Metaknight Matchup Discussion

[TLMSheikant]

Oh he meant his air speed. My bad (though he never made it clear with his post).

 

[TheJerm]

The match up is 6:4 MK imo. If we stay in the middle and dont make dumb mistakes, we can win.

Out of curiosity, any of you toons try to bomb camp MK?

 

[MJG]

^I do for some of the match (I don't solely depend on the bombs to beat MK though. <3 bombs)...

I also just sit still if I see the MK use multiple jumps (usually 3-4) and wait for tornado. It just seems like they want you to chase them in the air so that they can just suck you into their tornado.

 

[Heavy Metal KiLLeR]

Falco is harder than Mk IMO

Camp him. Avoid him.

iBomb is SO GOOD on this match up(iBomb>Tornado, upB, fair, bair, sideB?, usmash...) and if he can't gimp us (ok he will =0) we can kill him very easy. Usmash and utilt are impressive...

Bair and nair can take an almost even aerial fight...And can take us out of pressure.
Powershield will **** us. If Mk powershields he will have an approach/chance to strike and will **** us.
Mk OoS stuff is good to...

I think it is Mk 60:40 TL...

 

[Jash]

Actually it's called basic mixups. I rarely zair out of dthrow vs better mks because they know it's coming. We DO have options...we simply DI down, hold shield and punish the nado.

Not 100% sure but I think we can even zair and then hold shield?? Maybe not.

Anyways, it sucks that I never get vids up when I'm playing my best. Me vs. Inui last night would've helped...

Still a hopeless matchup...but I guess not as bad as D3 DK. I'll say 65-35.

Last 3 or 4 tourneys...I've only lost to MK's

Proof that toon link can't be beaten without MK's:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264323

I had to play Doom who uses Metaknight 3rd round of brackets that tournament and I 2-0ed him.

 

[kirbyfan66]

Oh he meant his air speed. My bad (though he never made it clear with his post).

I was actually talking about a post on Page 1. Silly me never noticed that post was on Page 3. =P

Of the 4 starters, I guess a TL should pick Final D, not only because it's MK's worst starter, but it's an AMAZING camping stage. TL has some great projectiles to use here.

I think the worst is Battlefield, but only because of the projectile "hate". It's not that TL does bad close range, it's just he seems bad in comparison to Meta Knight.

I say 60:40 in MKs favor, we don't need another Kirby-Falco with these 70:30s when in reality it's closer than that. (Although I think K-F is 55:45 now, or something).

 

[MJG]

BF is actually not that bad of a stage for toonlink to be completely honest...and most of the time, FD will be striked/banned by the MK user anyways (That or Halberd)

 

[TheJerm]

TL can do well on all the neutrals. I dont like fighting MK on battlefield cause they own the platforms. And we cant bomb camp those small *** holes

 

[demonictoonlink]

I spam Ibomb against MK. It works.
Tink is great on BF but many characters, including Meta, are just better there.

I've asked how people avoid being gimped and gotten some interesting answers, but it seems like bottom line we just WILL get gimped.

I liked Quivo's idea of throwing a bomb backwards and back airing our way back, but I think it's better to just keep the bomb.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I've seen no discussion on the topic of avoiding some of mk's moves...

 

[TheJerm]

What attacks?

 

[TLMSheikant]

Well, his most used moves. Did you guys even read the OP and what I expect Toon Links to discuss of the matchup? >_>

 

[Hyro]

I liked Quivo's idea of throwing a bomb backwards and back airing our way back, but I think it's better to just keep the bomb.

*Chip's idea

I've seen no discussion on the topic of avoiding some of mk's moves...

From the old thread...

Onstage we stand a chance with our projectiles. Especially bombs. You need to predict when you'll get shuttle looped and iBomb. iBomb is veeeery important in this matchup. The only reason it's in mk's favor is offstage game. You're probably gonna get gimped. It's not hard. When recovering, throw bombs and boomerang to stop yourself from getting gimped, or try throwing a bomb backwards and bairing back on stage. When you get dthrown, DI down and zair MK so you don't get comboed. If you're by the edge, DI down and zair so you'll tether the edge, but immediatley tap z again so you'll pull up to the stage. When they're spamming grounded shuttle loop, run behind it and bair them. When they tornado you, shield and tilt up so you don't get shieldpoked. Don't airdodge when recovering or they'll wait for it and gimp you. Just think about how predictable airdodging is.

1. Turn around and bair when recovering.
2. Bombs > Tornado
3. Angled Boomerang > Grounded Shuttle Loop
4. iBomb > Aerial Shuttle Loop
5. Zair > Dthrow

Just think about it, Meta Knight has no projectiles, you have 3 and a hookshot. You just have to predict what Meta Knights gonna do. When you're in the air, always, always, always expect the shuttle loop. A good strategy is air camping and just raining bombs. Watch you're arrow cancels, Meta Knights shield dash is quick. If they get to close, retreat. Better yet, don't stop retreating.

I'd say my opinion has slightly changed. I think his onstage game is a lot better than what I thought. All MK has to do is put you in the air. So if we're trying to be super safe in our shields, we're gonna get grabbed. And when you get grabbed, you're gonna get hit.

Another thing is, I don't find it safe to aircamp bombs to much. If they read one double jump, you're gonna get shuttle looped which could cost you the stock.

You have to KNOW when you're gonna get shuttle looped. There are a bunch of ways to try to recover against MK. Bomb backwards to bair like mentioned is one. Another is going low and throwing a bomb up. I would focus on trying to connect with a boomerang though, since even if they're right in your face, it's safe. Lately Lee's been going super low, waiting for the rang , then doing a rising dair for the gimp though.

When you do see them going for the dair gimp and you jump on TOP of the MK (or if they went super low), get ready to ibomb. You have to know when you're in the exact position to get reverse shuttle looped, then do it.

We have millions of strategies and tips to fight mk...all they knew to do is get you offstage. We can spend an hour trying to rack up damage and get the kill safely. They can come back and dair you twice. MK can and will take a stock off you a LOT easier then you can. Just because of how quickly the situation can change and how dangerous it is, I'd say 65-35. At least we have a chance vs Falco when we're at high percents. Just don't get killed.

 

[MJG]

Why doesn`t hyro just give his input from now on? Lol. Great post. If we are low below the stage and we do not have a bomb in hand/not enough time to pull a bomb AND if the toonlink player has his second jump, then Up Air should be pretty safe ( depending on toonlinks angle). This will get the MK player away from the ledge and it has the potential to kill the MK player seeing as how it will send them flying. it can even stage spike the MK player if they are DIing from the stage when they jump off of the ledge.

 

[Thebest1pj]

naw up air not safe.........son

 

[xReix]

Uair is not safe on the ledge or under the stage. A lesson Hyro taught me the 'hard' way.

 

[WindMajor]

It depends on the angles. If he's going straight for you, just do it, but if you're trying to attack horizontally, just hope that MK's fingers slip or something.

 

[MJG]

To clear any confusion I was referring to something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shqCX-fnSlg#t=4m45s

I have personally never done this (and I am not sure how good Hylian's MK was back then) but this came to mind when I posted earlier..

Its still somewhat risky >_>

 

[Thebest1pj]

To clear any confusion I was referring to something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shqCX-fnSlg#t=4m45s

I have personally never done this (and I am not sure how good Hylian's MK was back then) but this came to mind when I posted earlier..

Its still somewhat risky >_>

2008<_< better hopethat mk isnt fast enough to tech it

 

[Hyro]

Thing about upair is when you miss you're dead. It's too laggy, you'll just get hogged. You just gotta be 100% confident their gonna chase.

 

[IrisKong]

I actually like taking MK to rainbow, regardless the character im using(but especially with tink). Its kind of a mind game, I mean lets face it, EVERYONE bans rc against MK, so when they actually do get to go there, they dont know how to abuse it (aside from like m2k but thats different) I know for a fact that Judge (top4 mk and best in MI) hates RC.

I dunno, maybe im just optimistic, but I think its 60-40 mk. its bad, but unless people know the match up (which few do) people dont expect the things we do to work. Ibomb is needed in this match for sure, I also always have my rang out.

If im right, mks fair will beat our bair if spaced properly, so what I do sometimes is bair for alot of the match until he starts using fair/nair, then air dodge into/under him and Uair... its unexpected and kills at like 120.

 

[Thebest1pj]

see iris knows whats up

 

[Karcist]

Ok DTL

Ill do that the...heres Affinity and I playing before his tournament

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWMmyro9sYA

I wanted to cry due to how amazing that was. Amazing Toon Link.

 

[Justblaze647]

When is the OP expected to be updated? I'm very interested to see it...

 

[kirbyfan66]

*Late reply to mjg's vid*

The Toon Link was amazing, but that Meta Knight had some pretty silly mistakes. Second stock and the loss of the third inparticular.

 

[Thebest1pj]

cant take anything from the vid since it was a friendly before tourney mjg

 

[IrisKong]

Ill MM Judge the next time i have him over and post the vids.

 

[MJG]

lol shadow hatin on me hard lately XD.

I stated that it was a friendly anyways

We should get a summary up soon..?

 

[Thebest1pj]

lol shadow hatin on me hard lately XD.

I stated that it was a friendly anyways

We should get a summary up soon..?

 

[TLMSheikant]

OP updated. Oh and please people from now on dont go into the thread and just post a sentence. Post in the format of the OP aka:

Ratio
TL advantages
Other char's advantages
Stages to strike/ban/counterpick
Things to keep in mind

Videos arent neccesary but if you have a really good one between 2 competent players feel free to post it. I will only accept vids of what I think is high level play >_>.

Oh, and also, this thread will remain open and you can keep discussing the matchup or w/e. Sasuke gtfo this remains open.

 

[2nLio]

heres a match I had vs a MK a whiiiille back. Its old but iBombing worked out really well and placing the bomb on the ground and bairing to pick it up also helped out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJi8qtblX4I



edit: btw, that japanese toon link is ridiculous >.>

 

[Tiersr4Queers]

lmao good **** mjg vs affinity. shadow has a point it was a friendly although mjg performance was good.

60-40 Meta Knight. but for some odd reason. i say 55-45. i don't seem to do bad against mk. i only played tyrants mk once and i didn't do as bad as i thought. he 2stocked high %. then again this is me. im not bragging or anything this is only my opionion.

TL Advantages.

- bair does well against him

-dair goes through nado, bombs stop nado.

-zair works very well as long as we don't abuse it.(air dodge zair)

-up tilt kills him very early

MK Advantages

-obviously he has more jumps than us and four recoveries so don't even think about gimping.

-he can gimp us blindfolded

-that **** dair ***** us

-way faster than us, therefore it's not easy camping him.





a few tips i can share although you guys may know this or not. :/ i don't have much

- when he nados, hold your sheild up so he won't lift you off the ground.

- if he dsmashes d.i upwards.

-ibombing is really helpful

-you can d.i outta of his fair

-try not punish mk all the time.

-keep your head.

-be really gay if you have stock lead. literally camp and run.

-my main killer has to be the up tilt.

-strike lylat mk can be really gay here.

 

[Lobos]

wait wait wait....Ban brinstar vs MK?

 

[MJG]

^Thats S@nt's opinion of TL vs MK (since MKs take him there) >_>.'
MKs (even ones that don't play on the stage often) do well on this stage vs TL. I would only ban this stage if I knew that my opponent would take me there.

 

[TLMSheikant]

It can be either Brinstar or Frigate. I think Frigate might be worse. But Brinstar is just ridiculously small. Making it even easier for him to approach and obliterate u.

 

[QUIVO]

Throwing the bomb backwards and bairing is a mixup that I don't do often

 

[WindMajor]

I think it's wiser to ban Frigate, because Brinstar doesn't screw us over like Frigate does. Brinstar just feels small, but Frigate laughs at you when you try to recover.

 

[MJG]

Hmmmm....are people banning Frigate over RC?

 

[demonictoonlink]

My strategy: Ban RC. If they take me to Frigate, MK DITTO!!!

Yeah, it's a cop out...

 

[Lobos]

I rather ban frigate over rc....brinstar is one of my counter picks....people ban that vs me, although since pound everyone is banning fd now :/