Meta Mii Gunner Competitive Discussion Thread

[NintendoParty]

https://discord.gg/hUQUYX sorry I'm new to discord and didn't know I could just send a link from within the app. There is tons of info and resources there

 

[varkarrus]

Link's dead

 

[NintendoParty]

find it on smashcords. Don't know how else to link it

 

[hobiew2000]

Here is the link for all Smash Ultimate discords, including ones for local scenes, characters, and such: https://smashcords.com/smash-5

 

[SiO2]

I really do not like going up against Pokemon Trainer, especially Squirtle. That little turtle's entire kit feels like a hard counter, and you have to get lucky to get a hit in at all.

 

[hobiew2000]

I agree completely, small characters like Squirtle and Pichu as well as swordies have a really good m/u against us

 

[SiO2]

I agree completely, small characters like Squirtle and Pichu as well as swordies have a really good m/u against us

Depends on the swordie. The Links are particularly bothersome due to their own projectiles, but the Fire Emblem swordies aren't terrible. Cloud isn't too bad either as long as you don't let him juggle you.

 

[NintendoParty]

go to smashcords and find it there.

Find it at smashcords. Don't know how to link the actual discord

 

[SiO2]

Let's talk stage selection.

I'm of the mind that Pokemon Stadium 1/2 are terrible for us. The stage is gigantic which makes it harder for us to kill and harder for us to cover as much of the stage as we need. The two platforms are too far from the ledge, which makes it more difficult for us to mix up our recovery (which is important to prevent our recovery from being predictable). No middle platform means no sharking with Uair.

I'm also not a FD fan due to the lack of platforms.

Stages that are good for us are stages with bi- or tri-plats where the platforms are close enough to the ledge that we can use them for recovery mix-up, but also far enough away from the ledge where we can cover both the platform and the stage simultaneously when edge-guarding. These include Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, Lylat Cruise, Unova Pokemon League, and Warioware. Other stages with platforms can help us offensively and defensively, but not nearly as effectively as these five.

 

[NintendoParty]

I disagree. I find Omega (and FD) to be much better because opponent has no where to hide from projectiles. Gunner is not a character that thrives in the air. We are very slow and get hunted in the air. I use AR and never had issues with recovery.

 

[BiG_GiNg]

So I've been playing around with allot of options for Mii Gunner and I'm getting a lot of mileage out of 3311 and 3312. The gernade launcher works great for stuff lower recoveries off board. The misslle seems to put out a nice hitbox in front of u. I like the reflector a little bit more, but allot of matchups it's not needed so I started using the number 2 down b. I think I like the amount of projectiles u can put out with the grenade and misses allot more than the ball of the first netural b

 

[NintendoParty]

So I've been playing around with allot of options for Mii Gunner and I'm getting a lot of mileage out of 3311 and 3312. The gernade launcher works great for stuff lower recoveries off board. The misslle seems to put out a nice hitbox in front of u. I like the reflector a little bit more, but allot of matchups it's not needed so I started using the number 2 down b. I think I like the amount of projectiles u can put out with the grenade and misses allot more than the ball of the first netural b

I like your thought process and came to a similar decision with 3332. I tried 1332 but gunner's biggest weakness is rushdown characters and speed in general. It feels difficult to find time to charge, and that time can be used better imo. It is also somewhat redundant of missles that cover the same horizontal space. I personally think I kill more often and earlier with nades anyway. Btw, here's a video of how I use nades, and yes I know it looks lame, but it works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCrXRfZ0QO4

 

[Naggy]

Can't believe no one on here is repping the laser neutral special. It's not about combos and damage, it's for positional pressure and stage control. Everything else gunner has relies on your opponent approaching or occupying a certain range but laser punishes them for retreating away from that range. It jab locks for 3 hits as well which is decent free damage. I use 2131 currently. Characters that can force an approach in this game are really strong and that strategy is underrepresented in the mii gunner forum.

Use laser to stun movement based characters and keep them honest or to stop charge attacks and punish retreats. Flame pillar works as additional close range stage control and can lead into more lasers or allow gunner to reposition with jumps or press the offensive if they expect you to keep shooting lasers. So many of his options force shield and his fsmash does enough shield damage to poke during the end hits. Reflector is just good period especially considering this is arguably the most projectile heavy meta in a smash bros game to date and it has the added bonus of having a hitbox that comes out very fast and resets neutral. Rocket arms are my recovery of choice because it's so versatile when combined with Gunner's kit. You're basically always forcing the opponent into a disadvantage state and locking down their movement. As soon as they hesitate, you can reposition to a platform to continue the pressure from a better position and keep them guessing.

Has anyone mentioned the falling up air drag down properties yet? it's especially potent on battlefield because you can follow up with up tilt, jump, and fast fall drag them down into another uptilt that will either kill or will combo into up air off the top.

 

[Rhys]

I’ve tried a couple drag-down set-ups but a lot of the time I get hit by my opponent’s attacks before I can follow up. Not sure if I’m not fast enough or they’re not real setups

I like the idea of platform dragdowns because utilt does shark, I’ll try that a bit more

 

[Lorisaur]

So I've been playing around with allot of options for Mii Gunner and I'm getting a lot of mileage out of 3311 and 3312. The gernade launcher works great for stuff lower recoveries off board. The misslle seems to put out a nice hitbox in front of u. I like the reflector a little bit more, but allot of matchups it's not needed so I started using the number 2 down b. I think I like the amount of projectiles u can put out with the grenade and misses allot more than the ball of the first netural b

Agree. Why so few players main this character? It's ridiculously fun to play. Currently playing 3312, I've picked up the character just few days ago and it's incredible, especially if you think how he did in smash 4. I really belive that more people should play gunner... speaking of moves, I really love using samus bomb in neutral and it can mess up soooo many characters. For the neutral, it's sad to say goodbye to the charge blast but the granade launcher is incredible if you are good at aiming it. As for the recovery... i was thinking about changing it to 3, but then I clutched out a couple games gimping offstage people with the hitbox so... I'll keep it. I'm currently maining the Samuses, but Mii Gunner can really become my favorite chatacter in no time

 

[BiG_GiNg]

I like your thought process and came to a similar decision with 3332. I tried 1332 but gunner's biggest weakness is rushdown characters and speed in general. It feels difficult to find time to charge, and that time can be used better imo. It is also somewhat redundant of missles that cover the same horizontal space. I personally think I kill more often and earlier with nades anyway. Btw, here's a video of how I use nades, and yes I know it looks lame, but it works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCrXRfZ0QO4

See you say it looks lame, but that is the most effective way I have found to use it. The fact that it can 2 frame and stay out long enough if they just hang on the ledge to long is amazing to me. As far as rush down characters. I agree this set up gives u some nice space and putting that misslle hit box just in front of u get allot of the space u need to work. I wasn't really a huge fan of the 3 upb though. That hit box on the 1 up b has saved me way more then needing the angles of the 3 recovery.

Agree. Why so few players main this character? It's ridiculously fun to play. Currently playing 3312, I've picked up the character just few days ago and it's incredible, especially if you think how he did in smash 4. I really belive that more people should play gunner... speaking of moves, I really love using samus bomb in neutral and it can mess up soooo many characters. For the neutral, it's sad to say goodbye to the charge blast but the granade launcher is incredible if you are good at aiming it. As for the recovery... i was thinking about changing it to 3, but then I clutched out a couple games gimping offstage people with the hitbox so... I'll keep it. I'm currently maining the Samuses, but Mii Gunner can really become my favorite chatacter in no time

Yeah the 3 upb is good for certain angles but man I've had way more success in 1 saving my ass from someone trying to come off board at me

 

[SecretAsianMan]

Can't believe no one on here is repping the laser neutral special. It's not about combos and damage, it's for positional pressure and stage control. Everything else gunner has relies on your opponent approaching or occupying a certain range but laser punishes them for retreating away from that range. It jab locks for 3 hits as well which is decent free damage. I use 2131 currently. Characters that can force an approach in this game are really strong and that strategy is underrepresented in the mii gunner forum.

Use laser to stun movement based characters and keep them honest or to stop charge attacks and punish retreats. Flame pillar works as additional close range stage control and can lead into more lasers or allow gunner to reposition with jumps or press the offensive if they expect you to keep shooting lasers. So many of his options force shield and his fsmash does enough shield damage to poke during the end hits. Reflector is just good period especially considering this is arguably the most projectile heavy meta in a smash bros game to date and it has the added bonus of having a hitbox that comes out very fast and resets neutral. Rocket arms are my recovery of choice because it's so versatile when combined with Gunner's kit. You're basically always forcing the opponent into a disadvantage state and locking down their movement. As soon as they hesitate, you can reposition to a platform to continue the pressure from a better position and keep them guessing.

Has anyone mentioned the falling up air drag down properties yet? it's especially potent on battlefield because you can follow up with up tilt, jump, and fast fall drag them down into another uptilt that will either kill or will combo into up air off the top.

I agree. The Lasers are super underrated. Sure the other two options are a fast tactical nuke and easy edge guarding but the lasers help a lot with rushdown characters like swordies, falcon and the pokemons. It helped me a lot with the Ike matchup because spamming lasers while he uses up-b is an easy gimp, and he can't just run in with a nair or fair. Also lasers practically deny shulk and Ganon, and really messes with the Climbers. It also forces spammy characters like Wolf or bad Zeldas to opt for reflectors instead of using their projectiles because of the pressure your laser provides. Its a safer intercontinental poking tool than the samus missiles, so it allows you to drop them and use flame pillar instead.
Combine this with easy gundash retreats and maintaining space and you can rack up a huge amount of chip damage with the green laser.
The only downside to the lasers is the worse Earthbound boys and GnW machup.

 

[Voe]

I've been the most comfortable with using 1312, but I do want to mess around with the Laser and Grenade to see if I'll have the most success with one of them.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I've picked up Mii Gunner recently and they're such a fun and surprisingly stylish character to play, missiles are so strong and satisfying, they feel like how Samus should play which is hilarious and ironic (though i still play Dark Samus cause those animations), and costumes are pretty good too.

 

[RawKTTV]

3312 is doing me wonders right now online. The edgeguard with grenade launcher is too good. The missile and bomb drop zoning and anti air with utilt is great. the amount of shielding the opponent does allows for a lot grab mixups. I feel like this variation is tournament viable once you get the spacing and anti airs down.

 

[Atem]

It looks like Arm rocket is overrated. I mean if it was faster but it looks so punishable. I personally think the best custom move is Bomb Drop because it makes Mii Gunner so much more agresive and helps so much on the ledge.

I personally think 1312 is the best

 

[RawKTTV]

Finally got Mii Gunner to Elite Smash I'm around 4mil GSP. here's a match of me playing against a link with the 3312 set I made some mistakes but you can see the potential of this setup https://youtu.be/dF7CKCGeOS0

 

[ZBOYFLESH]

Been running standard 1111. I too like charge shot and flame pillar a lot. Reflector (Down1) has a lot of overall utility, especially against the Belmonts and . Occasionally you can catch other characters by surprise.

Personally I found Lunar Launcher (Up1) to be the best compromise between recovery and attacking. I found Arm Rocket (up3) difficult to get the trajectory right on.

I use arm rocket because of the utility. It's good for being unpredictable and allows you to dash across the stage and getting in a side special pretty easily. It's also great for when you got a kill, and let's you get away like Sonic, sliding head first into the ground.

Let's talk stage selection.

I'm of the mind that Pokemon Stadium 1/2 are terrible for us. The stage is gigantic which makes it harder for us to kill and harder for us to cover as much of the stage as we need. The two platforms are too far from the ledge, which makes it more difficult for us to mix up our recovery (which is important to prevent our recovery from being predictable). No middle platform means no sharking with Uair.

I'm also not a FD fan due to the lack of platforms.

Stages that are good for us are stages with bi- or tri-plats where the platforms are close enough to the ledge that we can use them for recovery mix-up, but also far enough away from the ledge where we can cover both the platform and the stage simultaneously when edge-guarding. These include Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, Lylat Cruise, Unova Pokemon League, and Warioware. Other stages with platforms can help us offensively and defensively, but not nearly as effectively as these five.

I suggest arm rocket recovery and reflect to stall mid air and the fly to stage. It's also good to dash across the stage like a sonic with a little arch that helps it dodge most projectiles. Great for gaining some distance for most fighters as well.

 

[Djmarcus44]

I use arm rocket because of the utility. It's good for being unpredictable and allows you to dash across the stage and getting in a side special pretty easily. It's also great for when you got a kill, and let's you get away like Sonic, sliding head first into the ground.


I suggest arm rocket recovery and reflect to stall mid air and the fly to stage. It's also good to dash across the stage like a sonic with a little arch that helps it dodge most projectiles. Great for gaining some distance for most fighters as well.

I also use arm rocket, but I wouldn't recommend using the up b for movement. The move doesn't have a hitbox, Gunner can't perform any actions out of it, and Gunner has endlag after the move. Gunner would be better off dash dancing or using projectiles in those situations.

 

[NintendoParty]

Here's a guide that discusses Mii Gunner's best specials and movesets. https://shimigames.com/mii-gunners-best-special-moves-movesets/
Recommendations are 1332 and 3332, but the article discusses all the specials

 

[Djmarcus44]

This video goes over an active hop, which is very important for Gunner's throw combos. You use an active hop to maxmize the percent range of Gunner's throw combos, and it allows Gunner to use fresh up throw to up air as a kill setup on most of the cast. I have also updated the combo thread with some more information about bomb drop. That move has incredible combo potential when spaced properly.
https://youtu.be/GSsz7CJd7Uo

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Get ready for all the up-coming Gunner mains, you all might be seeing some traffic.

 

[Djmarcus44]

I have heard that our discord has grown by about 1000 members.

 

[SecretAsianMan]

its grown by 1500 members

 

[daddypeach]

I have been loving 2331 with Gunner. I just picked him up and it was the fastest I got into elite smash since Palutena.

The combo of lasers, missiles, and reflector is very strong for camping and preventing other characters from camping you. You can get a 3 hit combo from smash missile into 2 rapid shots for very good damage. Laser is very strong for interrupting moves such as hero's down b and any move that requires charging up. The laser and missile together are a great way to take control of the ground game and gives plenty of opportunities for up air or forward smash kills.

Does anyone else like this setup? I see a lot of rationale on the boards that would look at lasers and missiles as a redundant combo, but it beefs up gunner's camping game so good and makes winning neutral so easy sometimes compared to the other setups I've tried.

I'm still experimenting with the more trap oriented setups, but I really like this one so far. I'm not a huge lover of the charge shot tbh.

 

[AEMehr]

It's dependent on how you wanna roll with the character.

I take solace in reading movement options and placing a charge blast in their path, so I'd rather be rewarded with a stock instead of like 7% y'know? Haha.

But I can definitely imagine it being a very good counter-zoning moveset and probably really annoying to fight, which will test a zonebreaker's patience.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Well...

 

[Young MSC]

I've been playing Mii Gunner a whole lot, and I think we need a seperate thread for each type of Mii, so here it is.

Here's some stuff I've found involving which specials to choose:

Spoiler: special move stuff

The fox/falco-blaster neutral b (neutral 2) is pretty awful from what I've experienced so far. It's a halfway point between fox and falco, but unfortunately it takes the worst parts of both. Pretty slow, but deals no knockback. It has a slight windbox sorta thing, and it deal decent damage, but it's overall not worth it at all. The only way I could see it being useful is against slow characters you can stay safely away from.

The other two neutral B's are pretty good, but charge shot (neutral 1) is easily the best as far as I can tell. The grenade launcher (neutral 3) is much slower than in 4, but you can't charge it to make mixups at all, so it's overall a pretty weak option. It might be good if you have stealth burst, since it would really be your only option for a zoning tool. Charge shot is the all-around best choice. Charge shot is great at breaking shields (especially paired with missiles) and is generally a good kill option.

As for Side B, Stealth Burst (side 2) is bad for zoning, but similarly to Zelda's side b, it's a pretty good kill option. It can't be reflected back at you, which can be useful against anyone with a reflector. It's decent, but charge shot is usually better for getting kills, and it leaves you pretty defenseless. It also has much less range and control than Zelda's side b, you can't angle it upward or downward. It's kinda useless most of the time.

Flame Pillar (side 1) was something a lot of people were excited for, because of combo potential, but it's not nearly as good as Robin's arc-fire like most of us were hoping. It's still a very good move if you hit it. Very good option for matchups where your opponent has a good ground game and/or bad jump.

Gunner Missile (side 3) seems like the best one, it's strong, fast, and has no huge downsides. It has basically no endlag at all, which is fantastic. It's similar to Samus' missiles, but faster and stronger(?) and great for zoning out your opponent. It can also get some cheeky shield breaks really easily combined with charge shot. The two projectiles end up right next to each other, and the opponent has too much shieldstun to avoid a shieldbreak by dodging. There's no REAL downsides I can find, other than the homing missiles being garbage.

All three Down B's are equally good, they really just depend on the matchup. Reflector (Down 1) for characters like K Rool/Belmonts, or really anyone with a strong projectile or two. Vortex (down 3) is basically the same thing as PSI magnet, and is great against characters with weak projectiles or energy based projectiles, like the mother boys and metroid girls, etc. It has a hitbox, but I'm not sure how useful it is. Bomb Drop (down 2) is a great choice for an extra, closer range zoning tool, but I'd personally only use it against characters without projectiles, or with projectiles that can't really be predicted/reacted to.

As for Up B, I haven't really used much other than Arm Rocket (up 3), which is easily the best for recovering. The other two are worse for recovery, but they have hitboxes. Lunar Launch (Up 1) shoots downward, and Cannon Jump Kick (Up 2) has a hitbox on the way up. Gunner has a lot of good options for killing and zoning outside of these, so I think the best one is arm rocket, simply because it's the best move for recovering. The jump kick might be good if people try to spike you while you recover, but arm rocket moves so fast it's not likely. Also, uncharged up-smash kills earlier than jump kick, making it even less useful as a kill option. It's pretty flashy though.

TL;DR:
Don't bother with Neutral 2, Down-B is matchup dependent, all 3 side specials are good.
If you go with Side 2, pick neutral 3 or down 2 or both. You probably shouldn't use side 2 though.
Up B 3 is best for recovery, Up B 1/2 are worse for recovery, but have niche uses for damage.
The best sets are 133X and 113X.
If you're a TO reading this, having these sets already on your setups is a good idea. 1331, 1332, and 1333 are the most important.

If you have 13XX, there's a really good shield break combo. A smash-side-b (non-homing missile) immediately followed by a fully charged charge shot will break a shield, and the opponent can't parry or escape after getting hit by the missile. If their shield is 100% fresh when hitting them with this, it might not entirely break it, and if their shield is fairly weak, the charge shot might shield poke. Either way, your opponent will be in a very bad spot if they try to shield a missile.

When you get a shield break, charging neutral b and then using down smash is usually the best choice, but depending on the height of the blastzones and their position on the stage, up smash may be better. Side smash is a decent choice, but it has slightly less knockback and will probably be stale if you use it a lot in the neutral.

Spoiler: Mii Gunner Gameplan

-Use shorthop (SH) fair when the opponent is close to you, and spam missiles when they're farther away.
-Charge neutral B at every opportunity when the opponent can't challenge it.
-If you suspect the opponent will shield a missile, immediately send out your charged shot for the shield break. Don't worry about holding onto it.
-When they approach, Nair OoS is the fastest/safest option, and FSmash is a great way to punish somewhat laggy moves from a reasonable distance.
-Mii Gunner is, obviously, a zoning character. The farther away your opponent is, the better.
-For shorter characters, SH Fair will likely miss, so rely more on Nair, and consider taking Down B 2 to keep them away.
-None of Gunner's grabs are kill throws, so go for the throw that is best for positioning, or try down throw for some follow-ups.

When to use what Down-Special:
-Reflector (1) is the all-around most general choice. If you don't know what you're about to fight, pick this.
-Otherwise, reflector is great against any character who could possibly out-zone you, or has difficult to deal with projectiles.
-Notable characters for Reflector are the Belmonts, King K. Rool, Duck Hunt, Links, Olimar, Villager, Inkling, and Greninja.
-It has uses against other projectile characters, but most of them are better done with Vortex.

-Vortex (3) is the best choice against anyone with energy-based projectiles, or explosions.
-Basically, if they have a move you can heal from with Vortex, DEFINITELY pick Vortex.
-Using this can make your opponent afraid to ever use any attack you can absorb, crippling most of their set.
-Make sure you know what you can and can't absorb. You can't absorb water shuriken.
-Notable characters for Vortex are Samus, Pit, Snake, Ridley, Robin, Mega Man, Ness, and Lucas.
-Certain characters get absolutely invalidated just by having this special move, particularly Snake and Mega Man who have extremely limited options against you with this.

-Bomb Drop (2) is the best choice for any matchup where the opponent doesn't have a prominent projectile, or any character who relies on ground movement.
-Bomb Drop is also a good choice against small, hard to hit characters.
-As an extra zoning tool, it's important to not overuse it, or use it when they're close enough to punish you.
-Notable characters for Bomb Drop are Little Mac, Incineroar, Sonic, Mii Brawler, Every single swordy in the game sans Cloud, etc.

Certain characters can be difficult to choose what down b to use, here's some info about a few of them.

-For Pokemon trainer, Bomb Drop is best against Squirtle, Reflector is best against Ivysaur, and Vortex is best against Charizard. Generally, Pokemon trainer mains will tend to have one character of the three they use most, so figure out who that is and adjust accordingly. For scouting purposes, Bomb Drop is usually your best bet. Squirtle is easily the most dangerous of the three to Gunner.

-For Diddy Kong, Princess Peach/Daisy, and a few other similar characters, their projectile may be annoying to deal with, but reflecting generally isn't going to be the best choice. Bananas/Turnips are too fast to react to, so having bomb drop will help a lot more.

-For Snake and Mega Man, you might be tempted to pick reflector, but absolutely pick Vortex. Mega Man's neutral b can't be countered with it, but the ability to heal from about half of your opponent's moveset is way too powerful to ignore. Snake's Down B can't be reflected, but it can be absorbed. His forward smash can also be absorbed, which heals for an inordinate amount.

(This post will be edited with more combos/setups/kill confirms/etc once they are found)

Thread needs some serious updating. Top Gunners run 3332 and 3232 now.

 

[AEMehr]

Thread needs some serious updating. Top Gunners run 3332 and 3232 now.

Who in the world are you referring to?

3232? Iunno anyone using that.

 

[Djmarcus44]

Who in the world are you referring to?

3232? Iunno anyone using that.

Deon uses that moveset. He is the the best Gunner in the UK, and he has taken a set off of Mr. R.

 

[SecretAsianMan]

whoa i didnt know nerai used smashboards

 

[Yokta]

Does anyone here use a Spyro Mii for their Gunner?

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Dang, why does Gunner keep getting all the super hype Mii Costumes...

 

[Djmarcus44]

Dang, why does Gunner keep getting all the super hype Mii Costumes...

I like to think that it is an attempt to make people realize that Gunner is actually a good character.

 

[cmbsfm]

Looks like Vault Boy is an excuse for me to try and pick up gunner again