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Mid Range Punishes (and Baits)

AndrewtheAmericanDude

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
64
Hello long time Pit here sometimes lurker, I've decided to ask for some help with an ongoing problem. So for 4 or 5 years now I've fought a friend's Robin and I was always on the losing end. I could handle close range fights better but all the while I was growing really frustrated at what felt like playing a dysfunctional character.

Now Ultimate has come along and after practicing and studying, I feel exceedingly satisfied with Pit now, he feels like a functional character finally. I can bait people into fsmashes and side specials when I need them and can juggle Ikes who used to be one of biggest problems, but I've returned to an old problem area lol.

When my friend uses Incineroar my baits didnt work against the side special of such range, but eventually I learned to just defensively sh dair to catch that, but that doesn't work against Robin. Feels like I still haven't learned anything with this mu. All of my attempts to juke him just leave me at mid range which is right where Robin wants me. It feels like my hit and run playstyle kills me here. Normally when I know offense is coming I can put a well placed fsmash or sidespecial near end percents, but Robin has no need to advance and so I dont know what to do and just use my usual punishes right into a projectile like an idiot <.<

To get to the point, against a match up like Robin, how do I recontextualize my evasive movement and baiting strategies? He has suggested I just go all in offensive which seems unrealistic and ineffective. Plus, when I am pressing advantage, despite being able to juggle most popular swordsmen online, I have trouble with Robin's Levin aerials (maybe I need to use a different aerial besides nair for him). He has also suggested I run in dtilt in times where I would normally side special as a mid range punish, that's one idea, I've currently only used run in dtilt in the neutral. And another point is to try using my multijumps to hover at his shield and pressure it which is admittedly not something I'm versed in.

Anyway that's my first post, hope that was succinct enough, I would greatly appreciate any advice, ty. Think we could get a MU thread?
 

Phyras

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
24
Location
South of France
Ridgewood Winter Smash Ultimate: Vernias (Pit) Vs. Nintenbro (Robin) - WR2 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7_FYnTG50c

0:21 Pit Near nullify robin side B (but don't stop the video there, you might learn a lot)

I don't think Pit Side special should be used in punish unless it can give you the kill.
If you're grounded, two dashes and down tilt are actually faster.
Down tilt got range, is less punishable than a side B and can be converted in true Fair or Near.
Else you can still auto cancel your Fair into your down B if you're confident about the projectile coming.

Going "All in offensive" doesn't really mean much, you can be aggressive but you don't want to trade with your disjointed aerials.
You don't want you try a greedy Up air that'll land one 1.5% hit out of 5 and take 13.2% from Robin Dair.
Other swordmen might have different lag, different weight and different damage box.
The safer spot to hit an airborn robin would be behind their feet or else you bait the levin sword attack and punish it.

At the end of the day, you could also try to play Robin and find the weakness you didn't see when playing against.

If you really want to play hit & run, you should know about B-reverse & wavebounce (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1elkJwtDo).
If you're only playing in Destination Final, try to mix some platform stage, it could open many possibilities.
 

Tobb99

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
118
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Fair and d-tilt can be some good pressure at close(ish)-range. I don't think Robin is that good in pressured situations. And Robin is probably good at that mid-range (and also long range). So y, I don't think you can bait robin into a f-smash or side-b, won't really happen. Probably better baiting a side-b or a neutral-b, and trying with airials, or just closing the gap a bit more (usually good against projectile characters).
 
Last edited:

AndrewtheAmericanDude

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
64
Fair and d-tilt can be some good pressure at close(ish)-range. I don't think Robin is that good in pressured situations. And Robin is probably good at that mid-range (and also long range). So y, I don't think you can bait robin into a f-smash or side-b, won't really happen. Probably better baiting a side-b or a neutral-b, and trying with airials, or just closing the gap a bit more (usually good against projectile characters).
Ridgewood Winter Smash Ultimate: Vernias (Pit) Vs. Nintenbro (Robin) - WR2 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7_FYnTG50c

0:21 Pit Near nullify robin side B (but don't stop the video there, you might learn a lot)

I don't think Pit Side special should be used in punish unless it can give you the kill.
If you're grounded, two dashes and down tilt are actually faster.
Down tilt got range, is less punishable than a side B and can be converted in true Fair or Near.
Else you can still auto cancel your Fair into your down B if you're confident about the projectile coming.

Going "All in offensive" doesn't really mean much, you can be aggressive but you don't want to trade with your disjointed aerials.
You don't want you try a greedy Up air that'll land one 1.5% hit out of 5 and take 13.2% from Robin Dair.
Other swordmen might have different lag, different weight and different damage box.
The safer spot to hit an airborn robin would be behind their feet or else you bait the levin sword attack and punish it.

At the end of the day, you could also try to play Robin and find the weakness you didn't see when playing against.

If you really want to play hit & run, you should know about B-reverse & wavebounce (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1elkJwtDo).
If you're only playing in Destination Final, try to mix some platform stage, it could open many possibilities.
Thank you for the suggestions. I've played him again and I learned to weave through his projectiles, by a mix of jumping in a neutral motion and a usual approach. All of which is possible thanks to this being Ultimate not Sm4sh, thank God. Also I try baiting him more now, as mentioned here. One of my previous problems was being too committal to my specials and fsmashes because I can get away with it against some melee characters but I intend to look into safer pressure and reads now.

Glad to know dtilt is the way. 2 dashes? I appreciate that, I love concrete advice lol I do nullify his arcfire sometimes with nair but he can sneak it in often bt maybe if I look for that interception some I can do it more often.

And yeah I love Pit nair this game but it seems I was neglecting upair, being tactful about it, upair can contend with Robin quite well as long as I approach diagonally and get ready to switch that into something else for a read.

Hm Pit has breverse potential? I suppose it makes sense, I do want to get all I can get out of the arrows, I suppose that would keep people guessing for the timing of my approach. Can u elaborate on applications of wavebounce with Pit please?

I very much appreciate the advice, now I just need to iron out my gimping and I think things will be smoother. For some fast recoveries like Robin I have some problems but I think I just need to punish low recoveries with drop down nair. And for his high recoveries, I kinda pester him and bait him now which has success.
 

Vistra31

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
63
NNID
Vistra9000
3DS FC
4038-6222-6181
Switch FC
SW-2087-0604-7226
Arrows are a good option to force approaches. If they don't approach practice getting used to jumping and/or Down B as well as arrows. Jumping is typically your best option for Pit too and just using up one of your shorter jumps gets you more damage anyways. If you can't edgeguard for kills try nair into fsmash. Call me crazy but It's worked before.
 

AndrewtheAmericanDude

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
64
Arrows are a good option to force approaches. If they don't approach practice getting used to jumping and/or Down B as well as arrows. Jumping is typically your best option for Pit too and just using up one of your shorter jumps gets you more damage anyways. If you can't edgeguard for kills try nair into fsmash. Call me crazy but It's worked before.
No you're right that does work sometimes, as well as fair into fsmash but I think some have said only at higher percents.

I try to shorthop arrow a fair bit nowadays but that doesn't feel sustainable against Robin. I think I've been getting better at understanding the process against zoners lately tho. I discovered that I can still be hit and run I just can't do it all by dash dancing, I have to be evasive by weaving around with my jumps sometimes and generally playing "floaty" on the occasion, which is probably good considering Pit's kit.

I do need to practice running dtilt as a punish more like it's been suggested here, I can use it as a combo starter but as a punish I'm not fast enough.

I admittedly need to get good at punishing low again, I started doing well with that earlier on but since focused on other things, but I guess that's off topic :p
 
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