Meta Knight

Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,353
#1
After lurking here for sometime I feel like no Falco main seems to really get in-depth about any match-up in particular. Everything feels and sounds like a very generic rehash of the same thing. Pretty much any match-up discussion always ended with a one or two sentence speech on the traits a character has rather than directly addressing what one is suppose to do in particular situations.

I was hoping with this thread to go into more detail of what one should do to combat Meta Knights various aspects about him. For example,
-If I shield Ftilt should I attempt to punish it?
-What is there to do about Dtilt on shield?
-Suppose Meta Knight is spacing jump -> dair near you. How can you combat this?
-What about Meta Knight on the ledge?
-What are the ideal ways to punish his grounded UpB? Or glide attack attempts?
-Is there any hope of trying to grab the ledge from Meta Knight, or is it best to always stay on the stage?
-Apparently you cannot SDI the repeating hits of Tornado and instead only the initial hit. How can you deal with the Tornado then?
-How punishable are MKs attacks overall from his ground game?

There are probably more things to consider that I wasn't thinking of. Oh, should one ideal be able to react to MKs attempts to UpB you as you are recovering from above, or do you have to completely call a read on it for air dodge or try going for a trade.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
GRimer
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
5,334
Location
Mobile, AL
#3
-If I shield Ftilt should I attempt to punish it?
-What is there to do about Dtilt on shield?
-Suppose Meta Knight is spacing jump -> dair near you. How can you combat this?
-What about Meta Knight on the ledge?
-What are the ideal ways to punish his grounded UpB? Or glide attack attempts?
-Is there any hope of trying to grab the ledge from Meta Knight, or is it best to always stay on the stage?
-Apparently you cannot SDI the repeating hits of Tornado and instead only the initial hit. How can you deal with the Tornado then?
-How punishable are MKs attacks overall from his ground game?

There are probably more things to consider that I wasn't thinking of. Oh, should one ideal be able to react to MKs attempts to UpB you as you are recovering from above, or do you have to completely call a read on it for air dodge or try going for a trade.
Which hit of Ftilt because he can always chain into the next one? What spacing? Jab is probably the answer although roll away may be more profitable.

Roll away, leave the situation. Jab if you think he's going to read your roll. SH rising dair while retreating.

Nair. Nair eats MK dair alive.

What about MK on the ledge? You're ****ing Falco. Back up and hope he gets back on the stage. Anything else you could try is incredibly risky. Shoot lasers and try to limit his options to return to the stage and stand near enough you can grab it if he starts to stall out for less ledge grabs but not so near you can get hit from the ledge.

Glide attack is safe if you're anywhere near the ground, don't try and punish it. Depending on where you are, grounded UpB may well be safe too. You may can hang out a Dair or Bair if he has nowhere to retreat to.

Almost always best to try and stay on the ledge. That's a hard read for a small profit.

You don't. You phantasm into it and take percent. You roll, spot dodge, or air dodge and tank more percent. You shield and then look at him because he doesn't have significant enough lag to get a solid punish unless he ****s up. If he tries and approach with it, you can laser or USmash him because he's retarded, but in general, you just take it because Tornado is really ****ing good at beating defensive options and very safe besides.

Not very unless he uses Jab, Utilt, or USmash. You get punishes in the form of jabs, lasers, and grabs that you follow-up to land your actually damage in the match-up.

No, you have to read MK's UpB because you can't air dodge on reaction and if he doesn't want to possibly let you off, he can just tornado at you for free percent and a reset.


The match-ups all get a two sentence rehash because Falco is always about doing the same things.
 

1PokeMastr

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 10, 2009
Messages
2,252
#4
After lurking here for sometime I feel like no Falco main seems to really get in-depth about any match-up in particular. Everything feels and sounds like a very generic rehash of the same thing. Pretty much any match-up discussion always ended with a one or two sentence speech on the traits a character has rather than directly addressing what one is suppose to do in particular situations.

I was hoping with this thread to go into more detail of what one should do to combat Meta Knights various aspects about him. For example,
-If I shield Ftilt should I attempt to punish it?
-What is there to do about Dtilt on shield?
-Suppose Meta Knight is spacing jump -> dair near you. How can you combat this?
-What about Meta Knight on the ledge?
-What are the ideal ways to punish his grounded UpB? Or glide attack attempts?
-Is there any hope of trying to grab the ledge from Meta Knight, or is it best to always stay on the stage?
-Apparently you cannot SDI the repeating hits of Tornado and instead only the initial hit. How can you deal with the Tornado then?
-How punishable are MKs attacks overall from his ground game?

There are probably more things to consider that I wasn't thinking of. Oh, should one ideal be able to react to MKs attempts to UpB you as you are recovering from above, or do you have to completely call a read on it for air dodge or try going for a trade.
- Depends on the hit of F-Tilt, but rolling away is usually best for hit 1. If it's misspaced, you can grab it oos.

- Dash Attack/ Gatling Combo Oos, Jab Oos, Grab (Misspaced), JC Usmash Oos (Misspaced) you can do this before Mk moves, his D-Tilt is -12 on Block.

- Know that Mk has to land soon, and seek out to punish that, or Block the Dair and punish with Bair Oos. Or Nair after the dair finishes.

- Space yourself from the ledge with SHL or SHDLs. This way you can cover and react to what he tries to do when he tries to get back on. Don't run off stage against him.

- Or grab the ledge when you think he'll Up B/ Down B and punish with a Bair/ Dair.

- I assume on block. Bair, Nair, Uair.
- When he's gliding, do a Backward Nair because the hitbox comes out behind Falco first and glide attack will clash with one hit, then Mk will eat the rest.

- You have to mix it up, there's no sure fire way to make it back on with Falco.

- Mash Nair, most of the time you'll go through Nado with it because it pops Falco up, into the centre at times and you're giving damage to Mk. It's.. in my opinion, better than trying to air dodge through Nado.

I'm not going into details about punishing his ground game, look up his frame data.
I have a headache.
 

DEHF

Smash Champion
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reseda CA
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larrlurr
#5
-If I shield Ftilt should I attempt to punish it?
If ftilt isn't space properly you can upsmash out of shield if you believe Metaknight will delay the second hit or won't go for any others. If Metaknight goes for the third hit you can dash attack, up smash, jab, ftilt. If the ftilts are spaced properly, you can make a guess and drop shield dash attack or jab.
-What is there to do about Dtilt on shield?
You can drop shield and buffer jab if the dtilt isn't spaced properly, grab if it's spaced incredibly bad. If it's spaced properly, there's not much you can do except for roll or jump over the dtilt.
-Suppose Meta Knight is spacing jump -> dair near you. How can you combat this?
This all depends on the spacing of the dair. If he's low enough, you can hit him with utilt. If he's higher than utilt you can try and hit Metaknight in between dairs with bair, nair, down b, or even jump above Metaknight and fast fall dair.
-What about Meta Knight on the ledge?
Just wait for Metaknight to try and come back up. There's not much you can do, unless you see Metaknight not space his edge grab properly, then you can hit him with a ftilt, dsmash, fsmash, or possibly usmash.
-What are the ideal ways to punish his grounded UpB? Or glide attack attempts?
Metaknight's glide attack loses to nair, it will clank with the first hit, then he will get hit with the rest of hits of nair. Another thing you could do is get under Metaknight while he's gliding and hit him with pretty much any attack. Block the grounded up b, it's too hard to punish the start up since he's invincible during part of it. Once he goes into glide just punish it the ways that I mentioned in my previous sentence.
-Is there any hope of trying to grab the ledge from Meta Knight, or is it best to always stay on the stage?
If you're referring to edge guarding, then yes you can, but it's very difficult. You have to count Metaknight's jump, then force him to use all of them and/or be able to bait his b recovery.
-Apparently you cannot SDI the repeating hits of Tornado and instead only the initial hit. How can you deal with the Tornado then?
If you're stuck inside tornado there's not much you can do except eat the damamge. If you pop out of tornado you can air dodge through it, nair the top of it, side b away, or even use up b the break the up b. Each option is situational, but all of them can get you out of tornado if you can predict how Metaknight will continue his tornado.
-How punishable are MKs attacks overall from his ground game?
Pretty punishable if they're not space. If they are it's a lot harder, but can still be done. It all depends on who guesses right.
All of my answers are in red.
 

C.J.

Brawl Backroom Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,102
Location
Florida
#7
Just wanted to add on that if you pop out of nado, you can also mash jump and footstool it to get away.
 

DEHF

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larrlurr
#11
all of Falco's aerials can break tornado at the top, but it is easier to break it with nair because of the multiple hitboxes and the range on the attack.

:phone:
 

DEHF

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larrlurr
#13
No, nair is better because it has three separate hitboxes compared to all of his other aerials, minus fair. This means nair gives you three chances to break tornado compared to dair, bair, and uair which only give you one. Even if Metaknight decides to move the Tornado behind Falco when he sees him pop out of it, there's still a possibility of Falco breaking it with nair because there's a hitbox behind him as well.

Fair will almost always break tornado from the top, if the Metaknight decides to move tornado move tornado in front of Falco when he pops out. The only problem with fair is horrible amount of lag you get when it isn't auto cancelled, you're pretty much guaranteed to get punished if you don't hit metaknight with the last hit of fair or you don't auto cancel it.

:phone:
 
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