Meta Knight has 2 horrible problems.

2 C H i L L E D

Eternal Hitstun
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
308
Location
Birmingham, AL
3DS FC
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#1
1) He does crap damage. Like half the damage output of 70%+ of the cast.

2) His specials have so much lag that it’s almost never a good idea to use them.

The crap damage part can’t be argued you can combo the absolute **** out of someone and look at their percentage and it will be like 40% at best. Yet Pichu can net like 80% with the same amount of effort.

Funny thing is his special moves do great damage but let someone shield shuttle rush or Mach tornado and you are going to eat some form of punishment.

I don’t think this is fair to MK to be honest. Since he nearly never able to use his special moves it makes his gameplan one dimensional. That gameplan usually consists of a lot of air camping, f-tilt, d-tilt and d-throw. Sprinkle in Fsmash and Dsmash when you need to kill. This is literally all MK is. I don’t think he should have BOTH horrible damage and near unusable special moves one or the other is enough to keep him balanced. I say reduce the lag on his specials and just let him keep his crap damage. Giving him too much damage would be pretty broken.
 
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Rehnquist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
91
#2
You shouldn't be doing nado on a grounded opponent. Nado is a ledge guarding tool and can finish a Uair Dair bridge as it has a powerful horizontal knock back. It also has really good horizontal recovery.

Drill is an amazing safe and low recovery tool that can stage spike, can be used for a mix up (instead of SL use Drill) or against a neutral ledge option.

Cape is mainly used to land safely with an autocancel, can punish people charging smash attacks, can recover, and can condition people with empty capes to land an attack once or twice a match.

SL is a combo finisher, and a ledge guard move (neutral and jump options covered)

End lag on specials is not what is hurting meta knight.
 

Kyl

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
8
#3
1) He does crap damage. Like half the damage output of 70%+ of the cast.

2) His specials have so much lag that it’s almost never a good idea to use them.

The crap damage part can’t be argued you can combo the absolute **** out of someone and look at their percentage and it will be like 40% at best. Yet Pichu can net like 80% with the same amount of effort.

Funny thing is his special moves do great damage but let someone shield shuttle rush or Mach tornado and you are going to eat some form of punishment.

I don’t think this is fair to MK to be honest. Since he nearly never able to use his special moves it makes his gameplan one dimensional. That gameplan usually consists of a lot of air camping, f-tilt, d-tilt and d-throw. Sprinkle in Fsmash and Dsmash when you need to kill. This is literally all MK is. I don’t think he should have BOTH horrible damage and near unusable special moves one or the other is enough to keep him balanced. I say reduce the lag on his specials and just let him keep his crap damage. Giving him too much damage would be pretty broken.
I really don’t care, as I Maine’s doc Mario in smash 4 and it was torture but I have one word for advice, ADAPT TO “Overpowered characters”.
 

2 C H i L L E D

Eternal Hitstun
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
308
Location
Birmingham, AL
3DS FC
3956-0619-2163
#4
You shouldn't be doing nado on a grounded opponent. Nado is a ledge guarding tool and can finish a Uair Dair bridge as it has a powerful horizontal knock back. It also has really good horizontal recovery.

Drill is an amazing safe and low recovery tool that can stage spike, can be used for a mix up (instead of SL use Drill) or against a neutral ledge option.

Cape is mainly used to land safely with an autocancel, can punish people charging smash attacks, can recover, and can condition people with empty capes to land an attack once or twice a match.

SL is a combo finisher, and a ledge guard move (neutral and jump options covered)

End lag on specials is not what is hurting meta knight.
Well I guess since I pointed out Meta Knights problems you assume I have no experience with the character.

I’m not using Nado on grounded opponents, as my posts says I rarely use any of his special moves because they are so punishable if whiffed. I’m also aware that you can use Nado to edgeguard but Nair is almost always the better option in the situations it would be used.

Nado is a nice recovery option and a niche edge-guarding tool.

Drill is not safe, none of this character’s specials are safe to throw out besides Cape and even that isn’t that safe. I’m also aware that Drill does stage spike but honestly if you do stage spike someone with it they horribly misplayed. Drill is an amazing recovery option yes. That’s about it.

Drill is an amazing recovery option. That’s literally all I can say about it. You can hit people with it and rack up some nice damage but the horrible landing lag afterwards gives you virtually no follow up. Now that I think about it this is pretty much the fastest way for MK to get someone offstage. Which I’ll admit is nice for a character of his design but it doesn’t make the move good.

After reading your comments on Cape it’s still no different. Good players aren’t going to charge smash attacks randomly, unless they’re going for a hard read on someone holding ledge.

Cape decent recovery option and a kill option with a very hard read.

Shuttle Loop is actually the only one I think is decent. It’s a nice OOS option. Catches people trying to land. Kills really early if all the stars align and you manage to land it on someone too close to the upper blast zone. Combo finisher like you said. This is an Up-B so I don’t really expect it to be safe.

And just so it’s known I’m not being aggressive I’m simply having a discussion with you.

What’s hurting Meta Knight in your opinion? I know the endlag on specials isn’t really what he needs, he really needs a damage buff. I just chose the worst option of the two to not seem like I’m crying for a major buff.

I just want to feel rewarded for destroying someone in neutral with him. Instead of destroying someone in neutral with him, then taking 2 hits that end up dealing more damage than your 6 hits did to the opponent.

I really don’t care, as I Maine’s doc Mario in smash 4 and it was torture but I have one word for advice, ADAPT TO “Overpowered characters”.
I’m sorry but what the hell are you talking about? Lol
 
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Rehnquist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
91
#5
I’m not using Nado on grounded opponents, as my posts says I rarely use any of his special moves because they are so punishable if whiffed. I’m also aware that you can use Nado to edgeguard but Nair is almost always the better option in the situations it would be used.

Nado is a nice recovery option and a niche edge-guarding tool.
You mentioned that if Nado was shielded you would get punished, that is why I mentioned the grounded opponent bit. Nado is indeed like a nair, execpt you can burn out 4 to 5 of your jumps and still recovery. Nado also works better for bridge combos than Nair.

You can drill a get up option as a mix up, and you can do a mix up a Uair ladder where you drill instead of SL to catch the air dodge if you think they are going to fall out of the ladder.

What’s hurting Meta Knight in your opinion?
His neutral isn't the best, and you can't give him range enough to compete with swordsmen, if MK is indeed needing a buff, it would be to modify some of the angles of his attacks or to increase his air speed to make his advantage state a bit easier / more effective. Damage isn't bad either if you want to raise him against MU's that have good recoveries.

Again, the game is still young, I'm not sure if he even needs a buff at the moment, but these are my thoughts on how to buff him while keeping the play style of what they have given us for MK.

I’m not using Nado on grounded opponents, as my posts says I rarely use any of his special moves because they are so punishable if whiffed. I’m also aware that you can use Nado to edgeguard but Nair is almost always the better option in the situations it would be used.

Nado is a nice recovery option and a niche edge-guarding tool.
You mentioned that if Nado was shielded you would get punished, that is why I mentioned the grounded opponent bit. Nado is indeed like a nair, execpt you can burn out 4 to 5 of your jumps and still recovery. Nado also works better for bridge combos than Nair.

You can drill a get up option as a mix up, and you can do a mix up a Uair ladder where you drill instead of SL to catch the air dodge if you think they are going to fall out of the ladder.

What’s hurting Meta Knight in your opinion?
His neutral isn't the best, and you can't give him range enough to compete with swordsmen, if MK is indeed needing a buff, it would be to modify some of the angles of his attacks or to increase his air speed to make his advantage state a bit easier / more effective. Damage isn't bad either if you want to raise him against MU's that have good recoveries.

Again, the game is still young, I'm not sure if he even needs a buff at the moment, but these are my thoughts on how to buff him while keeping the play style of what they have given us for MK.
 

Misteer

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
2
#6
A few buffs in the right place would make a massive difference to the character. I'd increase the range on his down-air so it's a reliable defensive tool, possibly on the back air as well, and up the damage on his forward air (which does only 6% damage for all 3 hits - normally forward air confirm gives 13-17% damage!). He could do with a safer grounded neutral tool, I really wish there was jab canceling in this game with him. Another thing that might actually benefit him is a longer roll animation especially if it would cover a bit more distance. And as OP has already said, any frames taken off the ending lag of Mach Tornado will make the move much more useful as a hit and run ability.
 
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