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Metaknight vs. Ike? (and other heavy characters)

Solide

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
5
OK, so I'm an avid Metaknight fan; I try and use him in every situation possible. However, sometimes battles with characters like Ike or Bowser seem a little one-sided (especially against Ike due to the range)--I mean, winning these battles certainly isn't impossible, but it takes quite a bit more effort than against a Falco or something. Metaknight having a projectile would make it better, but he doesn't have one, so that's moot.

Does anyone have any tips or tricks for fighting heavy characters with Meta?

Thanks.
 

Taso

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
123
You're faster and Mach Tornado tends to suck heavier characters in much more easily. That takes damage up big time.
 

White Knight

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
2
Location
New Jersey
When facing Ike, try to knock him off the screen as much as possible. And try to edgeguard so Ike can't come back in with his horizontal recovery. I got away with this strategy twice in one match. Good luck.
 

metaknigit

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
3
Location
Dallas, OR
Try grab rushing, if your fast and u use the dwn throw u can normally catch them off guard and carry them straight to the edge. Heavy characters don't fly as far and unless they catch on (which is unlikely) u get a free kill at the beginning of the match.
 

MetaKnight63

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
118
Location
Angleton, TX
Mach Tornado is good at racking up damage quickly, so use that to your advantage.

Also, don't give them a chance to attack since you're faster than they are.
 

El_Komosutro

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
283
OK, so I'm an avid Metaknight fan; I try and use him in every situation possible. However, sometimes battles with characters like Ike or Bowser seem a little one-sided (especially against Ike due to the range)--I mean, winning these battles certainly isn't impossible, but it takes quite a bit more effort than against a Falco or something. Metaknight having a projectile would make it better, but he doesn't have one, so that's moot.

Does anyone have any tips or tricks for fighting heavy characters with Meta?

Thanks.
Shffl'd (auto L-cancel in brawl) Fair combos **** heavies, just remember to dash when you land since the Fair has such short range. When you know you won't be able to hit your opponent again dash in close and block since they can't grab you out of the air and after a block your when your opponent is about to land, jump out and restart your combo. A diminished Fair combo takes heavies off the stage and if you practice it enough, you can FF (fast fall) reverse up-b hit and recover. DI doesn't really help heavies during a diminished combo so try to force them to waste their jump on stage then combo them off. It's almost a broken combo, but it's not a guaranteed combo (they can air dodge) till you diminished your Fair about 6 hits in.

Personally, for me, heavies don't pose a threat unless they are turtles (ugh! worst is a sheild grab,!) and most characters tend to turtle meta when he gets in anyway. If your opponent starts to block, you can abuse some dirty tricks. Most people like to hear impact on their sheild before they grab so on approach you can just Bair (don't FF) to sucker your opponent into a back to back position (which is usually in meta's favor). When you land just tilt towards your opponent to turn around and wait for a response then act accordingly: ie tech chase a roll, Fair a whiffed sheild grab, ect... People get wise to the Bair trick quick especially after a good 50% damage or even a stock, but then again, if the begin to try to sheild grab early, you can always just Fair, or even more safe, bait it than Fair combo. Also, heavies are big and playing with their sheilds is one of my favorite things to do. If your opponent doesn't move their sheilds, just SH (short hop) and just before the peak of your jump Fair. The first one or two hits reduces the sheild, and the peak of your jump lets you hit the head of your opponent (best used as close as possible). If they do move their sheilds, wait a little more than FF so that the last swing from your fair hits their feet. Also, once you are behind them, you can do a little pressure string I like to do, you SH a Dair than Uair. It has no landing lag and hits through full sheilds on the second time! If you hit, with a Dair, tech chase, if you hit with an Uair, dash into a Fair combo. For run away pokers: ie Ike just short hopping Bairs to stop your approach, let them corner themselves to limit their options. They'll get the point eventually and stop running. Aggressive heavies don't really have much going for them since they are slow. Bait a prememptive attack then counter, or just block their best approaches which are usually dash attacks and aerials then jump out and combo. Moves to watch out for are bowser aerial side-b mix up and gannon ground side-b pressure (of course, meta is fast, bait that shiz). Sometimes you have good kids with some excellent approachs who can are willing to try to grab you (not good for you: ie Ike grab D-throw up smash you cry). Dangerous players like that usually zone you well and once you are in tilt distance, mix you up with safe tilts/smashes and dash attacks/grabs. It's basically high risk high reward that involves them conditioning you into blocking then dash grabbing you before you react. Meta can't zone so you have to out maneuver them. Get your Foxtrotting and dash dancing down (especially dash dancing out of foxtrotting to turn around) so that you can do some minor zoning and major baiting.

If you have problems with Ike's range, just work on your approach because once you're in, he can't get out till you make a mistake: ie bad tech chase or drop a combo. Pretty much stay grounded (good ground mobility) and you're good. If there is an edge on the stage, work that invicibility (a neat little gimmick is to get invicibility, drop than reverse up-b on the stage. it looks cool and catches opponents off guard alot.) Also, I will camp the edge with meta till death, if you want give it a try. On flat stages, just get Ike in the air and up-b spam him to death plz.

Let me know if you want me to clarify anything for you, I'm not a pro or anything great like that, but if anything I do is any good, I'll share with any fellow meta players.

I'm not el komosutro, I'm his brother... If you want to refer to me, plz say ekom's bro.

Laterz

Meta nite 4 lyfe dog...
 

Raphs182

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
17
Location
California, SF
Ike really is no threat, unless your opponent is a pro, obviously, but yeah, all you need to do for Ike is sike him out a lot. And dont be afraid to jump in front of his fB when he trying to come back onto the stage, because it likely he'll die if you meet him some what far of the edge, and then he'll just drop to his doom, if your fast enough just hit him, unless you are at your last stock and at a high percentage, then stay away from this tactic kuz you might die before he does. Ike and Marth, for some reason are easy to gimp, at least for me, so abuse it!

When it comes to bowser, just roll as much as possible until you can catch him off guard, grab as much as possible too. UpB is your best friend and so is Dsmash. Avoid his downB as much as you can, especially when you're both in the air, kuz it will kill you.

For DK, you need to be a quick thinker and try your hardest to catch him off guard. Grab the **** out of him and do some up-throws to get some damage. Avoid his neutral B, it can kill you at 60%. Stay away as much as possible when recovering, try to trick him into using his smash attacks or charge B, before you come back on, kuz you should know that, that is what they are planning to get you with.

You cannot play around when it comes to DK or bowser. Ike, you can have fun with, but just be aware.

I can't say much for DDD since I have never faced a good one.

But yeah, hope my advice works for you.

Also check out tru= vids on youtube for some inspiration!
 

Mr.Trite

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
130
Location
Toronto, Ontario Canada
Yea Ike is really lame to fight against D:

You can't be all over him all the time due to counter =\

Though MK has a really crappy grab range, try to throw some once Ike starts countering.
 

Rx-

A.K.A. Disafter
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
3,370
Location
Dallas, Tx
I just got 1st in a 36-man tourney on Saturday, and 9th in a 128-man tourney on Sunday using (basically) only the Mach tornado to get them to high percents, and a down smash to finish.

Any large character (many tall characters too) get ***** by Tornado, to the point where spamming it is a completely viable strategy.

These characters include, but are not limited too:

Ike
Bowser
DeDeDe
Donkey Kong
Marth
ZSS

This strategy will not work on Snake. At all. It's a waste of time trying.

------

One more technique that's easy to pick up, and combos heavier characters well is Glide Attack Canceled into Shuttle Loop Glide Attack. An Ike's attacks don't often come out fast enough to stop this when it's done right. I've never had trouble getting this on the top Ike players in my area.


These two strategies can be mixed or used seperately, both can be considered "cheap" by scrubs, and both can take out Ike and DeDeDe players at top levels. I haven't met anyone who knows how to punish it yet.
 
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