Miracle Of Light - Palutena in SSB4 (Featuring Cereza from Bayonetta-series)

[Dinoman96]

It's once again an example of why Sakurai balancing characters around anything that isn't 1v1 and no items just isn't healthy for Smash.

See, Project M balances all of its characters around 1v1, no items, and I think they use Battlefield. And for the most part, PM features an incredible amount of perfectly viable and fun characters, with 1 or 2 characters lagging behind a little bit (Like Jigglypuff it seems). But many characters in official Smash games are balanced around other things, like most notoriously, 4 player free for alls with items on. Ike is a perfect example of that. In a more casual setting with three other friends, he seems fine enough with his big ol' sword, but he struggles in a competitive 1v1 scenario due to being slow and predictable.

Likewise, Palutena was very clearly designed around making use of the customization feature of Smash 4. It explains a lot of the strange design choices with her, like why her default set is 'generic' (the idea is that she starts of with a skeleton of a moveset and you have to customize to make her more interesting) and why her normals have a ton of lag (As JayWon mentioned, Sakurai probably saw how powerful some of her customs are such as Super Speed and Light Weight, and decided Palutena needed something to balance her out). With customs off, she just seems like a fish out of water. Similar thing with fellow custom characters the Mii Fighters.

 

[sleepy_Nex]

Since Palutena sucks on FG i don't think she is FG viable.

 

[Dinoman96]

Since Palutena sucks on FG i don't think she is FG viable.

I'd say she's playable there considering I've still won tons of matches with her. A lot of that has to do with the fact that FG is filled with a lot of ****ters that don't know what they're doing, but eh.

 

[Wintropy]

Ike is slow and predictable?

This is news to me.

People are way too hyperbolic when it comes to customs.

It's a couple of weeks after EVO, would it be a terrible idea to just wait and see how the meta develops?

 

[JayWon]

Wow I always thought Palutena's sh*tty counter was AT LEAST better than Ike's. But only in damage. I'd rather have Ike's counter than Palutena's any day.


Ike's counters from frame 9-34 | FAF 59 | 1.2x damage
Palutena's counters from frame 9-31 | FAF 75 | 1.3x damage

Ike's counter frame is 3 frames longer AND FAF is faster meaning Palutena is 19 frames more vulnerable than Ike's crappy counter.

Ike's Base Knockback and Knockback Growth is way better too.
Ike BKB 48 | KBG 100
Palutena BKB 40 | KBG 75

The additional .1x damage is probably not enough to be better than Ike's.

Not a huge fan of Default Palutena but I absolutely ****ing hate her default down special.

 

[SaikyoBro]

It's once again an example of why Sakurai balancing characters around anything that isn't 1v1 and no items just isn't healthy for Smash.

See, Project M balances all of its characters around 1v1, no items, and I think they use Battlefield. And for the most part, PM features an incredible amount of perfectly viable and fun characters, with 1 or 2 characters lagging behind a little bit (Like Jigglypuff it seems). But many characters in official Smash games are balanced around other things, like most notoriously, 4 player free for alls with items on. Ike is a perfect example of that. In a more casual setting with three other friends, he seems fine enough with his big ol' sword, but he struggles in a competitive 1v1 scenario due to being slow and predictable.

Likewise, Palutena was very clearly designed around making use of the customization feature of Smash 4. It explains a lot of the strange design choices with her, like why her default set is 'generic' (the idea is that she starts of with a skeleton of a moveset and you have to customize to make her more interesting) and why her normals have a ton of lag (As JayWon mentioned, Sakurai probably saw how powerful some of her customs are such as Super Speed and Light Weight, and decided Palutena needed something to balance her out). With customs off, she just seems like a fish out of water. Similar thing with fellow custom characters the Mii Fighters.

Yeah good post (get on Skype? :3).

 

[JayWon]

Guys, I apologize beforehand for being very bitter, but I am very bitter these days after Evo with the imminent inevitability of customs being banned forever.

I've been maining Palutena since the very beginning but I've been looking for secondaries after EVO. I JUST recently picked up ZSS after seeing Nairo @Evo and I can't deny any longer Palutena is straight up terrible. I can't defend default Palutena anymore. Sure every character has potential, including Default Palutena. But her potential practically is reached and it is NO WHERE NEAR enough. When I play Palutena in the neutral, I now realize how little I feel rewarded for doing footsies well, and actually now I just feel punished for playing this character.

Palutena's neutral game is essentially limited to F-air/B-air/Jab/Down throw and it quickly stales. All her kill options are TOO slow and TOO risky. Down throw into U-air or U-smash an airdodge doesn't work with players who understand DIing away and using their second jump is the best option. There have been way too many times when I was punished for hard reading my opponent cuz it doesn't even matter because her moves are just too freaking slow (& I swear F-tilt extends her hurtbox at times). It's discouraging no? You know exactly what your opponent is going to do cuz he's an open book, but then for whatever reason lag or what not with the tiniest slip up the execution fails and you get punished. And Palutena doesn't just get punished. She just gets punished HARD.

I have no johns and it was my choice to main Palutena and their choice maining a top tier but there have been way too many times when I did most of the work/approaching and I'm clearly the better player throughout the entire game, and now we're both at death percentage final stock and BAM. Accidentally f-tilt instead of turn around jab. GGs.

Seriously, Palutena's neutral game when both are at kill percentage is way too stressful and disadvantageous. She can't do crap, she becomes limited (I think at this point I just space b-airs), she can't take risks because she gets punished HARD, her moves are too slow for reads and way too risky. Smart players know Palutena can't do crap, play extremely safe, never commit and OH LOOK Palutena used a move other than Jab/f-air/b-air! Time to punish with a fully charged smash attack!

After playing ZSS I realize how much my mentality developed an EXTREMELY Risk Averse playstyle. And quite frankly playing with this mentality isn't fun for me anymore. I want my reaction time, my level of understanding of the game, my ability to get reads to be REWARDED. Default Palutena does the opposite and punishes me for doing so.
I loved being rewarded for mastering the control of Lightweight along with all the creative mixups/kill set ups you can do with Superspeed/Jumpglide. I love custom Palutena SO MUCH honestly! She felt so free and felt divine yet clearly had her weaknesses but if played right her slow moves don't even feel slow! I used all her tilts and actually use her 1 frame D-airs; there really was potential and my time I put in her felt rewarded. But that's gone now, and we are left with Default Palutena with too much risk with too little reward with too much punishment.

I like ZSS cuz she's the closest to Lightweight Palutena! Everything about ZSS is so freaking luxurious after playing Palutena for so long! Her slow grab doesn't even feel that slow. I don't feel punished for taking risks, in fact I can spam a bunch of kill moves with very little risk. Should I booster kick? WHY NOT. YOLO!

Holy jesus I feel like kid goku on that scene from Dragon Ball when goku takes off his purple turtle shell thing. Palutena pushed me to be creative, forced me to understand the neutral in depth, and encouraged me to work on a lot of technical things to get good results unlike Yoshi/Rosalina nubs who don't have to concern themselves with trumping/pivot grabs or whatever other intermediate crap cuz their normals are so damn efficient. Lightweight Palutena really really really helped me with fine controlling and spacing. Overall I do thank all the time I spent with Palutena cuz I did develop good habits/patience/skill.

 

[Kurri ★]

Guys, I apologize beforehand for being very bitter, but I am very bitter these days after Evo with the imminent inevitability of customs being banned forever.

I've been maining Palutena since the very beginning but I've been looking for secondaries after EVO. I JUST recently picked up ZSS after seeing Nairo @Evo and I can't deny any longer Palutena is straight up terrible. I can't defend default Palutena anymore. Sure every character has potential, including Default Palutena. But her potential practically is reached and it is NO WHERE NEAR enough. When I play Palutena in the neutral, I now realize how little I feel rewarded for doing footsies well, and actually now I just feel punished for playing this character.

Palutena's neutral game is essentially limited to F-air/B-air/Jab/Down throw and it quickly stales. All her kill options are TOO slow and TOO risky. Down throw into U-air or U-smash an airdodge doesn't work with players who understand DIing away and using their second jump is the best option. There have been way too many times when I was punished for hard reading my opponent cuz it doesn't even matter because her moves are just too freaking slow (& I swear F-tilt extends her hurtbox at times). It's discouraging no? You know exactly what your opponent is going to do cuz he's an open book, but then for whatever reason lag or what not with the tiniest slip up the execution fails and you get punished. And Palutena doesn't just get punished. She just gets punished HARD.

I have no johns and it was my choice to main Palutena and their choice maining a top tier but there have been way too many times when I did most of the work/approaching and I'm clearly the better player throughout the entire game, and now we're both at death percentage final stock and BAM. Accidentally f-tilt instead of turn around jab. GGs.

Seriously, Palutena's neutral game when both are at kill percentage is way too stressful and disadvantageous. She can't do crap, she becomes limited (I think at this point I just space b-airs), she can't take risks because she gets punished HARD, her moves are too slow for reads and way too risky. Smart players know Palutena can't do crap, play extremely safe, never commit and OH LOOK Palutena used a move other than Jab/f-air/b-air! Time to punish with a fully charged smash attack!

After playing ZSS I realize how much my mentality developed an EXTREMELY Risk Averse playstyle. And quite frankly playing with this mentality isn't fun for me anymore. I want my reaction time, my level of understanding of the game, my ability to get reads to be REWARDED. Default Palutena does the opposite and punishes me for doing so.
I loved being rewarded for mastering the control of Lightweight along with all the creative mixups/kill set ups you can do with Superspeed/Jumpglide. I love custom Palutena SO MUCH honestly! She felt so free and felt divine yet clearly had her weaknesses but if played right her slow moves don't even feel slow! I used all her tilts and actually use her 1 frame D-airs; there really was potential and my time I put in her felt rewarded. But that's gone now, and we are left with Default Palutena with too much risk with too little reward with too much punishment.

I like ZSS cuz she's the closest to Lightweight Palutena! Everything about ZSS is so freaking luxurious after playing Palutena for so long! Her slow grab doesn't even feel that slow. I don't feel punished for taking risks, in fact I can spam a bunch of kill moves with very little risk. Should I booster kick? WHY NOT. YOLO!

Holy jesus I feel like kid goku on that scene from Dragon Ball when goku takes off his purple turtle shell thing. Palutena pushed me to be creative, forced me to understand the neutral in depth, and encouraged me to work on a lot of technical things to get good results unlike Yoshi/Rosalina nubs who don't have to concern themselves with trumping/pivot grabs or whatever other intermediate crap cuz their normals are so damn efficient. Lightweight Palutena really really really helped me with fine controlling and spacing. Overall I do thank all the time I spent with Palutena cuz I did develop good habits/patience/skill.

I was about to come in here and say, "Wow! I sure do love default Palutena!" But reading this, I don't 100% agree, but you have a point...

If the long train of her under my name wasn't obvious, I main ZSS. When playing Palu, I don't want to say I feel limited, but it is apparent how few moves I can use to approach. But with ZSS, maybe I'll N-air, maybe I'll F-air, maybe I'll U-air, maybe I'll just raw Boost Kick. There are far more things I can do and many of them are, as you say, "YOLO!" Default Palu doesn't have that luxury. The only move I have to really be careful with ZSS is grab, whiffing that leaves you vulnerable for nearly second, if not more.

I don't want to drop Palu because I've been having so much fun with her, but without customs she is limiting. And with Roy back, who I've been desperately wanting to return, I'm not going to drop her, but I'm probably going to be using her less.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

@ JayWon I suppose, but regardless this character is a lot of fun even w/ out customs. It becomes the battle of attrition w/ out customs, but I think she is still viable because Palutena's spacing is so good & it's hard to hit her. Sheik/Sonic/Diddy/Pikachu/ZSS seem like her most bad MUs w/ out customs, but I think you honestly have to time those characters out w/ out customs, or just hold onto your leads hardcore.

If you want to play Palutena, don't drop her. I came back to her just a week ago after maining her in 3ds for so long. She's like my spirit animal in this game. I don't really connect w/ a lot of characters besides her.

 

[sleepy_Nex]

Somebody here who wants to fight me on the Weekend?

 

[Cap'nChreest]

Guys, I apologize beforehand for being very bitter, but I am very bitter these days after Evo with the imminent inevitability of customs being banned forever.

I've been maining Palutena since the very beginning but I've been looking for secondaries after EVO. I JUST recently picked up ZSS after seeing Nairo @Evo and I can't deny any longer Palutena is straight up terrible. I can't defend default Palutena anymore. Sure every character has potential, including Default Palutena. But her potential practically is reached and it is NO WHERE NEAR enough. When I play Palutena in the neutral, I now realize how little I feel rewarded for doing footsies well, and actually now I just feel punished for playing this character.

Palutena's neutral game is essentially limited to F-air/B-air/Jab/Down throw and it quickly stales. All her kill options are TOO slow and TOO risky. Down throw into U-air or U-smash an airdodge doesn't work with players who understand DIing away and using their second jump is the best option. There have been way too many times when I was punished for hard reading my opponent cuz it doesn't even matter because her moves are just too freaking slow (& I swear F-tilt extends her hurtbox at times). It's discouraging no? You know exactly what your opponent is going to do cuz he's an open book, but then for whatever reason lag or what not with the tiniest slip up the execution fails and you get punished. And Palutena doesn't just get punished. She just gets punished HARD.

I have no johns and it was my choice to main Palutena and their choice maining a top tier but there have been way too many times when I did most of the work/approaching and I'm clearly the better player throughout the entire game, and now we're both at death percentage final stock and BAM. Accidentally f-tilt instead of turn around jab. GGs.

Seriously, Palutena's neutral game when both are at kill percentage is way too stressful and disadvantageous. She can't do crap, she becomes limited (I think at this point I just space b-airs), she can't take risks because she gets punished HARD, her moves are too slow for reads and way too risky. Smart players know Palutena can't do crap, play extremely safe, never commit and OH LOOK Palutena used a move other than Jab/f-air/b-air! Time to punish with a fully charged smash attack!

After playing ZSS I realize how much my mentality developed an EXTREMELY Risk Averse playstyle. And quite frankly playing with this mentality isn't fun for me anymore. I want my reaction time, my level of understanding of the game, my ability to get reads to be REWARDED. Default Palutena does the opposite and punishes me for doing so.
I loved being rewarded for mastering the control of Lightweight along with all the creative mixups/kill set ups you can do with Superspeed/Jumpglide. I love custom Palutena SO MUCH honestly! She felt so free and felt divine yet clearly had her weaknesses but if played right her slow moves don't even feel slow! I used all her tilts and actually use her 1 frame D-airs; there really was potential and my time I put in her felt rewarded. But that's gone now, and we are left with Default Palutena with too much risk with too little reward with too much punishment.

I like ZSS cuz she's the closest to Lightweight Palutena! Everything about ZSS is so freaking luxurious after playing Palutena for so long! Her slow grab doesn't even feel that slow. I don't feel punished for taking risks, in fact I can spam a bunch of kill moves with very little risk. Should I booster kick? WHY NOT. YOLO!

Holy jesus I feel like kid goku on that scene from Dragon Ball when goku takes off his purple turtle shell thing. Palutena pushed me to be creative, forced me to understand the neutral in depth, and encouraged me to work on a lot of technical things to get good results unlike Yoshi/Rosalina nubs who don't have to concern themselves with trumping/pivot grabs or whatever other intermediate crap cuz their normals are so damn efficient. Lightweight Palutena really really really helped me with fine controlling and spacing. Overall I do thank all the time I spent with Palutena cuz I did develop good habits/patience/skill.

^^^
100% accurate.

Palutena can't kill reliably. Its her biggest problem. Windboxes on smashes need to push people in their shields and have less cool down and quicker start up. Killing someone from a read is great and all. but its just asking for a character to be bad if that's all you have to rely on. "just get a read and the opponent is dead at 70% " "ok but now I lost a stock and took 70 % because I missed two reads against Luigi " balance man... its a wonderful thing.

Characters that have combos that kill will majority of the time be better than the character that has to just throw out some random slow move and hope it works to kill.

d-throw up air is great against people that can't di though.

 

[Maraphy]

What I would give to have Roy's kill setups...

 

[Shrokatii]

prepare for buffs... please sakurai, help your waifu

 

[Maraphy]

I wouldn't get my hopes up very high for buffs this patch, but they would be extremely appreciated..

 

[pnkgoldcatpeach]

YES SHE GOT BUFFS!

Uptilt drastically changed (goes way higher)
Forward air does 8 damage instead of 7
Side tilt can do 12 damage now!!!!
Auto Reticle does 8,9,9 damage

 

[Death Arcana]

lightweight glitch we still in there?

@ JayWon I suppose, but regardless this character is a lot of fun even w/ out customs. It becomes the battle of attrition w/ out customs, but I think she is still viable because Palutena's spacing is so good & it's hard to hit her. Sheik/Sonic/Diddy/Pikachu/ZSS seem like her most bad MUs w/ out customs, but I think you honestly have to time those characters out w/ out customs, or just hold onto your leads hardcore.

If you want to play Palutena, don't drop her. I came back to her just a week ago after maining her in 3ds for so long. She's like my spirit animal in this game. I don't really connect w/ a lot of characters besides her.

holy **** its you man

 

[TheAttitudeEra]

Uptilt drastically changed (goes way higher)
Forward air does 8 damage instead of 7
Side tilt can do 12 damage now!!!!
Auto Reticle does 8,9,9 damage

Please stop trolling. You already posted this BS on gfaqs

 

[Maraphy]

Changes I noticed:

F-air: 7% -> 8%

Possible placebos, grain of salt:

U-tilt animation is a little higher
D-throw -> D-air is a thing but it's tricky? Was that a thing before?
D-air might've gotten an extra frame lol

Edit: Training mode says D-throw -> D-air isn't a true combo, though it seems like it could still be a mixup? around 50-70 it seems like you need to follow the d-throw with a quick double jump

Edit: Tested on updated Wii U vs nonupdated 3DS, utilt and d-air are the same lol

 

[Shrokatii]

Changes I noticed:

F-air: 7% -> 8%

Possible placebos, grain of salt:

U-tilt animation is a little higher
D-throw -> D-air is a thing but it's tricky? Was that a thing before?
D-air might've gotten an extra frame lol

Edit: Training mode says D-throw -> D-air isn't a true combo, though it seems like it could still be a mixup? around 50-70 it seems like you need to follow the d-throw with a quick double jump

Training doesn't show dthrow>dair as true so I'm not sure

Wish they'd just make her smashes be less laggy. That's all I want.

 

[PlTe]

Lightweight glitch is still in.

 

[TheAttitudeEra]

Nobody cares. Customs are dumb and banned.

She wasn't changed much, you guys aren't good at figuring out anything.

 

[Maraphy]

wtf. F-tilt 6% + 6% + 4% = 16% --------> 6% + 6% = 12%

Sakurai is literally like Patrick from that one spongebob episode where he can't put his hand on the lid.... although admittedly, after trying it out that is kind of a buff because it's easy to link both hits if you're close to the opponent.

 

[Masque]

Yay for +1% on Fair!

 

[Kurri ★]

My prayers have been answered! We can use custom Palutena in tourney mode!

edit: I lost to Dongnado :/

 

[pnkgoldcatpeach]

guys you can't fall out of her up tilt anymore! tested it on 0% Kirby and Sheik!

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

People in the Palutena Skype Group have been saying all 3 of her grabs have way less endlag and D-tilt "seems faster". If only we had someone here right now who could capture footage of both versions so we know for sure...

guys you can't fall out of her up tilt anymore! tested it on 0% Kirby and Sheik!

That was last patch. Unless, of course, they buffed it again.

 

[Masque]

I don't know what any of this means, but hopefully someone here can decipher the changes!
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/palutena.html

 

[Maraphy]

I don't know what any of this means, but hopefully someone here can decipher the changes!
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/palutena.html

I'm not an expert on this but

The red and green text would appear to be what changed, since the text for F-air had 7.0 damage in red and 8.0 in green

"058 - - 8376AD51" seems like F-tilt. Instead of having a hitbox that does 6 (that hits twice I assume) and a hitbox that does 4, it has two hitboxes that deal 6 and two that deal 4. I haven't seen it do 4 at all (maybe they're on the bottom of the staff and there's a specific way you have to hit with it?), but two hitboxes that deal 6 seems right. they seem /slightly/ bigger, too: Size=3.79999995232 -> Size=4.09999990463. Oh, and BKB=0x64 -> BKB=0x41, which I'm pretty sure stands for Base Knockback, so what I'm inferring is that the hits will connect a little easier? (Which seemed to be the case when I tested that move). The angle is also changed from 169 to 30, but I'm not really entirely sure what effect that would have.

"068 - AttackAirN - 66264190" would be N-Air I assume. There's 4 hitboxes that were changed; they all appear to be the little ones that are before the final hit. The only change I see is "Size=3.0f" -> "Size=3.40000009537f" which is pretty miniscule. Maybe it'll be /slightly/ easier to connect with it after d-throw?

I'm not sure what the others are... "Catch" might be her grab, and there's "unk-7172A764(0x3f59999a)" added to it but i have no idea what that would mean

04B - EscapeN - 722DE545 - she can "escape" from some things sooner now? Are those her rolls / spotdodge? There's an escape N, F, B, and Air which would make sense if those were "neutral escape", "forward escape", "back escape" aka spot dodge, f/b roll, and air dodge. So it would seem her rolls are quicker and her air dodge is longer ?

only one i have absolutely no clue on is "05D - AttackLw3 - F252F718"

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

lightweight glitch we still in there?





holy **** its you man

Oh yep lol, bro I still remember our brawl set from Apex, that time out though lol. Your mix-ups were so good, I miss Pit :/ Palutena custom feels like Pit lol.

About to try out Palutena w/ the patch.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

@ pnkgoldcatpeach I understand the excitement, but be sure to edit your post next time to avoid double-posting.

With that said:

Carry on, fellow Palutena players! :D

 

[Masque]

I'm not sure what the others are... "Catch" might be her grab, and there's "unk-7172A764(0x3f59999a)" added to it but i have no idea what that would mean

04B - EscapeN - 722DE545 - she can "escape" from some things sooner now? Are those her rolls / spotdodge? There's an escape N, F, B, and Air which would make sense if those were "neutral escape", "forward escape", "back escape" aka spot dodge, f/b roll, and air dodge. So it would seem her rolls are quicker and her air dodge is longer ?

only one i have absolutely no clue on is "05D - AttackLw3 - F252F718"

Catch = Grab, but I dunno what that added unk thing is.

Escape = Dodge, so I think they come out faster and her airdodge is indeed longer.

And AttackLw3 is her Dtilt. ~3 are usually Tilts and ~4 are usually Smashes, or at least from what I've seen thus far.

 

[lRasha]

I don't know what any of this means, but hopefully someone here can decipher the changes!
http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/palutena.html

It would be cool if someone can fully decipher this soon. I'm curious in wanting to test out the faster rolls and airdodges she gained.

 

[kmpyj]

So I did a little digging myself. I have both Patch 1.0.9 and Patch 1.1.0. I wanted test how early Palu can kill because I noticed I was getting really quick and early kills in FG. I tested both of the patches on Rob on Final Destination, and here is what I got so far.

Patch: 1.0.9: ----------------------------------------- Patch 1.1.0:

Fair kills at 226% ----------------------------------- Fair kills at 181%

FSmash(Base) kills at 86% ---------------------- FSmash(Base) kills at 78%

FSmash(Tip) kills at 111% ----------------------- FSmash(Tip) kills at 101%

USmash kills at 106% ----------------------------- USmash kills at 100%

DSmash(Base) kills at 115% -------------------- DSmash(Base) kills at 109%

DSmash(Tip) kills at 117% ----------------------- DSmash(Tip) kills at 108%

Bair kills at 138% ------------------------------------ Bair kills at 128%

Dair kills at 221% ------------------------------------ Dair kills at 211%

Uair kills at 118% ------------------------------------ Uair kills at 109%

UThrow kills at 200% ------------------------------- UThrow kills at 184%

DThrow(For Fun :D ) kills at 875% -------------- DThrow kills at 824%

Dash Attack kills at 165% ------------------------- Dash Attack kills at 153%

Things that weren't mentioned are: Tilts, Specials, Jab, FThrow, and BThrow. And remember, this data is reflected by Rob on Final Destination. Other characters/stages vary. That's all I have for now, besides what has been mentioned.

 

[Death Arcana]

Oh yep lol, bro I still remember our brawl set from Apex, that time out though lol. Your mix-ups were so good, I miss Pit :/ Palutena custom feels like Pit lol.

About to try out Palutena w/ the patch.

thanks man but you really got me in the end
i started strong and took the 1st game convincingly
but you adapted way faster then i did and clutched game 2
game 3 i think was your momentum the whole time
that time out was the most exciting time out i ever played lol
that pit up B thing you did was crazy

 

[kamus_aran]

Wow, Palutena got buffed a lot. So happy about this :x

 

[Masque]

So apparently they didn't make any changes to the function (i.e. intangibility) of her dodges, but the period of invisibility has changed (faster/shorter on spot/side dodges, slightly longer on air dodge).

 

[meleebrawler]

What I would give to have Roy's kill setups...

He doesn't really have kill setups at those percents, the closest thing is dthrow -> blazer but that can be DIed.
Rather those setups serve to put the enemies in a bad position where his mobility and falling speed can psych them out
and get them hit by one of his kill moves.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

So I did a little digging myself. I have both Patch 1.0.9 and Patch 1.1.0. I wanted test how early Palu can kill because I noticed I was getting really quick and early kills in FG. I tested both of the patches on Rob on Final Destination, and here is what I got so far.

Patch: 1.0.9: ----------------------------------------- Patch 1.1.0:

Fair kills at 226% ----------------------------------- Fair kills at 181%

FSmash(Base) kills at 86% ---------------------- FSmash(Base) kills at 78%

FSmash(Tip) kills at 111% ----------------------- FSmash(Tip) kills at 101%

USmash kills at 106% ----------------------------- USmash kills at 100%

DSmash(Base) kills at 115% -------------------- DSmash(Base) kills at 109%

DSmash(Tip) kills at 117% ----------------------- DSmash(Tip) kills at 108%

Bair kills at 138% ------------------------------------ Bair kills at 128%

Dair kills at 221% ------------------------------------ Dair kills at 211%

Uair kills at 118% ------------------------------------ Uair kills at 109%

UThrow kills at 200% ------------------------------- UThrow kills at 184%

DThrow(For Fun :D ) kills at 875% -------------- DThrow kills at 824%

Dash Attack kills at 165% ------------------------- Dash Attack kills at 153%

Things that weren't mentioned are: Tilts, Specials, Jab, FThrow, and BThrow. And remember, this data is reflected by Rob on Final Destination. Other characters/stages vary. That's all I have for now, besides what has been mentioned.

This is strange. If all those attacks got knock back buffs then why didn't it show up on dantarion's data rip? Hmm.


Also I was so hyped when i went into training mode, did fair, and immediately found a buff!

Looking at dantarion's data rip, holy crap we got so many buffs! Even if they are all small, this is awesome! Looking at the data is so much more fun than having the answers all figured out for you.


About the invisibility on dodges, it's cool they got some attention but I'm not sure if I prefer it this way (airdodge is completely a buff though). Her spotdodge/roll invisibility starts 3/1 frames earlier which is cool, but we do lose 9 frames for spotdodge, 3 for front roll, and 2 for back roll. Although I guess since it's the beginning of it that matters more, maybe this will end up helping (shave off just a little more of the already very short starting visible animation).

 

[kmpyj]

This is strange. If all those attacks got knock back buffs then why didn't it show up on dantarion's data rip? Hmm.


Also I was so hyped when i went into training mode, did fair, and immediately found a buff!

Looking at dantarion's data rip, holy crap we got so many buffs! Even if they are all small, this is awesome! Looking at the data is so much more fun than having the answers all figured out for you.


About the invisibility on dodges, it's cool they got some attention but I'm not sure if I prefer it this way (airdodge is completely a buff though). Her spotdodge/roll invisibility starts 3/1 frames earlier which is cool, but we do lose 9 frames for spotdodge, 3 for front roll, and 2 for back roll. Although I guess since it's the beginning of it that matters more, maybe this will end up helping (shave off just a little more of the already very short starting visible animation).

Yeah that is odd. I re-tested them a bunch of times before posting them. Got the same results on all. So unless it's just Rob........or maybe......

 

[BJN39]

So my B if I missed someone who already did this, but I can actually read some of the change thingy:

Ftilt
    frames 17-24 (hit 1)
        angle 361 -> 48
        kbg 100 -> 65
        size 3.8/2.5 -> 4.1/2.8
        re-hit rate 10F -> 0F (Does not re-hit)
    frames 25-39 (hit 2)   
        size 3.8/2.5 -> 4.1/2.8
        re-hit rate 10F -> 0F (Does not re-hit)

Dtilt
        size 2.4/1.9 -> 2.7/2.1 

NAir
    all looping hitboxes
        size all 3.0 -> all 3.4

FAir
        damage 7.0 -> 8.0

All Grabs
        unknown parameter altered (If her grabs really are faster to end, this shouldn't be the data saying so, though)

The changes to Ftilt make it a 2 hit move instead of 3 hits, the KB and angle for the first 8 frames is also different, allowing both hits to connect, and making it do a range of damages of 8%, 10% or 12% depending on whether the 6% or 4% hitbox connects.

Dtilt and NAir got size increases, I can't read Dtilt's, it doesn't seem to have been fully deciphered. Edit : I found a source that has the size numbers. FAir obviously got a damage increase. Grabs got a parameter and an unknown added, whose meanings are currently unknown to me.

These particular changelists don't cover certain specials, so I cannot provide any potential changes to Autoreticle, Explosive Flame, or Celestial Firework, as they're in different, unchecked by this, files.