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Metaknight Matchup Discussion

Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
10,050
I think this would fall under common knowledge that isn't so common.

Don't follow a Utilt or a string of Utilts into anything. Normally we will do a Utilt and string it with a Bair, but in this matchup, all it'll do is get you Daired. Instead of following it up with a Bair, just shield. When/if he Dairs, just punish.
 

Alzi

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
3,450
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New World
I would ban Frigate since we actually do alright on Rainbow Cruise, Frigate is worse since you can't recover properly.

You just need to go crazy with bairs and nairs on RC while on the flying boat.
 

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
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So you're saying the MK match up is worse then we have it as?
 

KribO

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
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So you're saying the MK match up is worse then we have it as?
It might be. The matches get intense and i find myself being almost completely camped verses any MK who can get past a level 9 computer. verses any good MK, my only chance is if the user has a sudden seizure. and even then....maybe only 60-40 TL
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
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So you're saying the MK match up is worse then we have it as?
Not exactly. I used to think it's 60-40 but now I agree with 65-35.

My point isn't exactly that it is worse than 65-35, but that 65-35 is worse than I realized. It's still "winnable" and all, but if the MK knows the MU, as Halberd does, I just don't see how we actually can win...
 
Joined
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Messages
10,050
Sounds like the MU is a hard counter......... 30-70 MK? I still like 35-65, but I'll wait until I get owned by another MK to make my mind.
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
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In all honesty, 30-70 probably would be correct. I think using someone else for this MU would be the best idea...
 

Hyro

Smash Lord
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Jul 31, 2008
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About Metaknight, no one should be surprised that RedHalberd beat us. Other than the fact that it's TL vs MK, you have to remember that Halberd was a match away from winning the whole TOURNEY. The last like 4 tournies I went to I was taken out by:

Lee(MK), Lee(MK)
Judge (MK), DJiskribble (MK)
Inui (MK), Lee (MK)
Lee (MK), Lee (MK)

So the last tourney we had in Lousiana, after I beat everyone with Toon Link, I went MK on Lee in gf. 3-0'd. Won losers finals, tried it again. 3-0'd again. Didn't count on the results thread since I never won with MK lol.

Obviously we shouldn't go Toon Link against MK...but at this point, I'm too far in Toon Link. Even though it's a terrible MU, I'll still probably do better with TL than with anyone else.

It was a fun set though. We did a 3/5 $5 mm. Beat me the first 2 matches on SV (I never beat MK's there but I always go there...) and I decided to try a different CP for the last match. Took him to delfino where it was VERY close. He had 120% and I had 140% and it went to timer. Kinda my fault...I realized time was running out when the timer hit 5 :(

But anyways, finally for once I got taken out...not by MK lol. Got taken out by Razer (Snake) and Roy R (Marth). I don't know why I thought I could take his Snake...just could not kill him for the life of me. I tried camping but apparently I wasn't doing it hard enough. Oh well, he's too legit, I underestimated him. I saw the light after watching that GF set haha. He was playing godlike at the end.

As for Roy R...I don't even wanna talk about it lol. There will be vids of matches 2 and 3 and until you guys watch them, don't mention anything about it lmfao. You guys will cry when you see it.

If I would've won against roy r....a bair away...then I woulda played STUPIDJNIG (loljk) who I play all the time in LA. Then if I woulda beat him I would've lost to Gnes for 4th place...but oh well.
 

Hyro

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
1,386
can't believe we didn't save the first match...you shoulda seen what happened
 

TheJerm

Smash Champion
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Mar 31, 2007
Messages
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Location
Route 23
You ready for the fusion hyro lol?

Oh, and about redhalberd, he's good. I under estimated him way too much. He was just a step ahead, but I know exactly what to do against him. I asked for another MM later that night, but he declined. Forgot his reasons though lol.

I think im pretty much at my limit with TL, so I'll just leave all the TL representation to hyro for the south.
 

Spaztic Monkey

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
30
Location
Snake's box
I personally think that the matchup is a bit off. Depending on the skill of the MK Tink can use boomerangs, zairs, and bombs to make recovery for MK a bit more diffacult. Of course MK could still recover but you can at least get some more projectile damage before he does. Also I think that Tinks areials are a bit underated. Against MK they don't do much but thats because it's MK.
Sorry if you wasted your time reading this, my thoughts dont mean much.
 

KT Kasrani

Smash Champion
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
2,177
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Philadelphia, Pa
thats wat i do. im actually starting to lik to play metas. we have alot of stuff they hate jus do wat santi said.

and@HYRo: lol it jus seem lik u need to stop lettin lee give u da dik
 

Flea_16

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Oct 31, 2009
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georgia
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flea_16
well i think , invinci bombs could help a bunh , it mayb b kinda hard to ibomb right into the nado but if u practice on it it can work. i placed 9th at my last tourny cuz i lost to the same MK twice , he couldnt stop my projectiles so all he did was nado his was towards me T.T
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
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well i think , invinci bombs could help a bunh , it mayb b kinda hard to ibomb right into the nado but if u practice on it it can work. i placed 9th at my last tourny cuz i lost to the same MK twice , he couldnt stop my projectiles so all he did was nado his was towards me T.T
Throw bombs down at tornado. If they don't do it right, you can shield and punish it.

Have a friend just tornado you a bunch so you can learn how to beat it. Hell, it's often punishable on hit.
 

2nLio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
359
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Gainesville, FloDa
hmm, so ive been experimenting with this matchup and from the looks of it...playing aggressive seems to be working really well for some reason...

im having a tourney this saturday and a couple of good MKs including Redhalberd will be at it so ill experiment some more and see how agreessive :toonlink: works against them
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
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No. Just no. Really, you'll be dissapointed at the results ;(

Aggresive is not how we can beat mk. Run away and throw ****. Don't get gimped.

That's it.
 

CTX

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 3, 2009
Messages
447
hmm, so ive been experimenting with this matchup and from the looks of it...playing aggressive seems to be working really well for some reason...

im having a tourney this saturday and a couple of good MKs including Redhalberd will be at it so ill experiment some more and see how agreessive :toonlink: works against them
Well, the tourney hasn't happened yet, but I will just say this in advance...

You got MK'ed hard. Multiple times. I hope for a speedy recovery
 

QUIVO

Smash Master
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Jul 24, 2007
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No. Just no. Really, you'll be dissapointed at the results ;(

Aggresive is not how we can beat mk. Run away and throw ****. Don't get gimped.

That's it.
The key is to mix it up. If they catch onto your projectile patterns/camping style, they're going to **** you. You have to react to what they do.
 

demonictoonlink

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But still shouldn't approach when possible, correct?

I mean, the occasional spaced zair is good and all, but his Ftilt is about as terrifying as Snake's. We have stuff that's safe on his shield, but other than zair, he should be outranging it.
 

Alzi

Smash Master
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Depends really one what type of metaknight you are playing.

If it's a Metaknight that is playing agressive towards you throughout the whole match then camp camp camp camp and punish it's foolish mistakes.

If it's a Metaknight that never approaches and plays really spacey i would mix it up between playing campy and agressive. So camp alittle then mix it up with agressive play style then camp it again.

I just feel that works best. Toon link does have a good agressive gameplay.
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
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If they won't approach you and you aren't significantly behind, throw stuff.

Again, there are times when you should approach, but, at least on MKs side, there is no reason not to be offensive.
 

Drig786

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Feb 2, 2009
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if your thrown offstage always carry a bomb,i always get gimped by his Dair at the edge
 

2nLio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
359
Location
Gainesville, FloDa
alright so i tried out my theory and i think im figuring this out.

I went pretty even with Redhalberds MK in tourney (even though he still beat me) and beat Capem's MK from ohio in a money match.

Aggressive is good but you obviously cant do it the whole time. The trick is, to not be scared of the MK.

What I mean by this is that before, i would camp and get a couple of hits here and there and get ***** in the end. Why would I do this? because MK is such an amazing character and its oh so scary to actually approach and hit him because of his mighty priority. So i figured being super safe would win me the match.

Screw that. When you fight MK, the trick is to be confident and dont hesitate. The second you start playing confident and punish every opening, thats when youll start doing better vs MK.

Camping is always good but it WONT win you the match. As weird as this sounds, safe isnt so good vs MK.

iBombing is amazing vs MK. and oddly enough, so is dair >.>

use your dair a couple of times so that you keep the mk from relying a lot of uairs. Soon enough, theyll catch on and start baiting your dairs and thats when it starts becoming a guessing game. It sounds dumb but i tried it out of a couple of MKs this weekend and the only MK that beat me was Redhalberd and again, both matches were close.

Ill continue experimenting with this matchup this week and see if theres anything new I can learn.

:toonlink:

edit: all these HyRo avatars are confusing me :(
 

Hyro

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
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I mean we've always daired randomly and ibombed the **** out of mk...i know you all remember "aggressively campy". It's nothing to rely on though. You still do literally one thing wrong and your stock is gone. They can do everything wrong and win.
 

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
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Dsmash to dair offstage :(

But I love occasional dairs and Ibombing MK. They work sooo well.

I still suck at it, but I think IZAC might be pretty good for this MU.
 

2nLio

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
359
Location
Gainesville, FloDa
Confidence wins you the match.

:toonlink: > :metaknight:

but yea, you do have to play perfect and not make any mistakes :\


btw, whats IZAC :confused:

edit: and why does everyone have hyros avatar???
 
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