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Data Mewtwo Hitbox Visualization

Furil

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Notes:
Smash 4 hitboxes are interpolated, so draw a line between a hitboxe's current position and it's last. It hits that area.
Example: http://i.imgur.com/wEBKNpI.gif
This is mostly important for attacks that have moving hitboxes. (Mewtwo's uptilt, upair, ftilt ect...)

I can create visuals of the interpolation, so if there is a particular attack you want to see, just ask.

There are potentially bugs in any of these, so let me know if you notice anything particuarly off.

Mewtwo's multijab has an external reference (most multijabs do) so don't know how to get it, currently.
I didn't bother with getup attack, ledge attack, and attacks such as that.
I can get them if anyone wants, though.

I can get grabs, but I am unsure on the correctness, so I'm omitting it for now.






Thank you
 

ShadowKing

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Excellent but do you think you can shade in the places where it's strongest and make it lighter where it's weakest?
 

Chiroz

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This is like the most useful thread in the boards, lol. Thanks so much for this.

Are you doing the rest of his moves? I am really interested in his different grabs once you can be sure of the correctness of them.


Also @--- , I vote to sticky this.



Also, I hadn't noticed just how awesome Mewtwo's model is, goddamn.
 
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Browny

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I absolutely goddam knew it, bair isnt broken at all. I've seen saying this for months on end as people went 'bair is broken mewtwo is bad youre dumb wahhhhh why cant I win' and now finally its proven
October 27
Let me explain why bair looks off to people, and why it would make sheiks fair look tame.

When other characters do a back air and they are using their arms or legs, those limbs are just hanging freely downwards. When doing a bair they all do a short wind-up of a few frames before pushing it out to make the attack.

With mewtwos tail though, it is always floating out behind him. For him to do a wind up, he would somehow have to curl it backwards, wind up, and then hit. Its not possible for him to curl it back or wind up, so instead the entire wind-up animation and all the frames it takes, are instead taken up by the tail beginning its sweep.

If you look at mewtwos bair frame by frame, for a frame 13 attack he actually starts sweeping his tail out on like, frame 4. If the hitbox matched the animation it would be an insanely fast, powerful, long ranged attack. He literally can not have the usual wind-up frames of attacks because of how his tail is already extended before the attack hits.

When you look at it that way, his bair makes perfect sense. Yes it still whiffs on a short-hop but if the attack matched the animation, it would be stupidly fast and not really make much sense that you are going to take such heavy knockback from being hit by a limb that was already extended before the thrust.

Thanks for this OP, its amazing stuff.
 
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Downshift

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This is so amazing! I've seen these for Melee movesets but never for any Brawl characters.
If you're doing grabs, do you think you could visualize Confusion's "hitbox"? I know it's technically a grab but I use it a lot for spacing and it would be helpful to see the actual effective range it has along with how long the hitboxes are actually active.
 

Furil

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If you're doing grabs, do you think you could visualize Confusion's "hitbox"?
Hm.. It is technically a throw.
What's interesting is if I read it like a grabbox, then I get this: http://i.imgur.com/oKrIyRI.gif
I'm not sure what they are, but they look to be in the correct spot (maybe not correct size?), so I don't know. Maybe one is the reflect and one is the throw?
 

Swoops

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I love everything about this, this is exactly the type of stuff we need. THANK YOU!

Another thing that would be incredibly useful is hurtboxes, to fully demonstrate disjointed properties.
 

Furil

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I don't know where to find the information on hurtboxes or I would be displaying them too.
If anyone does, the I would really appreciate it to know.
 

Metalex

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This is a very good thread! It's great to have Mewtwo's hitboxes visualized like this since they are not the easiest to understand at first, especially for new Mewtwo players.

I'll add this to the Mewtwo boards directory thread right away!
 
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thank you very much for this furil! mewtwo's hitboxes are actually really good <3 that's awesome
 

Swoops

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It's really interesting that his NAir hitboxes are all centered around his hands and feet. I wonder if we could use that to better predict where the opponent will land.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, the goal of each of those hitboxes is probably to pull to the center right? So the left hand would pull them down slightly and to the right, the left foot up slightly and to the right...and so on. The final hitbox I imagine just knocks away from the side of M2's body that you end up on.

It might correlate to what Sonicninja115 Sonicninja115 and others have found, including that odd pop up hitbox (you basically fast fall and connect with ONLY his foot hitbox before colliding with the ground, hence you get the upwards trajectory.)
 

Chiroz

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It's really interesting that his NAir hitboxes are all centered around his hands and feet. I wonder if we could use that to better predict where the opponent will land.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, the goal of each of those hitboxes is probably to pull to the center right? So the left hand would pull them down slightly and to the right, the left foot up slightly and to the right...and so on. The final hitbox I imagine just knocks away from the side of M2's body that you end up on.

It might correlate to what Sonicninja115 Sonicninja115 and others have found, including that odd pop up hitbox (you basically fast fall and connect with ONLY his foot hitbox before colliding with the ground, hence you get the upwards trajectory.)

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.

The hitbox knockback is based on where the opponent is compared to the center of the hitbox itself. The bottom hitboxes always send slightly upwards and the top hitboxes always send slightly downwards BUT...

The all 4 hitboxes send you into Mewtwo if you are on the outside parts of the hitbox but send you away from Mewtwo if you are in the center of Mewtwo. This is why sometimes the opponent drops out of the move. Normally the opponent gets hit by the inner part of the hitbox, send outwards and rehit by the outer part afterwards and sent back in. But sometimes they are barely just a few pixels from the very center of the hitbox and they get hit by the inner part of the hitbox while you're moving full speed ahead and the knockback + your movement causes Mewtwo to move too far from the opponent.

The problem is, which hitbox is actually hitting the opponent? Look at how small the hiboxes are, how can you know if Sheik is going to be hit by the left hitbox or the right hitbox? If Sheik is directly on your arm, how do you know she will be hit inwards or outwards, can you truly tell if she's on the right side or the left side of the center of your hand? Can you do it in 1/20th of a second?

It's not random, as I once though, I actually looked up the code because I was so perplexed and actually already knew how the move worked, but my findings just showed me how impossible it is to calculate the move. There are certain chars who are so thin that they even drop out of the move at times (Bayonetta). I wish inmensely that the hitbox sizes on this move get buffed in the future, but I don't even know if that might ruin FF combos or FF gimps, so maybe it would end up being a nerf.
 

Sonicninja115

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From what I can see of Utilt, it looks like the Utilt-Usmash relies on the tail, and not the awkward hitbox. The awkward hitbox probably applies to the Utilt>Bair.

Usmash is hilarious.

There are 2 hitboxes on Dsmash, does it have a sourspot???

Interesting thing about Nair is that the hitboxes gradually grow larger. The pop up hitbox relies on only hitting the opponent once. this probably happens because the bottom hit sends into the hand hitbox, and it sorta ping-pongs the opponent around. And this proves that Nair KB depends on which side of Mewtwo the opponent is on.

Fair is huge

Bair is hilarious. Also, the upper tip of Bair will send the opponent at an odd angle. I haven't tested it yet because it is hard to hit an aerial opponent. Though I will try to use platforms and a lot of patience to test it.

Dair's sweetspot is fully enveloped by the sourspot, so does this mean that the very tip might not spike?

Uair is janky as always.
 

Sonicninja115

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Excellent but do you think you can shade in the places where it's strongest and make it lighter where it's weakest?
The different circles mark the sweet and sourspots. If you already knew this, then no offense.
 

Chiroz

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From what I can see of Utilt, it looks like the Utilt-Usmash relies on the tail, and not the awkward hitbox. The awkward hitbox probably applies to the Utilt>Bair.

Usmash is hilarious.

There are 2 hitboxes on Dsmash, does it have a sourspot???

Interesting thing about Nair is that the hitboxes gradually grow larger. The pop up hitbox relies on only hitting the opponent once. this probably happens because the bottom hit sends into the hand hitbox, and it sorta ping-pongs the opponent around. And this proves that Nair KB depends on which side of Mewtwo the opponent is on.

Fair is huge

Bair is hilarious. Also, the upper tip of Bair will send the opponent at an odd angle. I haven't tested it yet because it is hard to hit an aerial opponent. Though I will try to use platforms and a lot of patience to test it.

Dair's sweetspot is fully enveloped by the sourspot, so does this mean that the very tip might not spike?

Uair is janky as always.

No, U-Tilt U-Smash is definitely the awkward hitbox, 100% guaranteed since it depends on chars being low to the ground. I can also assure that being hit by the tail overrides the awkward hitbox, so you can only be hit by that one or it doesn't work.

The problem with N-Air as I said is that each hitbox can send you in 2 differen directions, which means it's not dependent on which side of Mewtwo the opponent is at, it's dependent on which side of the hitbox the opponent is at. So if an opponent is on Mewtwo's right side, but is on the left side of the right hand then the opponent will still be sent towards the right.

Also the hitbox do not grow larger, they are always the exact same size and knockback. (Except for the very last one)

The Knock Up is caused by being hit ONLY by one of the bottom hitboxes. So what you have to do is hit the opponent with N-Air 3 frames before landing (so that the upper hitboxes don't hit him).
 

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It's not random, as I once though, I actually looked up the code because I was so perplexed and actually already knew how the move worked, but my findings just showed me how impossible it is to calculate the move. There are certain chars who are so thin that they even drop out of the move at times (Bayonetta). I wish inmensely that the hitbox sizes on this move get buffed in the future, but I don't even know if that might ruin FF combos or FF gimps, so maybe it would end up being a nerf.
Yea the move is pretty wonky and I feel like they really couldn't find a good fit to make the move work the way they intended. Either that or they didn't even know how THEY wanted the move to work.
 

Nobie

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Just give back his nair landing hitbox from Melee. I still don't understand why that thing vanished.
 

Sonicninja115

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No, U-Tilt U-Smash is definitely the awkward hitbox, 100% guaranteed since it depends on chars being low to the ground. I can also assure that being hit by the tail overrides the awkward hitbox, so you can only be hit by that one or it doesn't work.
How many frames are there between the Non-tail hitbox coming out and the Tail hitbox starting?

The problem with N-Air as I said is that each hitbox can send you in 2 differen directions, which means it's not dependent on which side of Mewtwo the opponent is at, it's dependent on which side of the hitbox the opponent is at. So if an opponent is on Mewtwo's right side, but is on the left side of the right hand then the opponent will still be sent towards the right.
So you are saying that the final hitbox determines which way the opponent will go right?

Also, the hands are probably what make Nair landings so difficult to read. But it makes sense why RAR Nair is pretty predictable.

Also the hitbox do not grow larger, they are always the exact same size and knockback. (Except for the very last one)
The 1st hit looks slightly smaller to me then the second hit. I could be wrong, especially if the raw data states otherwise.

The Knock Up is caused by being hit ONLY by one of the bottom hitboxes. So what you have to do is hit the opponent with N-Air 3 frames before landing (so that the upper hitboxes don't hit him).
why do you always seem to think I don't know about the One hit aspect? The three frame thing is new for me though.
 

Chiroz

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Just give back his nair landing hitbox from Melee. I still don't understand why that thing vanished.
N-Air true combos now, it's actually better that it doesn't have a landing hitbox.




How many frames are there between the Non-tail hitbox coming out and the Tail hitbox starting?


So you are saying that the final hitbox determines which way the opponent will go right?

Also, the hands are probably what make Nair landings so difficult to read. But it makes sense why RAR Nair is pretty predictable.


The 1st hit looks slightly smaller to me then the second hit. I could be wrong, especially if the raw data states otherwise.


why do you always seem to think I don't know about the One hit aspect? The three frame thing is new for me though.
I think they come out the exact same frame. The opponent just needs to be low enough on the ground where the tail doesn't reach him him.



Well yes..., but the final hit is pretty obvious, it works like any other hitbox in the game. When people say N-Air is random they always mean the way the autolink hits work.



Well what makes N-Air landing hard to predict is the fact that there are 4 hitboxes which are incredibly small and in very close proximity to each other. Each of those hitboxes can send in 2 directions depending on your opponents hurtbox position. There's a total of 8 different results you can get and the reason for a different result is an extremely small difference in position which you would need to analyze in 3 frame intervals (1/20th of a second).

It's not random but it won't be something you can "calculate". We might be able to learn to "feel" the move with enough practice but Mewtwo's momentum and the opponent's DI also change the results so IDK how plausible that truly is.



They are the same size, I believe they are all 2.3 units of radius and stay so until the end.



Well I was correcting what you said and explaining why the opponent is popped up.

1-) Bottom Hitboxes pop upwards.
2-) Outer part of the hitboxes pop into Mewtwo.

The last hitbox that touches the opponent has to be one of the bottom hitboxes AND the opponent needs to be on the outer part of the hitboxes.

The reason you need to land 3 frames later is because N-Air rehits every 3 frames, so you need to land before N-Air hits the opponent with another hit.

Technically you can hit your opponent as many times as you want with N-Air as long as the last hitbox is a bottom one on the outer side, but the easiest way to achieve this is to space AND time the move correctly.
 

Sonicninja115

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I think they come out the exact same frame. The opponent just needs to be low enough on the ground where the tail doesn't reach him him.
I meant the Tail hitbox first coming out. The tail moves up a bit before the Long hitbox happens, so I don't think it happens on the same frame.

Also, I was testing Utilt-Usmash because of the hitbox stuff, and sometimes it is better to be a small space away from your opponent to get the Utilt-Usmash. It actually trues better then the close up version. I will try and upload a vid tomorrow.
 

Chiroz

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I meant the Tail hitbox first coming out. The tail moves up a bit before the Long hitbox happens, so I don't think it happens on the same frame.

Also, I was testing Utilt-Usmash because of the hitbox stuff, and sometimes it is better to be a small space away from your opponent to get the Utilt-Usmash. It actually trues better then the close up version. I will try and upload a vid tomorrow.

Yes that is partly the reason I was saying I am certain the tail hitbox overrides the non-tail hitbox.

The reason you have to space it against those specific chars is because the trunk hitbox hits them when they are close, but it doesn't hit them when they are slightly farther away.

Try crouching with those chars and I am almost certain you will also get the U-Tilt to U-Smash from close up because the Trunk Hitbox won't hit them at so low height.
 

Metalex

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I meant the Tail hitbox first coming out. The tail moves up a bit before the Long hitbox happens, so I don't think it happens on the same frame.

Also, I was testing Utilt-Usmash because of the hitbox stuff, and sometimes it is better to be a small space away from your opponent to get the Utilt-Usmash. It actually trues better then the close up version. I will try and upload a vid tomorrow.
I wrote a bit about the specific ranges you need to be at for some characters to get Weak Utilt > Usmash to true combo at high percents in the thread on the subject i made a while back:

:4olimar: 75 - 130% (Close and Mid range)
:4villager: 85 - 125% (Close and Mid range)
:4pacman: 95 - 125% (Close and Mid range) (Before 95% Pacman flys out of the first hitboxes of Usmash after the W Utilt)
:4ness: 73 - 120% (Close and Mid range)
:4duckhunt:70 - 130% (Close and Mid range)
:4jigglypuff: 75 - 105% (Close and Mid range)
:4luigi:73 - 120% (Close range)
:4gaw:68 - 110% (Close range)
:4tlink:73 - 110% (Close range)
:4littlemac:70 - 120% (Mid range)
:4lucario: 75 - 135% (Mid range)

I wasn't sure why it was different ranges like this before and why weak Utilt never connects against some characters where it seems like it should but after reading what Chiroz Chiroz said above about the tail hitbox overriding the non tail hitbox it makes sense.
 

Chiroz

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I meant the Tail hitbox first coming out. The tail moves up a bit before the Long hitbox happens, so I don't think it happens on the same frame.

Also, I was testing Utilt-Usmash because of the hitbox stuff, and sometimes it is better to be a small space away from your opponent to get the Utilt-Usmash. It actually trues better then the close up version. I will try and upload a vid tomorrow.

I just looked at the code and all 4 hitboxes start at the same frame. The non-tail hitbox dissapears the next frame while the other hitboxes stay for 4 more frames.

I find it funny that this hitbox was literally programmed in to send people above our head (it has the Sakurai angle programmed into it which means that they set the angle they want it to be at instead of it being dependant on other variables).

The U-Tilt to U-Smash combo was purposely put in.



Edit: Probably as a way to compensate about the fact that we can't hit small chars, lmao.

"Mewtwo can't hit or grab any of these chars, how is he supposed to kill them?"

"Give him a move that sweeps the opponent to his head so he can U-Smash them. But make it only work on small chars" - Genious solution xD.
 
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Sonicninja115

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I just looked at the code and all 4 hitboxes start at the same frame. The non-tail hitbox dissapears the next frame while the other hitboxes stay for 4 more frames.

I find it funny that this hitbox was literally programmed in to send people above our head (it has the Sakurai angle programmed into it which means that they set the angle they want it to be at instead of it being dependant on other variables).

The U-Tilt to U-Smash combo was purposely put in.



Edit: Probably as a way to compensate about the fact that we can't hit small chars, lmao.

"Mewtwo can't hit or grab any of these chars, how is he supposed to kill them?"

"Give him a move that sweeps the opponent to his head so he can U-Smash them. But make it only work on small chars" - Genious solution xD.
Note: I knew the reason why it worked better. That was actually why I thought of it. With the Base starting lower then the tail, there is a bigger hole so-to-speak. Also, their is a large tipper hitbox (At the front of the non-tail?)That makes the farthest point not combo even taller characters.

Sakurai also gave us FF Nair>Usmash. That combo is GDLK. I constantly get it vs. Pikachu when my brother plays him. And against opponents crouching or lying on the ground too. Only the largest characters won't get popped in that state.
 
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Lavani

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I just looked at the code and all 4 hitboxes start at the same frame. The non-tail hitbox dissapears the next frame while the other hitboxes stay for 4 more frames.

I find it funny that this hitbox was literally programmed in to send people above our head (it has the Sakurai angle programmed into it which means that they set the angle they want it to be at instead of it being dependant on other variables).

The U-Tilt to U-Smash combo was purposely put in.



Edit: Probably as a way to compensate about the fact that we can't hit small chars, lmao.

"Mewtwo can't hit or grab any of these chars, how is he supposed to kill them?"

"Give him a move that sweeps the opponent to his head so he can U-Smash them. But make it only work on small chars" - Genious solution xD.
I think you're misinterpreting some of the data.

The Sakurai angle hitbox is the tip of the tail. The Sakurai angle wouldn't put them above your head, either; it starts as 0° and ramps up to 37° as knockback increases. The non-tail hitbox is 110° just like the base/middle tail hitboxes, just with drastically less knockback and damage so it consistently launches to the same spot (right above Mewtwo's head), which does indeed support utilt>usmash being intended.

Also chiming in that the hitbox priority on the move is base>middle>tip>non-tail.
 
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Chiroz

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I think you're misinterpreting some of the data.

The Sakurai angle hitbox is the tip of the tail. The Sakurai angle wouldn't put them above your head, either; it starts as 0° and ramps up to 37° as knockback increases. The non-tail hitbox is 110° just like the base/middle tail hitboxes, just with drastically less knockback and damage so it consistently launches to the same spot (right above Mewtwo's head), which does indeed support utilt>usmash being intended.

Also chiming in that the hitbox priority on the move is base>middle>tip>non-tail.

Interesting.

Is there a way to easily tell hitbox priority through the code? Does maybe one of the Hexadecimal values represent hitbox priority?

I am curious about some other moves with multiple hitboxes but can't figure out which hitbox outprioritizes which.
 
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Lavani

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Interesting.

Is there a way to easily tell hitbox priority through the code? Does maybe one of the Hexadecimal values represent hitbox priority?

I am curious about some other moves with multiple hitboxes but can't figure out which hitbox outprioritizes which.
The order they're listed in is their order of priority.

Or more accurately, lower ID = higher priority.
 
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Mr. B

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YES MATE! I am at work right now, but I will study this thread. I was planning on scraping the data and working this out myself, but if you have done it already I can spend that free time Sm4shing! :) :) :) :D
 

Furil

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From what I can tell from the code itself F-Smash should only have 2 hitboxes.

I think maybe anything to the left of that marker represents the deadzone?
Are you referring to this?
There are only 2 hitboxes here. The tiny one is an extended special hitbox (for display purposes I used 2 spheres and a cylinder to connect them).
upload_2016-3-9_10-29-47.png
 

Chiroz

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Are you referring to this?
There are only 2 hitboxes here. The tiny one is an extended special hitbox (for display purposes I used 2 spheres and a cylinder to connect them).
View attachment 99692
What does that special hitbox do?

Sorry, I am a bit confused about it's purpose since it's completely inside another one.


Edit: Ooooooh NEVERMIND! I just noticed that it's just the circle overlapping with the semi circle (which is the extended part). I get it now, thanks!
 
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Spikezillian

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Thank you so much for this! I will be studying this to my hearts content to help my Mewtwo even further! :)

Would you be okay with me using some of these GIFs for a YouTube video? I would greatly appreciate it!
 

Eldiran

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Awesome work on this!

Hm.. It is technically a throw.
What's interesting is if I read it like a grabbox, then I get this: http://i.imgur.com/oKrIyRI.gif
I'm not sure what they are, but they look to be in the correct spot (maybe not correct size?), so I don't know. Maybe one is the reflect and one is the throw?
I'm going off of memory, but doesn't the reflect last significantly longer than the grab?
 

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Furil Furil

Is it at all possible to get Disable hitbox? I am really interested in seeing that, like super, duper interested.
Given that it's a projectile, it probably has that quirk similar to Brawl Ness fair where jumping backwards gives it "longer" reach, since it isn't tied to Mewtwo at all and just "spawns" in the position Mewtwo is at when the move becomes active.

...Perhaps this could also apply to his fsmash. Most point-blank whiffs I've seen with it seem to come as a result of Mewtwo being pushed by the other character's model, putting them between Mewtwo and the generated hitbox.
 

Furil

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I'm going off of memory, but doesn't the reflect last significantly longer than the grab?
Yes, it does last much longer. I don't entirely know how to read all the script for that move, but it looks. like those 2 boxes are just grab boxes.
The grab boxes are active from frame 12-15, I think.
The reflect seems lasts from frame 12 to... 36? maybe?
That's only my guess based on what I don't know in the data. Maybe someone else can clarify?

Kurogane hammar doesn't even know how long the reflect lasts, it seems: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Mewtwo
 

Sonicninja115

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Yes, it does last much longer. I don't entirely know how to read all the script for that move, but it looks. like those 2 boxes are just grab boxes.
The grab boxes are active from frame 12-15, I think.
The reflect seems lasts from frame 12 to... 36? maybe?
That's only my guess based on what I don't know in the data. Maybe someone else can clarify?

Kurogane hammar doesn't even know how long the reflect lasts, it seems: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Mewtwo
The reflect box almost, or maybe does, last longer then the animation. It's crazy.
 
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