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Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

Xivii

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Ex is no newbie though, he has something of over 30 games if I recall, just not on swf.

I also think Ex's lack of understanding the setup may be exaggerated. He's a mathematical player and has led the way in setup solving in the past two games.
 

Rajam

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ExLight, also: that quotation came from Frozen's #261. Was the DarkPit read the only thing that called your attention? What about the other frozen's reads?
 

Chaco

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I felt the same about the way about that, Xivii, precise enough to try and grimily push me about my post to Raxx, sure doesn’t notice the entire traitor speculation talk where we establish it’s a standard traitor per role PM?
 

BoomFrog

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Catch-up post time!

What's interesting is that Boom was the first to vote Frozen and make a case for him, but never actually jumped on the wagon to yeet him
I was busy in RL and didn't have time to participate in the end day. By the river I checked in there were 5 new pages, and the FF yeet was already on lock.

Forgot to mention that this proper case never happened lol
Yeah. Xivii came after me and I only had time to make one case and I was more sure about xivii.

I think this bodes well for me, but it is definitely within scumrange
Are you saying that bussing FF is within your scum range? I thought you were pretty new. Being the second vote on a mate is a pretty advanced and aggressive strategy.

How so? If there were 0 ninja shots, I would assume there was a traitor and Chocolate.
Yeah, my bad, that was wrong.

L-2 full steam ahead, let's get a flip before I fall asleep.
Wtf mate? I haven't even posted yet and you want to end the day? Town Xivii would want to hear my thoughts to try and sort me.
 

BoomFrog

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Voted his scumbud for weak reasoning, failed to join the wagon when it came down to it, was lurking near end of day and posted after the execution to try and make himself look like he didn't know what Frozen was going to flip: Boom
I never lie about RL interference with game. I was sincerely busy all of Saturday and most of Sunday. They only ping to join the yeet on FF came from you and I wasn't going to follow your instructions. Although that's moot since by the time I checked in the yeet was decided.

Also, lurking is for cowards.
 

Xivii

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Wtf mate? I haven't even posted yet and you want to end the day? Town Xivii would want to hear my thoughts to try and sort me.
I'm not sure what makes you think that. And do you really think I could be scum at this point. As Z pointed out I don't bus, it would have been unnecessary to bus, and extremely poor play to do so on the role blocker.
 

Xivii

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Also, lurking is for cowards.
You pulled the same lurking play in Crossover when we were trying to get a hammer on Red Ryu (or Frozen I'm not sure which). You came in right as the day ended pretending you weren't there the whole time.

To be clear though, I fully believe you were busy. I also believe you saw my ping before the end of day. Frozen was your only scumread, surely if you saw we were going that direction, you would have joined in.
 

BoomFrog

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This would be my version of the list.

Never yeet: Fonti, Chaco, Triss, Darkpit, Malakandra

Only Yeet if the below don't end the game: LaserGuy, ExLight, Z25, Xivii

Gonna get yeeted, it makes sense: Boom

Scum Claimed: JackJam
 

Rajam

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2.- frozen's insight in #203. I think it's easier for scum to talk about their town 'leans' because they know who is/isnt town (and its easier to mask 'providing content' that way), and frozen's read on trisscar reads as a genuine 'town lean'
Frozen does not appear to have town leaned me there at all, in fact it looks like they said "null". You should read that again mate.
Yeah my bad, you're right that frozen said 'null read' by the end, but despite that what I meant is that it seemed frozen was defending you, as in knowing you are not his scummate and therefore town:

"I didn't have quite the same reaction as I don't know enough about trisscar to know what's "truncated" language for him relative to his usual playstyle as I have no previous experience with the slot, but I did get the vibe that triscarr wasn't really meaningfully engaging with anything being said. I get a very "cards close to the chest" feel, throwing out comments re: preferences about early game tone and opining on mechanics but very little in the way of actually taking a stance on whether any other slots' contribution reads genuinely protown or scummy. I will give triss credit though for I think accurately describing Xiivi's play as "overeager" which is a null tell imo. "

- He didn't read your language as truncated and at the end gave you 'credit'

While reading frozen's 203 the impression I got is that he wasn't reading you as scum at all. Despite saying having a null read, he still defended you. In #261 frozen puts you in his town reads/leans:

"3. Trisscar - on first read this slot was very meh to me but upon re-read idk why but this slot just feels like a towny trying to have a good time if that makes sense? def more of a gut read"

By the end what I mean is that frozen's posture about you reads as genuine, as in he knew you're town and therefore it was easier for him to see your town intentions (particularly when he said he didnt read your language as truncated)
 

BoomFrog

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You came in right as the day ended pretending you weren't there the whole time.
That was ligit in crossover, I want pretending that time either. I just happened to be scum that time. That thread was a monster.
 

BoomFrog

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As Z pointed out I don't bus, it would have been unnecessary to bus, and extremely poor play to do so on the role blocker.
Fontaine's case was really really good. And the wagon on you was growing while mine was shrinking. You could have seen the writing on the wall and decided to bus (or FF have up hope told you to bus)

However, the fact that you directed neap towards FF very early does point to town Xivii.

If you are town then we've really ducked this up. I'm really hung up on the late chocolate claim. Walk me through exactly what you expected to happen with your strategy at the start of D1?
 

BoomFrog

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It wasn't though. We can see if Bessie has the relevant posts after game.
I remember the whole "I'm trying to not make waves so I can read the thread" thing I argued with Bessie. Idk, I thought that was what I would have ligit done as town in that situation. But regardless if I said "I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread" then that was honest.
 

BoomFrog

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I'm not sure what makes you think that [that town xivii would want to hear from BF before ending the day].
Why would you not want more info to sort me? If you are 100% convinced I was scum your vote me before rajam. If you are not then you want to hear me talk to help sort me right? At minimum to hear if I support the Rajam yeet, right?
 

Xivii

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Fontaine's case was really really good. And the wagon on you was growing while mine was shrinking. You could have seen the writing on the wall and decided to bus (or FF have up hope told you to bus)
Nah, I could have easily swung the execution elsewhere. And if we were going to bus, it would be on the goon. And again I don't bus, I'd rather go down with the ship.
If you are town then we've really ducked this up. I'm really hung up on the late chocolate claim. Walk me through exactly what you expected to happen with your strategy at the start of D1?
I don't think it was late as Fonti pointed out. I didn't intend to claim until Chaco pointed out that Chocolate and Visitor are related to the ninja shots and Traitor. I had originally interpreted it as if there was a Chocolate and Visitor, then there also had to be a traitor.
 

Xivii

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Why would you not want more info to sort me? If you are 100% convinced I was scum your vote me before rajam. If you are not then you want to hear me talk to help sort me right? At minimum to hear if I support the Rajam yeet, right?
No, not really no.
 

Xivii

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To elaborate, I have 0 interest in executing you today and I don't think your view on Rajam says anything either. My read on you is 50/50 I'd say. Before EoD yesterday I'd say it was about 30% scum. I'd like to just yeet Rajam for that extra information and leave the rest to tomorrow.
 

ExLight

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lol it posted twice GAHAHAHA
lol this was kinda funny umu

only missing letters that aren't important in a word's pronunciation
lol
english isn't even my first language
it's flattering you think I actually know how to pronounce most of the stuff I type

Triss is beyond right about Ex’s drunk speech pattern. No one starts posting like that and 20 minutes that is back to normal. Like cmon, and you claimed while pulling it.
idk what you mean 20 min
I had already started drinking by the finals posts (~1h10 AM my time) and indulged into way heavier drinking around 15min later because of some stuff
there were 40 minutes between that post with "normal" typing and me just in a state where I didn't care anymore
the drink hit really hard somewhere around 15min before the drunk message and 25 after the exam one if I go by some of my discord messages and I started to sober up around 3h30-4h AM and then I started drinking some more but my parents woke up so I just decided to go to bed right when it was starting to hit again
I really can't see where the **** 20min fit in this

incredibly pure during the game
this is probably bad reasoning

Traitor - 1
Choco +1
Visitor +2

If there's 0 ninja shots, scum can fake claim Visitor but not Chocolate (because setup is either Chocolate + Traitor or None of Chocolate/Visitor/Traitor)
If there is 1 ninja shot, scum can't fake claim ether Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Chocolate only or Visitor + Traitor)
If there is 2 ninja shots, scum can't fake claim either Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Visitor only or Visitor + Chocolate + Traitor)
If there is 3 ninja shots, scum can't fake claim either Visitor or Chocolate (because setup is Visitor + Chocolate)

So scum could not safely claim Chocolate in either case.
Scum could only safely claim Visitor if they had 0 shots or if they had 1 shot and no one claimed chocolate. So in this case, scum could have only safely claimed Visitor if they had 0 ninja shots.
I'm not really in the mood of understanding it for now but I feel like you probably covered all possibilities
so this is a good post

Malakandra Pretend you're ExLight and you're scum. Do you show up at the beginning of the Day calling Darkpit and Trisscar mafia, pickinf fights with everyone (included the person who just yeeted your partner), talking about the scum rolecop, and screaming about how you're vanilla?
LMFAO this is kinda embarrassing
surprisingly didn't shove the drinking part in it
first time I got drunk while playing mafia I fake claimed doctor despite being an outed town double voter
wild times

but yea if self meta is worth anything I'd've probably be more reactive than active

Anyone familiar with ExLight scum's meta? Chances of scum ExLight asking this?
I am, yeet
scum exlight asking relevant info for town on thread? 0%

I will say it wasn’t inherently scummy though. More just poorly thought out.
you think I faked a drunk speech but it isn't scummy? what?
if I thought anyone faked a drunk speech I'd be like "this ****** is borderline AtE" and tunnel them hard accusing them of pretending to appear gullible to look townie

Your response to this was a 'hmmm'. What does that mean, can you expand a bit more?
I was tunneling on DarkPit at the time and seeing them high in FF's list annoyed me

ExLight, also: that quotation came from Frozen's #261. Was the DarkPit read the only thing that called your attention? What about the other frozen's reads?
I remember thinking he maybe slapped the traitor in some of the ends to call their attention
before giving a second read I felt like mid-bottom town and somewhere in the inactives/null is probably a safe place to slap the other scums, after reading it again I see Chaco and Laser still fit that and it's what I'm going after for now

BoomFrog is still in the PoE but it feels kinda awkward if he's scum because who the **** slaps their scumpartner on the complete top of their scumreads
someone asked me if it was scumbuddying or pocketing and now I'm kinda going back and forth on this because the interactions were kinda scummy but that readslist kinda screams pocketing maybe
 

ExLight

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I'm more interested as to why scum killed NGS, by not killing fonti they leave a town conf and NGS was probably easy mislynch/modkill bait if they were legit inactive

did anyone notice a soft of some kind?

ngl it's kind of something I'd do because I like to kill inactives as scum so the game doesn't lose momentum
does anyone here also have a similar policy publicly known?
 

BoomFrog

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That was me talking about why NSG was unlikely to be pushed by Zen if Zen was scum. Zen was talking about how it would be Logical for him to push a NSG lynch if NSG flipped town, because as I said NSG very obvious newbie townie. Zen an experienced player would not make that move as he would look bad if pushing that. That’s the gist essentially. It was more Zen trying to feel out my slot though I believe.

From what I can tell, it seems mafia got very lucky unfortunately.
I missed that post [NSG softclaim] then when I joined and read the thread. That makes more sense then.
This feels genuine, Z25 is not core mafia. (traitor is possible). Scum would definitely have discussed targeting NSG because of the soft claim, and I don't think Z25 was part of that discussion.
 

BoomFrog

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But, yeah, I'll make a more fleshed out version of a read list "soon" (maybe later today maybe tomorrow.)
 

Darkpit54

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I was busy in RL and didn't have time to participate in the end day. By the river I checked in there were 5 new pages, and the FF yeet was already on lock.
Ah, okay.

Are you saying that bussing FF is within your scum range? I thought you were pretty new. Being the second vote on a mate is a pretty advanced and aggressive strategy.
I've never played scum, so I really can't say for certain. But I think it's important to acknowledge that scum could have done this to.

Why such a strong shift to Rajam? I'm not opposed, but I'm confused about where it came from. When did they claim scum?

Also, why would we want to already end the day? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to get more information?
 

BoomFrog

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And again I don't bus, I'd rather go down with the ship.
You bussed Peaceful Whale when you didn't think you could wiggle out of it. I do agree that was a more last minute situation though. At the point that you decided to go for the FF yeet, who specifically do you think you could have swung the yeet to instead?
 

BoomFrog

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Why such a strong shift to Rajam? I'm not opposed, but I'm confused about where it came from. When did they claim scum?

Also, why would we want to already end the day? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to get more information?
I really shouldn't have kept Rajam at the bottom of the list I copied from Xivii, if Xivii is town the Rajam is the most likely scum by PoE. I really need to resolve my thoughts on Xivii before I can evaluate everyone else.

Also, I'm pushing to not end the day, Xivii is pushing to end day. Did you mean to direct these two questions at him?
 

BoomFrog

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I don't think it was late as Fonti pointed out. I didn't intend to claim until Chaco pointed out that Chocolate and Visitor are related to the ninja shots and Traitor. I had originally interpreted it as if there was a Chocolate and Visitor, then there also had to be a traitor.
You know Chocolate is just Neap's miller. Standard miller play is to claim ASAP. You stated that your goal was to draw the NK to eliminate the ambiguity of chocolate so you know your role is more of a liability then vanilla. So why not just claim in your first post? You'd be unambiguously town confirmed and get NKed as you said you wanted to be. Your stated strategy for your claim makes no sense.
 

ExLight

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But, yeah, I'll make a more fleshed out version of a read list "soon" (maybe later today maybe tomorrow.)
yea I meant more detailed umu
and there's only one scumread in it and there should be at least 2-3 probably which is annoying
 

Xivii

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You bussed Peaceful Whale when you didn't think you could wiggle out of it. I do agree that was a more last minute situation though. At the point that you decided to go for the FF yeet, who specifically do you think you could have swung the yeet to instead?
I mentioned this in Sumthing, that was entirely an accident. Somi or flippy or someone hammered at the last second. I never anticipated he would actually be executed. The only other time I bussed was because it moved scum closer to parity (UP was a pseudo scum member that didn't have a real vote and didn't count towards scum's numbers so he worked to make it look like he was trying to quick hammer our scummate Raxxel and we used that to swing the execution to him).
 

Xivii

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You know Chocolate is just Neap's miller. Standard miller play is to claim ASAP. You stated that your goal was to draw the NK to eliminate the ambiguity of chocolate so you know your role is more of a liability then vanilla. So why not just claim in your first post? You'd be unambiguously town confirmed and get NKed as you said you wanted to be. Your stated strategy for your claim makes no sense.
Why would scum kill chocolate? Their priority is neap.
 

Chaco

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No, Ex, I don’t think it’s inherently scummy, I think it was more just ignorance tbh. And I’m not flaming you over that, just calling a spade a spade. If you were drunk enough to create numerous typos and then later return to normal text patterns and then go back to it again afterwards after it being mentioned, it’s just not genuine. As I said, I don’t think it’s scummy, cause I don’t think any scumwould do that ever. Just completely a dumb play for them, and would seriously jeopardize their game. I think Triss is dead on and you look for points out of offense rather than them being factual. You’re so quick to nitpick minute points that I don’t see you being stupid at all. I see your play being forced, and at that point I’m not sure if it’s a scum tell or not. But WIFOM it up, I still think no scum would ever make a okay that dumb. But 100% you maybe been drinking, but those posting patterns were forced. I don’t care to delve into it anymore because all it’s done is made a distraction where you ultimately claimed.
 

Chaco

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neap is pretty weak actually
their priority is probably the tracker
Neo was the strongest role in the game here. Tracker and Voy are countered by Ninja. ONLY good thing is that scum RC can’t use a Neo claim on a VT RC target as a safe claim.
 
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