Meta Mewtwo Matchup Thread

[IndigoSSB]

Main Matchup Thread


Mewtwo Frame Data
Corrin Frame Data

For the majority of Smash 4's lifespan Mewtwo was considered to be on the lower end of the spectrum. However, he has recently shown to be completely viable, and with Abadango's win at Pound an influential force in the meta. Lets strike while the iron's hot!

Goal of Primary Discussion:

• Find our strengths in this matchup
• Discuss our cons in this matchup
• Choose our best stages for this matchup
• Discuss Neutral Game
• Discuss Ledge Game
• Discuss Off Stage Game
• Discuss Stock Ending
• Discuss Advantage
• Discuss Disadvantage
• Overall Tips
• Summary

Character Specific Topics:

• Combating Mewtwo's projectile game.
• Exploiting difference in weight.
• Our disjoints vs. Mewtwo's range.
• Ledge Canceling.
• Overall exploration of a character with a growing meta.

We can discuss who wins this match-up and develop strategies against this specific character. This discussion will end with an agreed match-up ratio.

Schedule
Week 3: Mario
Week 4: Fox
Week 5: Captain Falcon

Saki-

 

[Mewtwo the king of bad]

Can I join this discussion l never sleep

 

[Saki-]

Done and Done

 

[Skitrel]

Nobody wants to go first?

I hate this matchup so much. So so much. I'm basically just going to write a super salty post if I'm first to this party.

 

[OceloT42]

Hey y'all long time no see.
I'm just going to put my thoughts out here.
I'd say our dragon's at an advantage in this MU since range is their kingdom.
Mewtwo relies on its Shadow Balls for long range play,but Corrin can harass from afar.
Plus,Mewtwo's ridiculous weight means very early tipper kills.
Since Mewtwo's tall as well, it can fall prey to combos, despite its weight. (MEWTWO IS A POKEMON IT IS GENDERLESS).
Just my opinion though, feel free to disagree.

 

[PK Gaming]

I couldn't find much footage of this being played at high level play and I haven't played it much either. There's Ryo vs Paradise and Cosmos vs Mew(squared) but those are somewhat dated.

Few points to consider:

• We're all about controlling space, and certainly better at it than Mewtwo
• Mewtwo's incredibly mobile, but outside of charging Shadow Ball he wants to come to us
• Incredibly easy to KO (duh)
• Definitely has the stronger advantage state (our recovery is pitiful as usual)
• He has a reflector so watch out, but you shouldn't be charging DFS in this matchup anyway
• He seems to have an easy time getting grabs on us. Especially when we have to land w/ platforms (ie: battlefield)
• Mewtwo's a solid character and definitely not easy to underwhelm like before

That's about it. I can't say more until I play / watch more of this match up at higher levels of play.

 

[Goulmania]

I have played a few mewtwo and I'd say the matchup is even or slightly in corrin's favor I am by no mean a matchup expert but here's what I gathered so far.

Stages:

I think our best stage in the matchup is town & city since he will die super early to Uair and Uthrow. He also can't shark most platforms with Usmash. Battlefield is also a good pick but be prepared to deal with Usmash from below the platorms. Smashville is good too since it's so small and we'll have an easier time pressuring is shadowball charge.

Neutral:

If you play a defensive mewtwo he'll probably want to have shadowball charged before doing anything else, in this case you should backair his shield a few time and try to poke his feet with a tipper IP. Once he has it just shield a lot and try to avoid Side-B on his shield, crossing him up with fullhop Fair is a good mix-up.

If he plays the aggressive game, you have to wall him out with bairs and fairs. The moves you need to respect the most are his Fair, Nair, Usmash and Side-B.

Fair has a huge range and comes out quicker than our Fair and Bair, if the mewtwo is spacing those I'd stay grounded.

Nair is annoying when he lands on you with it but can be challenged with our Nair, retreating fair and pivot Ftilt.

Usmash gets you from under the platforms and slide very far when he does it while running we need to be careful of this option when spacing our aerials.

Side-B is a reflector and a command grab which means it gives him an other option while sharking as well as the option to stun us with our dragon fang shot. If you shield a lot on platform and by the ledge, chances are he will get you with it, this is why I favor jumping away or challenging him with a Dair/IP if he wants to shark.

dealing with Shadowball:

Honestly, like any projectiles, shield is the name of the game. If he juste spam small ones you run/walk and power shield them until you get to him.

If he has a decently charged one, start shielding a lot more and cross him up with Nair or fullhop Fair so he has a hard time catching a landing with it. Patience on the ledge as he can 2 frame you with a ball.

Ledge Game/Off stage:

You do not got off stage against mewtwo! You loose stage control for a small chance at gimping his incredibly fast teleport, you might even get gimped yourself, specially with corrin's... limited recovery.

You should more often than not try to bait aerials through the ledge like Uair or Bair and tipper mewtwo with Fsmash or Side-B.

If he makes it back to the ledge try to punish his get up option.

Recovering:

If you're the one off stage, you're in a dire situation since he has a lot of tools to make sure you don't come back.

If you think he will try to gimp you I suggest you try and challenge him before his move comes out, the only aerials you don't want to trade with are Dair (which gets beat out by draconic ascent unless you recover straight up and he hits you on the head) and nair which will stop you right in your track if it trades.


Welp this is my experience against mewtwo hope this can help somebody!

 

[Empyrean]

I'm not really in a position to contribute but I feel that there are a few important things to note in this MU, just based on numbers. Mewtwo is also my 2nd most played character (well used to be; I'm trying out greninja lately, i like playing other characters to understand what they can/can't do in certain situations), so that probably counts for something too.

• Mewtwo has surprisingly similar frame data and range to Corrin, give or take. His tail is also notably disjointed but not to the same degree as our moves, and while slightly slower, his dtilt has more range than ours. I feel he should be able to punish spaced fair/nair on shield with this, which could convert to his high damage combos.
• Once Shadow Ball is fully charged (and even before that), whiffing IP is NOT an option and can be quite devastating for us.
• Mewtwo's only option to escape our strings is airdodge, since his jump and aerials are too slow. Granted he has the best airdodge in the game but thankfully our nair doesn't care how spammable it is most of the time.
• Our tippers might be extremely potent in this MU, but so is Mewtwo's edgeguarding. His bair will bully us offstage, not unlike Marcina's bair/fair.
• Others with more [read: actual] experience in this MU could correct me on this, but I feel our best approach in the MU is to view Mewtwo as a fellow swordfighter. This is not a MU where we can safely harass the opponent with our superior range and disjoint. It wouldn't be a stretch to view Shadow Ball as Mewtwo's equivalent of DL: a relatively quick, mid-range punish tool that you absolutely have to respect at all times.

 

[Browny]

I have played this a bit and feel its slightly in Corrins favour.

Mewtwo doesnt care about corrins juggles, corrin is too slow to catch him. I find that somewhere around 50% of my deaths are to dragon lunge kick, the rest would be split between dragon lunge tipper, fsmash and counter surge. Corrins uair is just way too dangerous to challenge, not like Mewtwo ever would anyway.

Edgeguaring corrin is only really possible if they arent recovering from as far away as possible. Recovering low with that invincible upb is just too hard to stop. If you DI poorly and have to recover really low, Mewtwo can rather easily just drop down and nair corrin since trying to swat him away with fair or uair is going to send corrin too low to recover.

Mewtwo can really effectively abuse corrins poor landing options with shadowball where really the only thing you can do is counter surge it, that can set you up for a free punish. When I play corrins sometimes I can land 4+ full charge shadowballs purely by hitting them out of their landings.

Do the dragon fang bite whenever using dragon shot if you predict he will reflect it, the bite cancels it out.

Corrin, like cloud, kind of gets fair chained for free and isnt exactly heavy enough to offset the fact they are going to take 30+ damage at a time.

I think Corrin wins because he can legitimately ourtange mewtwo in the air and Mewtwo is especially susceptible to corrins various ledge pressure tricks as he struggles to get back safely where Corrin can sometimes cover every single option.

 

[OceloT42]

Might not be important, but most of the Mewtwos I play against often misjudge the height of the double jump, causing them to rocket past the ledge. In such cases,a well placed Fsmash is super effective.
(YES I MADE A PUN DON'T JUDGE ME)