Mindgames

[NES n00b]

Falcon also needs alot but I'd agrue his tech chasing is as much reaction as it is prediction at the top levels of play.

This might mean nothing coming from me since I am not top level, but my tech chasing is based around option cancelling which is based on part prediction of what "group" of techs I think he is going to use of which i then react to what he does (note that if he doesn't actually go into the group of techs that I "cancelled" it is either a. too hard to react or b. impossible to actually chase it) and then the other part is just pure prediction or manipulation so I can have a higher reward than a grab.

If falcon needs lots of mindgames, does that mean i r have teh mindgamez? (No one answer this rhetorical question the answer is obviously no)

 

[t3h stock slayer]

Wtf are you talking about?

Its ****loads easier to beat a Marth that presses buttons randomly because he's so laggy compared to all the other broken characters.

Namely, SHEEEEEIK. You press any button in succession while in close proximity to your opponent and it registers as a combo.

Fox and Falco have a really high learning curve...but once you PRACTICE pressing buttons fast and are good at pressing buttons in general all you have to do is press those buttons to win.

Just look at Silent Wolf. -_-

bernie i was joking XD
lmfao,
i just love expressing my hate for marth >___>

 

[Brainjack]

raynex awesome post exactly the kind of stuff I had in mind when starting thisthread, nice to finally see some good posts!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Raynex loves the dynasty

 

[IrArby]

IMO were over exaggerating Falcon's priority problems (slightly not majorly or anything). My reasoning being this: Ken, M2K, and probably though I never heard of him saying it, Isai consider Falcon a Marth counter on stage. One would think that those pro smashers wouldn't consider him a Marth counter if he could only have the advantage on Marth with better mindgames.

By defintion, assuming the tier gap between you and your opponents chars isn't to great, the one with the better mindgames wins. Those pros obviously took it for granted that the persons playing this theoritcial matchup would be of near or equal skill. This sounds very confusing but my point is they're not saying Falcon counters Marth if Falcon has better mindgames. They're saying on-stage, Falcon counters Marth with equal amounts of mindgames on both sides. I'm sure they took Falcon's priority into account before saying something like that.

Also, early we assumed that chars with more lag in general need alot of mindgames and between Falcon and Marth, Marth definetly lags alot more.

I hope that made sense.

 

[RaynEX]

Raynex loves the dynasty

Chyea.

IrArby: I can't agree with people who try to argue that Falcon doesn't have bad priority.

I think the overexaggeration is justified. Have you seen Cactuar vs. Darkrain match 4, from Event 52? Spam Fox's nair and it beats Falcon as a character. Priority means so much in this game.

Mindgames though...unforunetly you can't practice when it comes to that. It mostly comes with experience, and an overall knowledge of the game. Player tendencies, pattern reads, predictions...

 

[IrArby]

Sorry I should have clarified. Since everyone seemed to be pitting Marth Vs. Falcon as the character who need the most mind games I went ahead and evaluated that particular mathcup based on what knowledge I have.
I really do agree with you in the case of Fox vs. Falcon. High mobility + high priority really poses a huge problem for him. Marth doesn't have the mobility Fox has though which was the specific matchup I referred to.

Believe me I totally agree with you that Falcon has aweful priority.

 

[replicate]

mindgames is such a horrible term

you probably have to play the smartest with low tiers because they have the least advantage as characters

 

[Binx]

got any vids?

.....lol not that i dont believe you or anything i'm just really interested in seeing this.

I don't but you'll see M2K do it hear and there if you watch enough vids of him playing against Falco, he does it in one of the recent shiz vids, the difference is that my friend is just really good at it, although if I used the lasers less predictably he wouldn't be able to shield with the right timing as easily. He is just plain better than I am at the moment. I do a lot better with Fox though because I have more experience as fox, I have a lot easier time controlling him, I was mostly just demonstrating that all characters need mindgames, the more options your character has the less predictable you become and therefor the better your opponents mindgames have to be to predict you, but I think AS a character you don't have mindgames it's vs a character, most of the game is just being careful and not making mistakes, especially at a high level.

 

[Pink Reaper]

mindgames is such a horrible term

you probably have to play the smartest with low tiers because they have the least advantage as characters

Not really, you just have to space better and pay more attention while looking for openings.


Spacing >>>>>>> Mindgames

Spoiler

>>>>>>>>>>>>Brawl

 

[Aiko]

you don't need mindgames for falcon, you need to be able to kill somone if they make a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes, so you dont need mindgames to "Force" your opponent to make a mistake.

erm, "forcing" your opponent to make a mistake is mindgames. You just contradicted yourself for epic lose.

 

[ZeroFox]

Mindgames are not character specific.
You should play mindgames no matter who you are.

This. You should use mindgames throughout the match regardless of character.

 

[Mew2King]

mindgames is you space a move on their shield near the edge and you turn around and chillindude829 rolls behind Azen toward the center of the stage

it's such a fun trick to copy. Even funnier if you turn around before they roll, just to embarass them

 

[Brainjack]

um....huh? lolz

 

[RaynEX]

Roll predictions.

Its sort of like techchasing cept cooler. Hit their shield, turn around and wait for them to roll into your arms. He's basically trying to say that chillen is predictable.

 

[Stratford]

So essentially buffered ****?

 

[Parker1006]

In terms of individual characters, I would say that Bowser and Mewtwo need the most mindgames to win. Alot of their tactics seems to revolve around reading and deceiving opponents. I also think that the OP needs to lay off on the cursing and the spam posts. It kindof takes the fun out of a potentially good thread.

 

[Brainjack]

mindgames is you space a move on their shield near the edge and you turn around and chillindude829 rolls behind Azen toward the center of the stage

it's such a fun trick to copy. Even funnier if you turn around before they roll, just to embarass them

oh, finally got it after raynex's explanation.....but

isn't this like the oldest mindgame ever (not detracting from it's amazingness of course)

 

[JonaDiaper]

isnt that kens mindgame i mean didnt he do it first? down throw, dtilt incase they tech in place or away then turn to the other side and grab again, down throw repeat

 

[Brainjack]

um....that's not exactly what we're talking about i dont think....but i think i've seen m2k do that more than ken, dunno though, you might be right......


edit: hey jonadiaper, i just saw your location, ever play with pc?

 

[JonaDiaper]

um....that's not exactly what we're talking about i dont think....but i think i've seen m2k do that more than ken, dunno though, you might be right......


edit: hey jonadiaper, i just saw your location, ever play with pc?

dam i wish. ive talked to him a few times, met him in person in a bathroom lol i was like HEY YOUR PC, he was like....hi? and so yea never played him tho. i might get him one day. im sure hes too busy tho, work school all that.

 

[br4n]

this thread is really stupid.

 

[Brainjack]

thanks for the input br4n


but jona hahahah that's so funny, meetingh im at a bathroom.....awkward hahaha

 

[BrawlLover]

tech skill first, then be smart and have good strategies

 

[IrArby]

The perfect strategy downthrow thing against (mainly) fox is a M2K original or at least he popularized it first. I have a quote on my PC at home by either Cort or Cactuar (Cort I think but...) saying how they lifted this trick from M2K, enough said. I'm also positive he does it in at least one of his mathches against PC in the Evo East 2k7 finals.

I'm pretty sure I've seen him do this thing where he'll upthrow them during a chaingrab and wavedash back > jab them just b4 they land. I'm actually convinced M2K and Cactuar both have a lot of odd things they do which they don't really tell people about. Its scary. Watch M2K or Cactuar vs. a Falco for example and they usually let the first approaching laser hit, reflect the second one, and **** them using the lag time.

 

[BrawlLover]

irarby, get a chance, and come up here and play m2k

 

[IrArby]

I would love to actually. I'm sure thered be so much going on that I would understand even less than what I grasp from his recorded matches which still feels pretty minimal to me. Also, to clarify the earlier post I should've said they do a lot of odd things that they don't tell people about that no one else does. Thats just as important.

You make a great point though Master LOLz. One time M2K posted saying he had all this really great stuff that people haven't even seen (or at least understood) and I'm pretty sure I'll never get to see any of it unless I get good enough to play him.

I gotta stop talking right now cause I'm turning into the biggest M2K fanboy.

 

[BrawlLover]

atleast you are a fanboy of the best, to be honest, there's nothing better to strive for to be/beat than the best if you are taking this game competitively which i am not, but i do enjoy the competitiveness of it, which is why i learned to play this game with m2k, it would be extremely helpful for you to play me first, i am m2k divided by 7, basically, he's me but exactly EXACTLY! 7 times better, i know most everything about this game, however, i can't do everything i know, but i can tell you why he did what he did in every moment of the game playing you

come up here, i'll house you, he lives like 25 minutes away, i'll take you to play him and see just how good this game can be : ), oh and constantly make fun of him about how much he blows while you play him, he loooooves that

 

[Stratford]

im sure hes too busy tho, work school all that.

Sounds like a JOHN.

 

[IrArby]

@LOL Lover I mean Brawl Master. If I drop out of school and get a real job that sends me to nightschool for free, I'll definetly come some random weekend. I'm leaning towards doing that since I no longer have any desire to be a Business, Music, or Psyc major. Its all bs.

Anyway, who in their right mind would turn down an offer like that.

 

[BrawlLover]

lulz, yeah consider Rowan University as one of your choices for college if you wanna do electrical/computer or chemical engineering, it's top 5 in us : ), that's what im doing, it's ****, but hey, once you make it through, it's all gooods

 

[JonaDiaper]

Sounds like a JOHN.

on his part, yea it is.

i have time on weekends to play but hes all

either at work or tired or napping or hungover

 

[Stratford]

Yea Jona I meant on his part. I've devised an elaborate plan to get him to play you though. You challenge him to defend his title as King of Port Chester. If he doesn't show, you get to start using the name PC. It's win-win.

 

[JonaDiaper]

lololololololololololol

thats actually a good idea.

its kinda being a total ***hole but still

good idea. ima try it.

PCJona FTW

 

[Brainjack]

hahahahha PCJona that's awesome, everyone in port chester should permanently and legally add a PC in front of their first name.

 

[BrawlLover]

PC Hannah Montana

 

[LieutenantSerg]

PC Hannah Montana

I would of never known.

 

[BrawlLover]

yeah i didn't know till like now

 

[Stratford]

She'd get my respect.

 

[BrawlLover]

oh definitely, im certain there are others that need our respect, till then, we'll just have to settle with PC Hannah Montana