Mii Brawler Competitive Discussion Thread

PokéfreakofBACON

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I don't play Brawler as much as I do Gunner, but the lack of thread for Brawler said someone's gotta make it.

Neutral B is a no-brainer. Shot-put (neutral 1) is the only option for a projectile this character has. The other two options are not bad by any means at all, but a projectile is just so useful it's not worth giving up unless you just wanna style on your opponent. Without Shot-put, you just lose neutral against zoners.

Side B has three good options. Burning Dropkick (side 2) is the best option for horizontal recovery. The other two are also useful for recovery, but are mainly good for offensive uses. Suplex (side 3) is a command grab similar to Incineroar's side b, except it also has an option to take your opponent with you to the blastzone. Onslaught (side 1) doesn't go through shields, but is more powerful if it hits. There's also an increased rage effect with this move, I'm not entirely sure how it works. Burning Dropkick is probably the best overall, as it still has good offensive capability despite mainly being a recovery move.

For up B, helicopter kick (up 2) isn't anywhere near as good as it was in 4, so it's probably a better choice to go for a good recovery move. The other 2 specials are pretty much equal in terms of height gained, but Thrust Uppercut (up 3) gets a little more horizontal distance, and has a safer hitbox for discouraging edgeguards. It also seems to have a better kill potential than Soaring Axe Kick (up 1), so it seems like it's the objectively best choice, unless I'm missing something. It also true combos out of down throw, like mario's up b, as well as just being a good combo finisher in general.

For Down B, feint jump (down 2) is just awful. It's decent for recovery, but not much else. The other two options have completely different uses, and are both good. Counter throw (down 3) is a weird counter that doesn't work unless your opponent is close to you when they hit you, but otherwise is a good counter. Head-On Assault (down 1) is great for landing, and can be used when you have the stock lead to catch getup option from ledge and get a kill. I'd say head-on assault is just a little better than counter throw, but the option is mainly up to whether you'd rather be able to land a little more easily, or have a subpar counter.

TL;DR:
Shot-put is the only neutral b worth using seriously.
Burning Dropkick is usually the best side B.
Thrust uppercut is objectively the best up b. (probably)
Don't use feint jump.
The best sets are 1231 and 1233.

(This post will be edited with more combos/kill setups/etc. when they are found.)
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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This post is reserved for brawler's frame data. If you have it or can get it, PM me.
 

Crimson Zach

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I like 1312 on my Brawlers. Shot Put is obvious, I like onslaught but its so bad if they shield it and the suplex does tons of damage. Axe Kick is just my personal preference and Feint Jump is for horizontal recovery
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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I like 1312 on my Brawlers. Shot Put is obvious, I like onslaught but its so bad if they shield it and the suplex does tons of damage. Axe Kick is just my personal preference and Feint Jump is for horizontal recovery
A horizontal recovery option is definitely necessary if you're using axe kick, so I don't blame you. I do think dropkick is a better option for recovery though, cause it lets you take one of the other down-b's.
 

Crimson Zach

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A horizontal recovery option is definitely necessary if you're using axe kick, so I don't blame you. I do think dropkick is a better option for recovery though, cause it lets you take one of the other down-b's.
Id use drop kick but I like running suplex to help approach on shield and for when people try to shield on platforms to stop the up air chaining its a good aerial command grab. Its not going to kill like Incineroar's or Bowser's command grabs but its still a good punish tool where if you land a few you can set up kills
 

ArticulateT

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Honestly, I've been having some level of success with 3123, and it plays rather comfortable from my own experiences, and am currently testing 3323. I'll do my best to explain why I didn't take Shotput.

While I understand the advantage of a projectile, the actual range of it kinda makes it disappointing for me. It comes out fast enough, and doesn't hamper mobility in the air, but the amount of time stuck in the animation while the ball is in motion means characters that excel with speed and close combat could exploit it, especially considering the relatively short range of the projectile (about 4-5 grids while grounded, which is the distance of some dash attacks or travelling side specials). I used to use Flashing Mach Punch, but found that Onslaught was simply the same thing but better.

Speaking of, FMP has a momentum cancelling property, and doesn't put you in free fall, but it's not something that can be used in motion as much as other moves. The amount of frames it needs to even start means that it pales in comparison to some normal attacks in regards to reliability, though at early percents can potentially be safely deployed after a down-tilt. Still, Onslaught can be used at a greater distance and I believe has greater kill potential.

I've had a lot of success with Exploding Side Kick:

It comes out a few frames faster than a Falcon Punch (launching both at the same time, ESK hits before Captain Falcon begins to say the word 'Punch') and much faster than Warlock's Fist (there's only just enough endlag on the ESK for the Mii to potentially get caught, but doing it close enough yields full damage and the warlock punch will miss as Ganondorf steps past you).

While it deals less damage as a base to smaller characters (for some odd reason), it comes with a Sweet Spot at the end of the attack which buffs the damage to equal that of a Falcon Punch. For example, being as close as possible to Captain Falcon without pivoting will deal 30%, while doing the same with Mario deals 27% unless you get him in the sweet spot, in which case it will deal 30%.

Using Mario as a test subject, Sweet Spot non-pivot ESK will launch Mario at 0% 5-6 grids on the training map. A Falcon Punch will launch 11 and a Warlock's Fist will launch 13-14.

Additionally, the Super Armour gained when the kick is launched is nothing to sniff at, considering that the Brawler isn't exactly a heavy character. This means that outside of a grab, there's a more limited window to punish the use of the move than one might expect. It also deals about the same amount of damage to shields as the Shotput does, but given Shotput's range, ESK would make the Mii likely more vulnerable if used against a shielding opponent. While the launch power of the ESK is lacking compared to FP and WF, its speed and brief Super Armour provides some utility that can compliment the Brawler's size and nimbleness.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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Honestly, I've been having some level of success with 3123, and it plays rather comfortable from my own experiences, and am currently testing 3323. I'll do my best to explain why I didn't take Shotput.

While I understand the advantage of a projectile, the actual range of it kinda makes it disappointing for me. It comes out fast enough, and doesn't hamper mobility in the air, but the amount of time stuck in the animation while the ball is in motion means characters that excel with speed and close combat could exploit it, especially considering the relatively short range of the projectile (about 4-5 grids while grounded, which is the distance of some dash attacks or travelling side specials). I used to use Flashing Mach Punch, but found that Onslaught was simply the same thing but better.

Speaking of, FMP has a momentum cancelling property, and doesn't put you in free fall, but it's not something that can be used in motion as much as other moves. The amount of frames it needs to even start means that it pales in comparison to some normal attacks in regards to reliability, though at early percents can potentially be safely deployed after a down-tilt. Still, Onslaught can be used at a greater distance and I believe has greater kill potential.

I've had a lot of success with Exploding Side Kick:

It comes out a few frames faster than a Falcon Punch (launching both at the same time, ESK hits before Captain Falcon begins to say the word 'Punch') and much faster than Warlock's Fist (there's only just enough endlag on the ESK for the Mii to potentially get caught, but doing it close enough yields full damage and the warlock punch will miss as Ganondorf steps past you).

While it deals less damage as a base to smaller characters (for some odd reason), it comes with a Sweet Spot at the end of the attack which buffs the damage to equal that of a Falcon Punch. For example, being as close as possible to Captain Falcon without pivoting will deal 30%, while doing the same with Mario deals 27% unless you get him in the sweet spot, in which case it will deal 30%.

Using Mario as a test subject, Sweet Spot non-pivot ESK will launch Mario at 0% 5-6 grids on the training map. A Falcon Punch will launch 11 and a Warlock's Fist will launch 13-14.

Additionally, the Super Armour gained when the kick is launched is nothing to sniff at, considering that the Brawler isn't exactly a heavy character. This means that outside of a grab, there's a more limited window to punish the use of the move than one might expect. It also deals about the same amount of damage to shields as the Shotput does, but given Shotput's range would make the Mii likely less vulnerable if used against a shielding opponent. While the launch power of the ESK is lacking compared to FP and WF, its speed and brief Super Armour provides some utility that can compliment the Brawler's size and nimbleness.
ESK is definitely a good move, there's no question about it. It's just that shot-put is his only projectile option. He's not fast enough to reliably win neutral without it (like little mac or sonic or falcon), and he's not tanky enough to not care, like Dorf. Sure, it's range isn't great, but it's just enough to deter an approach, or more importantly: attack people who are camping you. If someone is trying to stay away and projectile camp you, running in will just get them to dodge and run away. With a projectile, you can send it toward them and stay in the same place, severely limiting their dodging options. It's not amazing against sword/rushdown characters, but it's not really supposed to be.
 

Tesh

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I only play 1111, because I don't know how rulesets are gonna swing on this, so I can't speak comparatively. However, I'd say all his 1111 specials are improved greatly from Smash 4. You don't HAVE to finish up B, it goes pretty high when recovering, it actually combos into itself properly so you can use it OoS and for suicide kills (or if done right it only kills your opponent).

Side B doesn't activate on shields and has a ton of lag when it misses, but its crazy strong and you'd still die for missing with it in smash 4 anyway. I only use it to whiff punish for the early kill center stage so I'd understand swapping it out for something with a more practical use.

Shotput is nice, I don't use it in neutral at all because of the lag (I'm sure I could get away with a retreating one though), but its amazing to edgeguard with. Its tough to avoid because people can't risk dodging it and you can safely toss it to hit ledge grabs.

I was not aware1111 down B still grounds people when done from the air. I use it out of shield/tech chase because it just kills people now. And it appears to combo properly when knocking people off stage for the suicide. I wouldn't say its a good landing option, I've never gotten away with it at least.

Overall I'm glad his normals are improved mostly. Jab is functional and can lock, the tilts are "meh" but usable out of a run so I can't complain. Bair and Nair are strong, but Dair lost the auto cancel and the ability to kill on stage. Fair is the greatest casualty here. The hitbox is ruined (I can't use it on grounded enemies) and it links poorly (can't use it in the air). The fair1 drag down is gone and it lacks the hitstun to follow up with anything (can't use it while landing). I use it out of down throw at low percents if I'm not confident I can string Uairs. Upsmash back hit is legit.
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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I only play 1111, because I don't know how rulesets are gonna swing on this, so I can't speak comparatively. However, I'd say all his 1111 specials are improved greatly from Smash 4. You don't HAVE to finish up B, it goes pretty high when recovering, it actually combos into itself properly so you can use it OoS and for suicide kills (or if done right it only kills your opponent).

Side B doesn't activate on shields and has a ton of lag when it misses, but its crazy strong and you'd still die for missing with it in smash 4 anyway. I only use it to whiff punish for the early kill center stage so I'd understand swapping it out for something with a more practical use.

Shotput is nice, I don't use it in neutral at all because of the lag (I'm sure I could get away with a retreating one though), but its amazing to edgeguard with. Its tough to avoid because people can't risk dodging it and you can safely toss it to hit ledge grabs.

I was not aware1111 down B still grounds people when done from the air. I use it out of shield/tech chase because it just kills people now. And it appears to combo properly when knocking people off stage for the suicide. I wouldn't say its a good landing option, I've never gotten away with it at least.

Overall I'm glad his normals are improved mostly. Jab is functional and can lock, the tilts are "meh" but usable out of a run so I can't complain. Bair and Nair are strong, but Dair lost the auto cancel and the ability to kill on stage. Fair is the greatest casualty here. The hitbox is ruined (I can't use it on grounded enemies) and it links poorly (can't use it in the air). The fair1 drag down is gone and it lacks the hitstun to follow up with anything (can't use it while landing). I use it out of down throw at low percents if I'm not confident I can string Uairs. Upsmash back hit is legit.
Most tourney rulesets I've seen allow all custom moves, so that won't be a problem for the foreseeable future. Up-B 1 has the same height as Up B 3 (as far as I can tell, if there's a difference it's tiny) so the only reason Up B 3 is better is because it can be combo'd into and has slightly more horizontal distance. I do think Up B 3 is objectively the best, but only by a slim margin vs up b 1.

Also, down b is a landing option. If you use it too much you will definitely get punished for it, but if your opponent is trying to juggle you, it's a great fast way to reach the ground quickly. It's just like any other ground pound/dive kick type move.
 

Tesh

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I rarely use down B to try to land, but the fact that I didn't even know what happens when it hits should tell you how little its worked for me. I'd love to do some bury combos though, so I'll try to find a way to get it to work.
 

PokéfreakofBACON

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I rarely use down B to try to land, but the fact that I didn't even know what happens when it hits should tell you how little its worked for me. I'd love to do some bury combos though, so I'll try to find a way to get it to work.
I'd recommend using it aiming for the ground, not your opponent, when you're trying to land. The grounded version has a rising hitbox that usually combos into the burying hit, which is the best way to set up combos with it. It's a decent OoS option if they hit you with a laggy move.
 

Tesh

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I've never had it bury when it hits people in Ultimate. I do use it OoS though, it just straight up kills, so either way I have no complaints.

I tried the customs a bit and I'm pretty convinced default up B has the best distance, but having a hitbox above you with up B 3 is more practical I expect. I still prefer up B 1 because it can kill people at under 30%. The side B grab is kind of awful. Its weak and the suicide KO doesn't work (they don't even die 2nd, they can just recover after you've killed yourself). You go helpless after the attempt so its not better than onslaught for horizontal recovery.
 

Teronist09

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I'm not very mechanically gifted in my old age but I love brawler and have been playing CPUs / labbing to find combos for this sucker. His dtilt is my favorite neutral right now to try and play around since his Aerials are so lackluster and severely lack in priority. A few I've found:

Dtilt > shop fair 20.8%
(Can lead to mix-ups like fair > jab [32.5%], but you have to be kind of close when you hit the dtilt. Tippering it means you can't really get anything. Stops working around 40%. Only guaranteed after like 6% I believe)

Dtilt > shop fair > dtilt > shop fair 41.6%
(Pretty sure it's escapable with DI on medium characters.)

Dtilt > uB uppercut 24.2% vs dthrow > uB 21.8%
(Best part of this follow-up is it works up to 100% and onwards. Don't think it can kill sadly.)

Utilt > utilt > uSmash / uB uppercut
(Super unreliable under 26% and even then I'm pretty sure you can airdodge out of utilt. If you go for just one tilt then upSpecial I found it works better.)


I'd also say on the subject of customs, dropkick is in my opinion the best side b just for the recovery potential. You can use it to punish airdodge onto stage too. The kick one is SICK and if you're good at reads and tech chasing I'm sure having a weaker horizontal recovery is fine, but for someone like me I can't really play without dropkicks defensive properties. I also haven't seen the headdrop plant people? But it's way more useful in general than the flip kick - thouhh the flipkick is good for getting in and around really fast characters with range over you.
Will keep labbing and practicing stuff. I'm really loving Mii brawler!!
 
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Tesh

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Dtilt is pretty awesome as it low profiles stuff very well. So far a lot of people are putting heavy emphasis on jumping around with aerials and a lot of stuff will just whiff on a low kicking brawler.

My experience with uptilt is that it does not combo well, but you can pretty easily chase directional airdodges with nair then take your free jab or tech chase.
 

Teronist09

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My experience with uptilt is that it does not combo well, but you can pretty easily chase directional airdodges with nair then take your free jab or tech chase.
Is nair out of shield (reasonably) safe for Brawler? My brother is my only practice partner and he mains snake, so not a lot of airdodging happening there, just a ton of nonstop pressure
 

Tesh

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I don't know about dealing with Snake in that regard, because he is more likely to pull a nade than dodge in a string, but yea nair is pretty safe in my experience. I generally get away with spamming it nonstop unless someone can easily out-range my with something just as spammy (like wolf/young link/ness). Its also incredibly strong imo. Nair is basically half of what I do, but I can still wind up using nair to kill at the ledge.

edit: Something to watch out for I noticed yesterday, the spike on the 2nd to last hit of onslaught isn't just for cinematic effect. If you use the grounded version on someone suspended in the air, they will actually be spiked and the last hit won't connect.

edit 2: Burning drop kick is the best side B imo. Its the only one that doesn't leave you helpless so its GREAT for recovery and can be mixed into the advantage and disadvantage of juggles. It has an active hitbox rather than an "inert detector" that seeks a player to activate on. This means it can clash with projectiles and bounce away rather than just taking damage. Its hardly safe, but it does bounce away when hitting shields, which takes a bit more effort to punish. The distance is superior to the others too, so I can use it to follow up after nairs. Onslaught is deceptively bad at that. Burning Drop kick does kill eventually too.

I have yet to bury someone with head on assault, are we sure that works in this game?
 
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PokéfreakofBACON

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I don't know about dealing with Snake in that regard, because he is more likely to pull a nade than dodge in a string, but yea nair is pretty safe in my experience. I generally get away with spamming it nonstop unless someone can easily out-range my with something just as spammy (like wolf/young link/ness). Its also incredibly strong imo. Nair is basically half of what I do, but I can still wind up using nair to kill at the ledge.

edit: Something to watch out for I noticed yesterday, the spike on the 2nd to last hit of onslaught isn't just for cinematic effect. If you use the grounded version on someone suspended in the air, they will actually be spiked and the last hit won't connect.

edit 2: Burning drop kick is the best side B imo. Its the only one that doesn't leave you helpless so its GREAT for recovery and can be mixed into the advantage and disadvantage of juggles. It has an active hitbox rather than an "inert detector" that seeks a player to activate on. This means it can clash with projectiles and bounce away rather than just taking damage. Its hardly safe, but it does bounce away when hitting shields, which takes a bit more effort to punish. The distance is superior to the others too, so I can use it to follow up after nairs. Onslaught is deceptively bad at that. Burning Drop kick does kill eventually too.

I have yet to bury someone with head on assault, are we sure that works in this game?
I guess I was just assuming it would, after labbing it for a while, it definitely does not bury opponents. That's really weird. It can get a pretty cheeky suicide kill if you catch the opponent doing a normal getup, though. I still would say it's the best, since the other two choices aren't great, but it's weird that they nerfed it.
 

Teronist09

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Sentiment on the mii brawler discord is that suplex + feint jump is the best combination. Personally I agree that the recovery of drop kick is hard to give up, but having suplex to counter shields makes sense. I didn't really like using feint jump but it definitely is nice vs the swords characters or anyone with faster aerial mobility. Head Drop doesnt have a ton of utility from what I can see, and the grounded version isn't even guaranteed to combo into itself at certain percents from what I could tell (which is just hilariously sad). Counter is nigh useless so I might try drop kick + feint jump for a while and see how it goes.
 

Tesh

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Sentiment on the mii brawler discord is that suplex + feint jump is the best combination. Personally I agree that the recovery of drop kick is hard to give up, but having suplex to counter shields makes sense. I didn't really like using feint jump but it definitely is nice vs the swords characters or anyone with faster aerial mobility. Head Drop doesnt have a ton of utility from what I can see, and the grounded version isn't even guaranteed to combo into itself at certain percents from what I could tell (which is just hilariously sad). Counter is nigh useless so I might try drop kick + feint jump for a while and see how it goes.
Can I get an invite to the discord? I'd like to keep up with any tech found for the character and I know SB is past its prime.

Does suplex have an oversized hitbox on the grab or what? I only tried it in training mode and what I found was
-the horizontal distance for recovery is abysmal,
-its knockback isn't high so it doesn't really solve the issue of people hiding in shield at high percents,
-while it can "kinda" kamikaze grab people, my initial testing showed it was guaranteed to kill me, but didn't actually kill my opponent (did it to a CPU ganondorf, who easily jumped and recovered leaving only me dead).

Head-on always seems to link fine for me, even with platforms around (but it linked so poorly in smash 4, maybe i'm just too grateful for the improvement) or aiming it off stage (actually reliably linking suicide move). Maybe the people I'm playing are missing out on some DI that could render it less useful. I love the move, but given the dash mechanics in Ultimate, it probably doesn't do anything that a running upsmash/dsmash/fsmash doesn't do better aside from kamikaze tactics.

The counter is definitely strange and unique, which in my opinion might make it the best down B. So far I feel like between default up b and dropkick side b I have fully adequate distance on my recovery (nothing straight up dead zones me) and enough mixup potential that I don't feel the need for a 3rd mobility option from feint jump (but i haven't tried it in this game yet). Not only does drop kick not leave you helpless, you can use it multiple times without landing. My limited testing with counter showed that it won't work on projectiles ( I guess it needs to be able to grab the person who attacked it) (it would not counter olimars smashes at all). It whiffs on very long range sword attacks, but most counters do that anyway. But it throws people behind you instead of just hitting them up or away like other counters. I think this could make it extra clutch in situations where you are cornered or recovering.

edit: I see now that feint jump is invincible frame 1-5? Thats huge, looks extremely committed, but I guess the counter throw isn't so useful against every character and getting out of combos should be useful.
 
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Teronist09

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https://smashcords.com/

^^^^^^^^


I've gone back to Suplex+FJ and tried online for the first time this weekend. Having a shield pressure option is definitely worth it, maybe even losing out on the recovery ability. I still don't have any faith in Hurricane Kick or whatever it's called just because it's really hard to follow into it with anything. Uppercut combos way easier and has at least 2 true or situational true combos for racking damage, so losing the kill potential on the final 2 hits of HK I don't see being worth it.

You can DI out of the setup hit of Head On iirc, and I think heavy characters can air dodge out of it. :( I kind of like it for edge guarding but shotput is 10x safer.

Counter straight up doesn't work on some moves and leaves you open to punish because of the end lag. I don't think I'll try it again any time soon (useless vs my Snake-maining brother lol).

Nair is godly; first hitbox can kill at like 140 and it comes out quick enough to break out of some combo strings. Notably a couple of the swordspeople.
 

Tesh

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Do you know what direction you DI to get out of Head-On? I might have to test it in training mode. In any case, currently I can't justify bringing it instead of FJ to get out of combos and recover (even though it feels so clunky to use). The counter really IS very weird. Maybe some research needs to be done, but its too inconsistent to be worth bringing just because of the greed. I'm guessing the move has to strike Brawler's head to activate. It only works sometimes when being juggled and I've never had it work when I was facing the wrong way to begin with. Its just so cool though...

Suplex seems absolutely awful to me. The range is pathetic so I don't see any way of leading into it. The reward is basically nothing (it kills around 300%). The suicide component doesn't work unless the other guy has a bad recovery. I never see anyone sitting in shield in this game, so I don't feel the need for a command grab without a good hitbox or kill power. If you suplex Snake, sometimes it just blows up the grenade early (?).

The more I use burning drop kick, the more I'm convinced its the best side B. Great for recovery and getting out of juggles. Safest in neutral as it will clash/hop over some projectiles. Also safest on failure/block because it bounces away. Doesn't kill nearly as well as onslaught, but it DOES kill. So far its the only side B I can reliably combo into. Weak nair->BDK combos and kills at a reasonable percent and does as much damage as suplex.

Axe kick horizontal range is deceptively good making it a great OoS option. It has its weaknesses for recovery, but with FJ I'm even more comfortable with it.
 

billybustinside

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I think people seriously underate soaring axe kick. This move is a great suicide move.

Aside from it having the best vertical recovery by quite a bit, if you land it off stage it kills your opponent (at 0%) BEFORE it kills you, making the Chrom-esque cheese possible on brawler.

This utility makes it hard to pass up in my opinion, but I think uppercut is a close second for it's combo ability.
 

Shieldlesscap

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Picked up Mii Brawler last night, and 1112 actually seems to be the best set:
- Neutral B projectile is good, and can be used for offstage killing, or forcing the opponent to recover directly below the ledge, which you can punish using Bair, Dair, etc.
- I haven’t tried the other Side Bs but default is working well for me. Recovery isn’t hurt because I’m using Feint Jump, and default Side B kills ridiculously early grounded. It doesn’t activate on shields but it’s actually safe on Shield if they try to grab and don’t have a tether. It also kills at 100, flat.
- Up B 1 is the best suicide kill in the game, don’t @ me
- Feint Jump is good for recovery, is capable of spiking, and has pretty good priority. It’s not as busted as Smash 4 but it’s still a good move.
 

Tesh

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Being out of range of a shield grab doesn't = safe on shield. The first few times your opponent see its, he might be confused, but its extremely laggy and when someone knows that, its not going to matter that a mashed shield grab can miss. It has a ton of lag, so for as early as you can kill with it, you will die far earlier if you fail.
 

Shieldlesscap

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Messages
139
Being out of range of a shield grab doesn't = safe on shield. The first few times your opponent see its, he might be confused, but its extremely laggy and when someone knows that, its not going to matter that a mashed shield grab can miss. It has a ton of lag, so for as early as you can kill with it, you will die far earlier if you fail.
I get that, I just mean you can start off by conditioning someone to grab and then after they start doing that, you Side B and it either kills or they grab again. It only works once or twice, but that’s enough to get some stuff in.
 

billybustinside

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
2
I get that, I just mean you can start off by conditioning someone to grab and then after they start doing that, you Side B and it either kills or they grab again. It only works once or twice, but that’s enough to get some stuff in.
People use the suplex because it is a good option to discourage turtling in shield all game, which admittedly is a pretty good strat against brawler without it. Suplex is pretty easy to land and does like 19% and you can easily land a few of these per stock and they still are worth landing even with it being stale.

Side B 1 is dope and definitely has kill power but relies on hard reads. With more range it would be more considerable honestly but side smash on brawler already kills EARLY early so it's redundant in my opinion.
 
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Shieldlesscap

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
139
People use the suplex because it is a good option to discourage turtling in shield all game, which admittedly is a pretty good strat against brawler without it. Suplex is pretty easy to land and does like 19% and you can easily land a few of these per stock and they still are worth landing even with it being stale.

Side B 1 is dope and definitely has kill power but relies on hard reads. With more range it would be more considerable honestly but side smash on brawler already kills EARLY early so it's redundant in my opinion.
Fair enough, I just think that at the very least, Burning Drop Kick isn't really worth using unless you need the recovery. I haven't really experimented with Suplex much, but I'll give it a try (I only actually picked up Mii Brawler last night and I'm bringing him to a local today lmao).

As for Onslaught, I think if you can react to a move with high startup or whiff punish them in a position where FSmash won't really hit, it can be really good. I will say it's a bit disappointing that it's so much weaker in the air compared to on the ground.

The other thing about Onslaught is that it kills 13% earlier than Up Smash and has more range, so if you're going to kill off the top it seems to be your best option.
 

Bjurrse

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
28
Location
Sweden
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Bjurrse
I mained brawler through smash 4. I play with shot put or fmp, exploding kick is ****.None of his neutral b's are good. Side b is suplex. Need it for shieldpressure.the pther ones are to laggy and burning drop kick as recovery is futile, like luigis green missile, you'll just get spiked and die. Down b is feint jump, it sucks compared to smash 4, but the ability to mix up recovery is worth it. The counter is mostly **** and head on assault is just bad. Sure you can suicidekill with it and mix up landings, but it is so unsafe.

Up b is still helicopter kick mostly, sometimes axe kick. HC kills so much later, but you can weave back and forth to mixup landing. And it can still cath people at the ledge with its lingering hitbox. I don't like the uppercut, sure it can combo, but it feels stiff and never kills.

Just my 2 cents. I still love my brawler, but he is a very mediocre character.
 

Zackolot

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
6
I think axe kick is the best up-b. It doesn't have the best range offstage but the threat of the spike gives you space to recover if your opponent is smart. If they aren't smart then they die, I've killed people at 0% because they wanted to go offstage to edgeguard. There are also ways to combo into it for a low% kill, though it's situational. d-throw can combo into it, d-tilt can, fair can at low percents (I won a game in a tournament with a true combo nair -> d-tilt -> f-air -> up-b on his fresh stock), and at higher percents, up-air combos into it. The slam hitbox is also pretty strong. I go for the up-b near ledge a lot and it kills at around 100-120%
 
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ArticulateT

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 29, 2007
Messages
422
Most kills I get through Uppercut would be on Battlefield off the top of the screen, at which point it can be somewhat reliable at high percents. Otherwise, it's mainly there as a middle-ground recovery and building percent. I may spend some time trying out Axe Kick with my current set to see how it feels.

Burning Dropkick, now that it lacks the ability to be charged is mainly there for horizontal recovery at the moment. Trying to use it out of short hop is optimal, as it dramatically decreases landing lag when used mid air, meaning you're less vulnerable if you use it and your opponent is too far away. That being said, I do think Suplex is the best out of the three if you are already packing a move with decent kill potential and have your recovery sorted out.

I think Counter Throw is probably one of the best counters in the game, largely because of how it launches opponents. Its drawbacks are a specific hit box size and its lack of activation on anything but a physical move means that it is situational. What makes it so good is that it technically functions as a command grab and throws the target behind you rather than in front, meaning that it can be an option during recovery or warding off opponents who have your back to the edge of the stage. This helps it beat out Lucario's counter slightly, Which does the same thing, but CT doesn't risk flinging the Brawler off stage as part of the move. (Given the animation, I am slightly disappointed it doesn't hurl opponents straight down while in mid air, but I guess for balance reasons it's understandable.)
 

Bjurrse

Smash Cadet
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Nov 30, 2014
Messages
28
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Bjurrse
I've played more and more with axe kick. And the spike is really nice, and the extra verrical recovery makes edgeguarding safer. Easier to make it back after a run off nair or a spike.
 

Mr. Grabs

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 9, 2018
Messages
31
Does Mii Brawler have any Bread and Butters from throws? Perhaps down throw at low percentages?
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
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Upthrow Uair at 0, but otherwise only dthrow yea. Dthrow-fair near 0 and otherwise Dthrow-uair or up B. Landing grabs isn't generally reliable and most brawlers run suplex to handle shields.
 

Zackolot

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
6
I've been doing well with shotput accuracy. I almost always start on PS2 and there's a spot on the platform that either 2 frame punishes your opponent's ledge grab or gives you a punish on regular get-up if you miss by running off the platform and fastfalling. I often jump forward and throw another shotput if the first one hits, since they most likely fall down without a jump. I think practicing the best location to shotput on each stage is important, especially against tether recoveries.

On another note, try to pick stages with good platforms for your combos. Smashville isn't great but can still give you follow ups. The best stages are stages that allow you to approach with full hop nair while also having platforms that your up-tilt reaches through. PS2, Battlefield, and Lylat are the best for combos. Wario Ware is nice too since you can wall jump but I feel most characters benefit more from that stage than Brawler does. Every other stage seems detrimental.
 

Burando

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
10
Attempting to resurrect this thread.
There’s a lot of discussion on here about specials, but I’m curious to know people’s thoughts on Mii Brawler’s other aspects. What is your general gameplan? What kind of matchups do you struggle with, and what kind of adjustments did you make for those that others could learn from?
My time as Brawler is spent mostly in the air, fishing for nair combo’s or fair strings if they’re also airborne. I’ve heard some mention about falling uair’s, and would like some input on how and when that is utilized.
Likewise I tend to struggle against characters with aerials that outprioritize mine.

On a side note, is Jigglypuff supposed to be a hard matchup for brawler or am I doing something horribly wrong?
 

Zackolot

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 23, 2011
Messages
6
Attempting to resurrect this thread.
There’s a lot of discussion on here about specials, but I’m curious to know people’s thoughts on Mii Brawler’s other aspects. What is your general gameplan? What kind of matchups do you struggle with, and what kind of adjustments did you make for those that others could learn from?
My time as Brawler is spent mostly in the air, fishing for nair combo’s or fair strings if they’re also airborne. I’ve heard some mention about falling uair’s, and would like some input on how and when that is utilized.
Likewise I tend to struggle against characters with aerials that outprioritize mine.

On a side note, is Jigglypuff supposed to be a hard matchup for brawler or am I doing something horribly wrong?
I have a really hard time with pichu, so brawler may also struggle with puff. The best reliable kills against Pichu are a suicide up-b when they go offstage to edgeguard you or up smash OoS if you can bait them to try to aerial you.

As for how I play neutral, I usually try to jump towards my opponent a lot to threaten huge nair combos. This conditions them to shield anytime you jump, giving you options to shield break, grab, or shotput. If my opponent is in the air, then I hope my up-tilt has a bigger disjoint than their option, which it normally does thankfully. If you can start juggling with up airs and up tilts then you can easily get your opponent to 100%, depending on stage.

I utilize uair organically from other combos and rarely use it in neutral. You can potentially uair after a dtilt fair, but I usually just hit it from uptilt at 50ish percents to combo into another uptilt or any aerial. You can also use it to steal their jump if you hit it in an untrue combo. Practice uair combos on stages with platforms in training mode and see how you can convert into it and how it converts into other moves.
 

Shieldlesscap

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
139
Attempting to resurrect this thread.
There’s a lot of discussion on here about specials, but I’m curious to know people’s thoughts on Mii Brawler’s other aspects. What is your general gameplan? What kind of matchups do you struggle with, and what kind of adjustments did you make for those that others could learn from?
My time as Brawler is spent mostly in the air, fishing for nair combo’s or fair strings if they’re also airborne. I’ve heard some mention about falling uair’s, and would like some input on how and when that is utilized.
Likewise I tend to struggle against characters with aerials that outprioritize mine.

On a side note, is Jigglypuff supposed to be a hard matchup for brawler or am I doing something horribly wrong?
In general I try to fish for nairs and DTilts, poke with Bair and FTilt, and try to get in Shot Puts when it's safe. Falling Up Air's work but they're generally not super safe, and they're best used to whiff punish.
 

Burando

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 24, 2019
Messages
10
I’ve been experimenting with Flashing Mach Punch recently. It’s got some weird air stalling and the active hitbox lingers for a bit. I’ve had a surprising amount of success catching airdodges with it after several uair juggles (opponent gets conditioned to dodge it, endlag lines up with the startup/active ftames of FMP) it’s hugely satisfying being able to convert juggles into a kill.

Outside of the changes their special moves bring, I guess the playstyle is pretty binary. Makes sense now why all the discussion has been on their special moves. ‍♂ I think it’d still be cool to talk about specific matchups but that might be worthy of a new thread.

Side note, anyone here with tournament experience, how much time have they given you to set up your mii? I imagine it’s “function over form”, default everything choose moves and name equals move numbers, but that beefcake flying man suit makes this character for me. I’d love to be able to rock it if I ever get to that level.
 

Shieldlesscap

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
139
I’ve been experimenting with Flashing Mach Punch recently. It’s got some weird air stalling and the active hitbox lingers for a bit. I’ve had a surprising amount of success catching airdodges with it after several uair juggles (opponent gets conditioned to dodge it, endlag lines up with the startup/active ftames of FMP) it’s hugely satisfying being able to convert juggles into a kill.

Outside of the changes their special moves bring, I guess the playstyle is pretty binary. Makes sense now why all the discussion has been on their special moves. ‍♂ I think it’d still be cool to talk about specific matchups but that might be worthy of a new thread.

Side note, anyone here with tournament experience, how much time have they given you to set up your mii? I imagine it’s “function over form”, default everything choose moves and name equals move numbers, but that beefcake flying man suit makes this character for me. I’d love to be able to rock it if I ever get to that level.
I went to a local once and one of the best Cloud players (and players in general) in my region let me name my Mii "Epic Gamer" mid set.
 
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