Midnight Ops Mafia: Game Thread. Game Over!

[Trisscar]

@#HBC | FrozeηFlame Tbh it's more of a "Please stop sitting on the sidelines" thing.

3DSNinja ...Look, I hate seeing people sit on the edge of games when they'd probably have more fun actually playing, irregardless of what kind of game it is. This isn't a ******* game, you almost definitely don't have a role that modkills you if you talk in the thread too much, and nobody here is going to lynch you just because you spoke up.
You CAN play without automatically becoming a scum or town target, even if it's just asking questions for clarification or pointing out logical fallacies. I've done it, in fact to this date I have not been lynched because no matter what alignment I was or what plays I made, I was willing to talk to people and explain things when I needed to.
This is a game about communication and having fun indulging in it, refusing to talk really is like walking over to the yelling parents on the side of the field and sitting down for the rest of the game while playing on your 3DS or something. It's cool if things are too overwhelming, but if that's not the issue, then I'd probably be going over to you right now and asking you to come back physically.
Seriously, I can guarantee you'll have more fun talking during this game than lurking, no matter what your role or alignment is. And you don't even have to reveal it, the setup actually makes it more advantageous to not do so for just about everyone involved.

Also if anyone goes too far in attacking you, I can ALSO guarantee they won't come out of this without that being challenged to the hilt, no matter who ends up doing the challenging. I refuse to watch this game become the first day of Sumthing again, f*** that.

This game is more fun when everyone is having a good time yo. Can't really get full enjoyment out of it if someone isn't having fun.

 

[Xivii]

btw for those of you that think I'm traitor, if I'm on a scum lynch today that should disprove your theory. Traitor should never lynch mafia. This isn't wifom anymore than a banana is a fruit. I think 3DS is probably traitor.

 

[Xivii]

Mafia can recruit traitor by targeting them right? That means if there's a no kill in this game then it's likely they hit traitor?

 

[Xivii]

In which case voyeur might actually come in handy

 

[Xivii]

If you guys think I'm traitor, Voyeur can be on me. Plus we can have the visitor target me if there is one so masons will know

 

[Xivii]

if voy sees a kill targeting a player and there's no night kill, they can deduce that player is traitor

 

[Xivii]

though i suppose mafia could also just ninja kill

 

[Xivii]

UtopianPoyzin can the factional ninja be used on night kills?

 

[Xivii]

Those LaserGuy votes are rubbing me the wrong way.

 

[Chaco]

@#HBC | FrozeηFlame Tbh it's more of a "Please stop sitting on the sidelines" thing.

3DSNinja ...Look, I hate seeing people sit on the edge of games when they'd probably have more fun actually playing, irregardless of what kind of game it is. This isn't a ******* game, you almost definitely don't have a role that modkills you if you talk in the thread too much, and nobody here is going to lynch you just because you spoke up.
You CAN play without automatically becoming a scum or town target, even if it's just asking questions for clarification or pointing out logical fallacies. I've done it, in fact to this date I have not been lynched because no matter what alignment I was or what plays I made, I was willing to talk to people and explain things when I needed to.
This is a game about communication and having fun indulging in it, refusing to talk really is like walking over to the yelling parents on the side of the field and sitting down for the rest of the game while playing on your 3DS or something. It's cool if things are too overwhelming, but if that's not the issue, then I'd probably be going over to you right now and asking you to come back physically.
Seriously, I can guarantee you'll have more fun talking during this game than lurking, no matter what your role or alignment is. And you don't even have to reveal it, the setup actually makes it more advantageous to not do so for just about everyone involved.

Also if anyone goes too far in attacking you, I can ALSO guarantee they won't come out of this without that being challenged to the hilt, no matter who ends up doing the challenging. I refuse to watch this game become the first day of Sumthing again, f*** that.

This game is more fun when everyone is having a good time yo. Can't really get full enjoyment out of it if someone isn't having fun.

In total agreement of this. Look how DarkPit has asked for clarification and questioned things, it’s literally the prime example of what Triss lays out here.

Also, sorry if I spoke to harshly, I didn’t want to come off slack but wanted to portray how frustrating it is to the rest of the players from a point of refusal, when all we are asking is to just step in and play.

 

[Chaco]

Mafia can recruit traitor by targeting them right? That means if there's a no kill in this game then it's likely they hit traitor?

Depends on how Mod chose to use the role, several variations. From the sample role PM UP listed, it doesn’t seem likely that they would recruit upon targeting and NKing would be more likely?

 

[Chaco]

btw for those of you that think I'm traitor, if I'm on a scum lynch today that should disprove your theory. Traitor should never lynch mafia. This isn't wifom anymore than a banana is a fruit. I think 3DS is probably traitor.

So a traitor wouldn’t bus to gain credibility?

 

[Xivii]

So a traitor wouldn’t bus to gain credibility?

No because they aren't a part of mafia's numbers so bussing would be counterproductive.

 

[3DSNinja]

...I'm also just stressed the hell out rn, so that's partially why I'm inactive.

 

[Xivii]

The credit for bussing would just not be worth it, especially since it would put them on the mafia's radar as a potential night kill.

 

[Xivii]

...I'm also just stressed the hell out rn, so that's partially why I'm inactive.

Who do you think is scum.

 

[Xivii]

UtopianPoyzin does the traitor die upon being night killed

 

[3DSNinja]

I haven't been paying attention tbh, allow me to catch up real quick.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

UtopianPoyzin can the factional ninja be used on night kills?

The factional ninja-shot can be used on any applicable night action.

UtopianPoyzin does the traitor die upon being night killed

Yes.

 

[Chaco]

No because they aren't a part of mafia's numbers so bussing would be counterproductive.

Yes they are. Other members just aren’t aware of their presence. That’s why I’ve made the posts I have regarding the potential of 4 scum. Look at the sample role PM.

Your no credit bussing answer makes literally zero sense for me with your answer of being potential NK, then asking mod afterwards if that is what happens. Seems a tad out of order, don’tcha think? Seems almost self fulfilling to figure out parameters while bringing it to discussion when I have mentioned it prior in regards to meta.

 

[Jackrito]

Nah, screw that, I'm going for Jack.

Vote: Jackrito

I'm going to quote two things here:
1.
This is the first post Jack made as scum in Oasis. Laserguy was his partner.


Now this is Pokechu explaining why the above post was scummy.

Ok, now look at the post about me again:


It's not quite the same (because I am not scum with Jack), but it's a similar thought process. It's focusing on something superficial (mech spec, responding with emojis) coming up with a reason it's scum indicative(helps scum, no reason a town would do it) , and then following up with a reason it could come from town(scum wouldn't try to rub people the wrong way, you may just be a mech type player). The point is that, as Pokechu explained, Jack is rending his own points moot as he says them, because as scum he is painfully aware of the fallacies in his reasoning. I would argue the main difference is that Jack voted Laser while not really calling him scum, and didn't vote me while kind of calling me scum, and that difference is likely due to Laser being his partner in Oasis, and me not being his partner here.

That is just the way I play sadly self awareness, and hedgeing of my own reads is something I do also as town. The laser situation was a one off imo though because not expecting a teammate to throw a curve ball straight away, so it led to a weird interaction, and put me in a tough spot position because a early full on buss when numbers so against me meant a insta loss, but not something I could ignore either.

My interaction with you is weird though as used as a comparsion because my treatment of Laser only came because of the situation mentioned. I have no reason to hedge on you if scum there I just vote you and claim bs rvs. You also claimed earlier you know how I play now so intrested in the sudden change, I have lacked in posting but that should not change your intial view of me.

 

[BoomFrog]

Just so you know, I am here. I'm off my medication right now so it's harder for me to focus and read through everything. I apologize for my lack of activity. Once I catch up I'll post my reads.

Sorry to hear that. If the game is too overwhelming please prioritize your mental health. Don't feel guilty about replacing if you need to.

 

[Xivii]

UtopianPoyzin does traitor count towards mafia's parity?

 

[Xivii]

Vote: Fonti
Vote: Somitomi

 

[BoomFrog]

Here's where I'm at overall:

Thanks for the detailed post.

Vote FrozenFlame

 

[BoomFrog]

I could also go with Fonti.

 

[Xivii]

Somi > Raxxel > Fonti > Frozen

 

[Trisscar]

Good with Somi or Raxxel atm, ignoring all out of game info on things going on.

 

[LaserGuy]

I have you at a scum lean at the moment. I don't know that this post really shifts the mark a lot one way or the other. I actually find your reaction to Xivii kind of strange. I feel like Xivii is essentially doing a woof-gambit and you're the one person who is completely thrown off by it. If you ignore the LAMIST stuff and just focus on what Xivii is actually doing, it seems pretty clear to me that his play is Town motivated. That doesn't mean he's Town, since he still has that BoomFrog medal of honor. But I don't think it's worth obsessing over it at this point in the game.

Hmm... thinking about this more, your (BoomFrog) being obsessed with Xivii's "I'm so Town" shtick is probably more likely coming from Town. I think scum!Boom is probably more likely just to roll with it and not worry about trying to figure out what Xivii is up to even if he doesn't understand it. I think I'll move Boom up to nullTown.

I'd say listing four possible scum is more of a D1 thing, I tend to disregard any setup info in my early reads. There isn't enough information to create a complete game theory and there's no point disregarding suspicions on someone just because there are more scummy people than the setup allows.

Well, this is an open/semi-open setup so I think being cognizant of the mechanics makes a lot more sense here than in a closed setup. Do you actually have any of these early reads? Most of your posts so far seem to be heavily information-over-analysis which is not a great look for you at the moment.

I think 3DS is probably traitor.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me. I have a hard time believing that he's mafia here, but traitor is a tricky role to play and I could certainly imagine him being frozen about not wanting to accidentally compromise mafia.

vote Laserguy

Meh. Never mind.

Vote: Laserguy

This whole sequence of posts from #267-#270 feels really weird to me. fonti's vote on me is feels quite poorly motivated, but her posts are so self-conscious I don't know if I believe that she would have posted her case on Jack only to immediately change her vote if she were mafia. Gut is if there's scum in these two it's probably Jack.

I think at this point I'd probably go with:
somi > Jack > 3DS > Raxxel

Though Raxxel is at the stage that I think I'd rather see a replacement if they don't think they're going to be able to keep up.

 

[Xivii]

but her posts are so self-conscious I don't know if I believe that she would have posted her case on Jack only to immediately change her vote if she were mafia. Gut is if there's scum in these two it's probably Jack.

It's within her scum range. A way to look like she's considering Jack. I think she's also content with me believing they are scummates, so scum!Fonti is intentionally drawing an association.

 

[Xivii]

The progression is too off: "looking into" jack, suddenly strongly town reading him, suddenly scum reading him, suddenly not, voting laser.

Vote: Fonti

 

[Xivii]

And actually you know what, I thought jack may have been playing the way he is because he's a PR, but the Laser vote and his reasoning on Triss are no good.

Fonti and Jack's push on both Laser and Triss look coordinated. Jack has been saying Triss is off when her play has been the same as Sumthing. And Fonti said her posting is more truncated than usual when that's simply a defining feature of Triss' speech in general.

 

[Xivii]

And Fonti's case on Jack is sort of a TMI/perspective slip. It made no sense to compare Jack's comment to his comment on Laser in Oasis unless from the perspective that they are scummates. So I think this is either Fonti trying to get ahead of what she believed to be a tell or Fonti intentionally trying to make herself look like Jack is her scummate (in which case she would probably actually be traitor). Jack's reads however and how coordinated they are with Fonti's is making me lean the former.

I think we should lynch Fonti and Jack should claim whether or not he's a VT and Neap should target him if he is.

 

[Xivii]

Nevermind that last part. This is just Traitor Fonti and Town Jack. Fonti is intentionally playing up the association.

 

[Xivii]

Go to bed Ranmaru

 

[Xivii]

For after flip:

Spoiler

It seems Fonti has probably been in anti-spew mode since the beginning so I don't think there is a whole lot we are going to get from associations. For example these three posts are pure wine:

Going back a bit, I think this is the kind of thing newbie!NonSpecificGuy says if he isn't scum, because as scum he would be painfully aware that he's supposed to be looking for the investigator roles and aware that he shouldn't let town know he's trying to do it. Basically, it's the kind of he posts as town because he in the moment he doesn't get how bad it looks.

So, yeah, I'm not fond of how Laser responded to this either (by asking about NSG's experience, and then voting), though I don't think it's particularly damning as an initial reaction versus this read being something I've been mulling over for a day.

I'm considering 3DS as an ideal backup yeet, if I don't want to go anywhere else, as his refusal to contribute is inherently anti-town and his concern about being yeeted here:

seems more scum indicative than town, as last game he was shot n1, not yeeted, so as town he should have been more concerned about being shot again. The argument for him being town, of course, is that his scummates would be telling him to cut this out already, though considering his responses in thread, I'm not sure he would listen.

3DSNinja , if you are town, I am not trying to upset you or set you up to be killed here, but I simply need more from you. Please do something.

Lol.

Aight, I'll just mark you down as the towniest town to ever town.

But I do think her followup to the Chaco post here, is suggestive of town!Chaco:

I think the whole "I'm hiding how I read people, and it will be secret weapon to win the game!" attitude Chaco was expressing comes from town way more often than not.

I'll find some examples for the Trisscar thing. I felt like she was pretty wordy last gane, though, and was just posting shorter sentences with cut off thoughts here. I could be misremembering last game though, and truncated thoughts aren't necessarily scummy.

The NSG defense should just be ignored entirely, however. And the 3DS push too.

Thank you for the somi meta, it helps clarify that what I didn't like about #133 (the sort of one-step removed perspective) isn't scum indicative for him. I did like this:

I don't have any good reasons for liking, it just feels like something a town would think in somi's spot.

I think of all her interactions, this one is most suggestive of scummates. It's distancing while also subtlety planting reasons for town!somi in the town consciousness.

Conclusion: scum!Fonti = scum!Somi and vice versa. No other associations are conclusive.

 

[fontisian]

Nevermind that last part. This is just Traitor Fonti and Town Jack. Fonti is intentionally playing up the association.

I'll take this as a compliment.

If you want to understand my Jack progression, you can just ask

LaserGuy Why has your somi read changed?

 

[fontisian]

This whole sequence of posts from #267-#270 feels really weird to me. fonti's vote on me is feels quite poorly motivated, but her posts are so self-conscious I don't know if I believe that she would have posted her case on Jack only to immediately change her vote if she were mafia. Gut is if there's scum in these two it's probably Jack.

Worth noting I dislike this because it's too correct, if that make sense. Like, yeah, I probably wouldn't have done that as scum (except maybe as a traitor to distract from a scummate, good guess Xivii), but does Laser know me well enough to get that off the bat? Probably not.

Apoogies to Laser for saying that. I know it's an annoying argument to address regardless of your alignment.

 

[fontisian]

The obvious comparison is to Xivii, who both has a better understanding of my scumgame and is going pretty crazy with paranoia. You can see that he's thinking about the possibilities outside the thread and is reacting as he comes up with new ideas to explain what I'm doing. He's also very paranoid about being manipulated (which is fair, if irritating).

Tl:dr Xivii's reaction was very towny, Laser's was objectively more correct, but also too easy of a read to make.

 

[fontisian]

That is just the way I play sadly self awareness, and hedgeing of my own reads is something I do also as town. The laser situation was a one off imo though because not expecting a teammate to throw a curve ball straight away, so it led to a weird interaction, and put me in a tough spot position because a early full on buss when numbers so against me meant a insta loss, but not something I could ignore either.

My interaction with you is weird though as used as a comparsion because my treatment of Laser only came because of the situation mentioned. I have no reason to hedge on you if scum there I just vote you and claim bs rvs. You also claimed earlier you know how I play now so intrested in the sudden change, I have lacked in posting but that should not change your intial view of me.

Just to quickly hit your last point, I don't know how you play, and that's the problem. Your posts in Oasis prettu thoroughly disproved the toneread I wad working with. The upside is I picked up you having an issue with tmi and certain woodeness to your posts in Oasis, which I'm not really seeing here, but I obviously don't feel confident enough in that to clear you.