Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[da K.I.D.]

Ive read the interviews from Daigo, Tokido, and Mago. As well as blogs and diarys from a bunch of the top players. and while ive seen people state that Fei can beat yun. Nobody is out there explicitly saying that Fei has better across the board matchups, or is a better flat out character than yun.

 

[Spelt]

Rei's probably basing that decision on the tiers from the japanese pros when AE was still in beta.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

No I meant MK's planking is much more frame tight than the rest of the cast, like John stated.

I know that. I didn't said Game & Watch's planking is as perfect (frame wisely) as MK's. I said, Game & Watch's planking is as *safe* as MK's. Most characters won't go off the stage to hit Game & Watch's planking, even if they have a couple of frames to do it. It's just really dangerous, as any mistake could mean your stock (Like against MK's planking).

 

[Reizilla]

Wow, Spelt, you've hit it right on the money.

 

[Cassio]

Of course they didnt, the fact that theres 3 to 6 top tier character IS WHY nobody had to get banned. You dont need to ban chun li in 3rd strike because yun and ken could compete with her.

There are at least 5 or 6 characters that can compete with Metaknight. Are you saying Chun had a disadvantaged MU? If so then that would be different.

 

[da K.I.D.]

ugh. the matchup in third strike arent as important as they are in brawl. if you want me to explain why youll have to wait till tomorrow.

 

[Reizilla]

The results speak for themselves. Looks to be about equal dominance.

 

[John12346]

rofl at MK being untouchable. Strategy was overpowered but...no. Anyways, heres the source:

I was wondering if we could compare Akuma's air fireball to MK's PLANKING, not MK, jeez...

There are at least 5 or 6 characters that can compete with Metaknight. Are you saying Chun had a disadvantaged MU? If so then that would be different.

Apparently, despite Chun Li being the best in the game, she loses to Yun, 4-6, so... idk.

 

[Cassio]

kid Matchups really arent that important in brawl either. But Ill wait to see your explanation.

@john I know >_> its still not nearly the same. And from what I heard she doesnt lose to ppl, but apparently kid has some explanation.

 

[Thino]

So, are you guys back to comparing Brawl to other fighting games for a decision that in appearence took just a group of TO's voting on a poll? This already happened a couple of pages ago and you guys are back at it again.

Is there another poll scheduled before January 9th so that you have to convince URC members into voting something else, or comfort them into their vote?

Because the main reason why MK is banned (from tournaments using Unity ruleset) and Chun is not banned from 3S, DP is not banned from MvC3 etc.. is because the Brawl community IS different from the other community, as obvious as it may sound.

The Brawl community handled the situation differently than other communities.

Pro-bans can say whatever they want, it doesn't really matter since the vote they were supporting passed.

Anti-bans, if you guys are really bothered by this decision and the idea that there are gonna be tournaments that will be MK legal and other tournaments that will not be MK legal then get a chance to talk to most if not all URC members that voted for the ban and try your best to convince THEM, and not random Pro-ban people that are in this thread.

You guys are not pragmatic at all, just sayin'

 

[Exceladon City]

There are at least 5 or 6 characters that can compete with Metaknight. Are you saying Chun had a disadvantaged MU? If so then that would be different.

That's with the current ruleset instated to keep him in "check". Falco v MK with no LGL may as well be unwinnable. Same goes for EVERY character sans .

 

[Savon]

Smash will always be different because there are so many other things to consider compared to other fighters. If MK had no bad MUs, but did not break the CP system or have rules to keep him in check things would be different. However that is not the case, so we have to keep that mind when we compare ourselves to other fighting games

 

[iRJi]

The fact thus discussion is still happening is amusing.all I know is, when metaknigjt was talked about in any form, that **** got closed. Close this thread lol.

 

[Ussi]

Brawl has 8 top tier characters.

Oh wait match-ups? Congrats on contradicting yourself. MK has Diddy and Snake for even or even 6-4 matchups. By your logic, MK shouldn't be banned simply because Diddy and Snake exist and can probably beat him.

Slippery slope man, slippery slope.

Edit: technically, brawl has 8 top tiers, but MK is in a tier above top tier, and so in essence the argument still holds true, MK is in his own tier above the rest of the cast.

MK has no bad MUs, waiting on the new BBR chart before i start spewing if MK has/doesn't have even MUs

 

[Reizilla]

I don't see why breaking the counterpick system is such a big deal if it's something the community created. Just fix your ruleset.

 

[Judo777]

I don't see why breaking the counterpick system is such a big deal if it's something the community created. Just fix your ruleset.

But the counterpic system is really good. More so other games have a very similar system just without stages. That system gets ***** tho when you have a character with no disadvantged or hardly even MU's and get a significant boost from almost every stage.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

or unban YI Pipes.

 

[Tommy_G]

I'd love anyone try to play a smart Pit player with no LGL.

 

[UltiMario]

And I'd love to see a tourney where the stage list wasn't specifically tailored to give MK as many advantages as possible. Maybe with a 10 minute timer too, while we're at it.

Literally like. Brinstar. I hate playing on that stage, I don't think ANYONE likes playing on that stage, but god its like a free win for MK in too many match ups. It's hilarious.

 

[Exceladon City]

And I'd love to see a tourney where the stage list wasn't specifically tailored to give MK as many advantages as possible. Maybe with a 10 minute timer too, while we're at it.

M2K get on your own account.

 

[UltiMario]

Loool.

Nice one.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Ness mains, DK mains, and G Watch mains and Wario mains all love brinstar but they could never pick it before because of the fear of a pocket mk. Also, I would love to embarrass some pit that tried to plank me

 

[Tesh]

And I'd love to see a tourney where the stage list wasn't specifically tailored to give MK as many advantages as possible. Maybe with a 10 minute timer too, while we're at it.

Literally like. Brinstar. I hate playing on that stage, I don't think ANYONE likes playing on that stage, but god its like a free win for MK in too many match ups. It's hilarious.

Most tournaments are geared towards giving him as many disadvantages as possible. The starter list at pretty much every non MLG tournament is a list of his worst stages. He has a special LGL, often a scrooging rule.

MKs timing out with 20 ledge grabs or less won't change much in 10 minutes. A less painful suggestion would be lowering his LGL to 20 or 25.

 

[UltiMario]

LGL lowering even more could work too. I like the 10 minute timer better just because it inhibits time outs across the board, maybe a universal LGL of 40 or 35 would work with that well, too. Anything to try and get the game to speed up.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ness mains, DK mains, and G Watch mains and Wario mains all love brinstar but they could never pick it before because of the fear of a pocket mk. Also, I would love to embarrass some pit that tried to plank me

*adds Ike mains to that list*

Extended, longer lasting hitboxes, aethersliding everywhere, our powerful KOing abilities are THAT much more deadly, and we don't get gimped as often...such a great stage for Ike.

 

[da K.I.D.]

also what the hell is with all of you people and your 'we dont like timeouts' garbage?

Since when did 'We have to lessen the amount of timeouts that happen' become a legitimate criteria to make rules on?

 

[Jimmyfosho]

Mario is also pretty good on brinstar

 

[UltiMario]

also what the hell is with all of you people and your 'we dont like timeouts' garbage?

Since when did 'We have to lessen the amount of timeouts that happen' become a legitimate criteria to make rules on?

They're just boring to watch and people don't like to be bored.

 

[da K.I.D.]

They're just boring to watch and people don't like to be bored.

So... Does anyone have an actual, legitimate reason here?

 

[Tarmogoyf]

They're just boring to watch and people don't like to be bored.

So are MK dittos

 

[UltiMario]

MK is one of the few characters with a semblance of offense.

I think you mean Pit Dittos

 

[Ussi]

MK offense vs MK defense, what wins?

 

[Reizilla]

The better player.


Time-outs are an arbitrary win condition, so reducing them as much as reasonably possible is favorable.

 

[Ussi]

Yet we need that arbitrary win condition so there is an incentive to fight so it doesn't come down to it.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

MK is one of the few characters with a semblance of offense.

I think you mean Pit Dittos

And is still the #1 character at timing people out. You don't see people approaching MK due to the fact he can actually combo you lol. More reason not to get near him.

And no, try D3 dittos.

Time-outs are an arbitrary win condition, so reducing them as much as reasonably possible is favorable.

I agree with this though. Bigger timer is better for the game

 

[Judo777]

LGL lowering even more could work too. I like the 10 minute timer better just because it inhibits time outs across the board, maybe a universal LGL of 40 or 35 would work with that well, too. Anything to try and get the game to speed up.

No no no its not MK is a problem as a character its just WE HAVEN'T PUT ENOUGH RESTRICTIONS ON HIM. Maybe if we just lower the LGL, and give it a ten minute timer, and maybe take away his B button, and while we are at it lets say you can only play MK game 1, also his uair is pretty good lets say you can't do more than 2 in a row too. I thin if we made these changes it could work...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[da K.I.D.]

you forgot the part where somebody said mk couldnt use counter pick stages.

 

[Life]

Likewise, Brinstar is auto-ban for a handful characters (usually the same ones that CP to FD, plus characters like Sonic and Pikachu). This isn't a bad thing: removing Brinstar would be an arbitrary buff to those characters, and arbitrary buffs are just as bad as arbitrary nerfs.

 

[Fierce Deku]

The shorter the time limit, the more effective stalling/running/camping is. That's not what the game is about, it's designed and centered around taking all the opponents stock. Even without intentional stalling, some matches wouldn't be allowed to finish with a short time limit. Someone who's been involved in ruleset crafting please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression we wouldn't even have time limits if it weren't for the fact that we need to move the tourneys along so that they can be completed in the allotted time.

Before anyone compares this to other fighting games, remember that Smash is not two characters depleting each others' health in a relatively small box specifically designed to have a timer going. In smash a timer just lets people win without necessarily seeing the match through to the conclusion it ideally would be allowed to reach.

On a different topic, all these anti-MK rules that people are suggesting are further confirming how much he dominates the metagame. Whether you're pro-ban, or anti-ban but with a bunch of rules to limit MK, you're admitting that MK is a major problem. Making rules that will screw with the rest of the metagame just to keep MK down makes a mess, while banning him stops the problem at the source, removing all of MK's direct repression of the metagame (through being way overpowered/broken) as well as the indirect problems (like the side effects of a bunch of anti-MK rules). I feel like all our tournaments are being set on fire, and some people want flame retardant Wiis and for buckets of water to be part of the venue fee, when we could really just arrest the one guy with the flamethrower who's torching everything.

 

[Eddie G]

*adds Ike mains to that list*

Extended, longer lasting hitboxes, aethersliding everywhere, our powerful KOing abilities are THAT much more deadly, and we don't get gimped as often...such a great stage for Ike.

Most Peach mains like it as well. I know it's a frequent choice by Illmatic in some matchups, I'm pretty sure Nicole and the others use it as well. I used to use it a lot, but after 2010 hit and most players had a pocket MK to switch to, I stopped using it.