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aggreed then!
That's no way to run a thread designed to give information. As soon as the topic creator begins applying his own personal preferences into his descriptions, the thread begins to fall apart as the thread becomes less and less accurate.
Lucario's jab, albeit slower than most jabs in the cast, has incredible range, a very large amount of priority, which is coupled with aura's special transcendent priority. In other words, Lucario's jab is disjointed, and will outprioritize virtually any non-disjointed hitbox. At the same time, if some move happens to somehow bypass the aura, such as a disjointed hitbox, Lucario's paws will act as a regular hitbox, parrying the attack. Combine that with the fact that at the cap, Lucario can pull off a whopping 14% without even canceling it, and I think the jab deserves to be a little bit higher. Also, I personally think Pit and Olimar should find a way to get squeezed in there, or at least Pit should. Pit's jab, albeit on the slow side when it comes to jabs, is an amazing "gtfo" move, and is also the only jab that can be either an infinite jab or a 3-hit jab at will. It has relatively good knockback for a jab, disjointed hitbox, etc. Toon Link and Link's jabs should probably get up there as well due to disjointedness, range, and still being pretty quick.
First of all, where in the world is Lucas, and why is he not in the top 5? Hell, why isn't he top 3? Lucas's forward smash has incredible range due to a very long disjointed hitbox, is a mere 2 frames slower than Kirby's (14 frame startup!), insane KO power, very nice damage output, and it even reflects projectiles (without a sweetspot!). I'd personally put him after Wario and Lucario (order is debatable), or hell, I'm almost tempted to give him the #1 spot. Nobody else's Fsmash is that versatile or that amazing. Wario's and Lucario's come close, though.
Zelda's hurt badly by DI. Put Ganondorf above Yoshi, and bump Zelda out.
Zelda needs to go up, TL needs to get out, and either Fox or Lucas have to get moved to slot 10.
Snake above Diddy. Ganon above Diddy. ZSS wtf. I'm not sure, but I think Jigglypuff may go above Peach, but I've never experimented much with her dash attack, so I'll keep my mouth shut on that one.
Squirtle wtf. Swap either Pit or Zelda for Squirtle, methinks.
Okay, WHAT? Explain yourself right now. Lucario's Utilt is a good move, but there's no way in hell it's the second best Utilt in the game. Lucario's Utilt has a small hitbox, comes out in 5 frames behind him, has a sweeping hitbox, only juggles at very low %, doesn't kill at all until stupidly high % where they should already be dead, and is nowhere NEAR as good as Fox's or D3's. Fox's Utilt comes out in 3 frames. Anyways, Luc needs to get out of that list, or at least get below Peach. Kirby needs to go down a few spots to probably right above/below Mario, GnW and MK need to gtfo this list, and they should probably be replaced by Pit in 6th place, Zelda in 7th, and Marth in 8th.
D3 up a few spots. DK down. Samus out (How the hell did she make it in there?) Bowser in.
...Okay, explain yourself again. Why the hell is Diddy in there? Move Lucario up above Peach. Put Diddy behind Lucario. Also, I think Pikachu should get out. Ike/Bowser in.
Mario out. Stick Zelda in between GnW and Marth.
Ganon above D3. GnW above Ganondorf's new placement.
Luigi up one above MK
Lucario above Pika-*SHOT*
This is all screwy. Wolf above Pikachu. Lucas below ROB. DK out. Fox/Ice Climbers in.
The mentioned, methinks.
thanks for all the suggestions! all of them make sense and are really useful. Ill get busy!
You know he didn't give any reasoning for half of the categories, right?
Her upair, as strong as it is, is very bad.
VERY close to pits but pits still wins IMO b/c it does more damage and knockback at most percents, is WAY faster, and is almost as hard to punish as lucario's...
/facepalm. how could i forget? pikachu can CG everybody cept like jiggs to a certain %, and fox to like...100% O.o. oli's is pretty good too
ower makes better than Yoshi's IMOFine. you make a good point,especially about peaches, even thouugh it isn't as fast. if this keeps up, it looks like dk may have one og the best move sets in the gameI think DK's u-smash should be in the list. The kill percents for this thing are ridiculous(possible stronger than Fox, and as fast) The only issue is how hard it is to actually hit with, but its easier than Peaches. And its speed
it was on the list, but then a zillion people flamed at me and told me to take it off...
Still, it suffers from slow startup and the fact that it puts you into helpless.
its not even that slow, it starts just as fast as his F-smash, has super armor, more range, more shield pressure, kills better, and it doesn't matter that it puts you in to free fall. why would you use this off stage or way up high? you wouldn't.
that doesn't matter though since most dks use it on or near the ground anyway, and near the ground, which cancels the lag similar to using the up+b near the surface. fludd ***** it though
lol you dont have too say that shhhhh... your just addiing to its post count
tell me that DK's neutral is not better than toon link's
I don't really think TL should really even be up there, but I'm also not so sure that DK's would be any better.
This was tested on a large custom stage. I went in Training Mode, selected Pit and Falco, and went to my custom stage. I rolled Pit and Falco all the way to the far right until they were at the point where continuous rolling to the far right would be pointless, since any character can't roll off the stage. I then added another CPU and made him go to the far left. I fired Palutena's Arrow and Falco's Blaster at the same time, and Palutena's Arrow went the furthest. This might not make any difference on a regular stage, but whatever.
So sue me, pumpkin. As long as you understood what I meant, that's all that matters, which is why I brought up delay. I didn't know any other way to word it.
I wasn't making a straw man. If I was, I would've taken what you said and set up a refutation against something you never said. You said,
It was a misunderstanding on my part, especially the part where you said, "and the hitstun can be acted upon."ShadowLink84 said:
congrats! that makes you the 15th person to put that forward!
True, yoshi's has a practical hitbox though. and since it's disjointed (for some reason) so it goes through everything (i use it on nado's)I think DK's u-smash should be in the list. The kill percents for this thing are ridiculous(possible stronger than Fox, and as fast) The only issue is how hard it is to actually hit with, but its easier than Peaches. And its speed
because it sucks. the IDC is banned, btw
