrase better when you talk about the momentum delay.

My bad for not being clear enough Chevy, but both of us were kind of right, you need to wait for all movement animation to be over to just fall through a platform normally, I was Shai dropping accidentally before when attempting Isai drops in tourney, so I was somewhat mistaken myself.

 

[SpiderMad]

Can any of you frame advance test to make sure it's not possible? I still haven't heard of the momentum delay effecting dropping/walking/running either

I'm pretty sure I've been able to get real quick drop throughs on my missiles on Yoshis with what i presume is Isai dropping (walking out of landing then dropping)

I mean like what am I doing if it's not an Isai drop at 0:04 and 0:10?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSxbOxMpcXw