Mentally Ill Man Beaten to Death by Police

[Mr.Jackpot]

I don't even want to click on the link.

 

[Sucumbio]

Police just doing their jobs, and making sure they keep themselves safe so they can continue to provide for their families. Don't see what the fuss is about.

"To protect and to serve." That is their job. They work -for- us, the people. Zapping the guy 5 times and beating him to death with boots and flashlights is -not- their job. Or perhaps you missed the part where they brutally and inhumanly killed the unarmed suspect.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Come on Sucumbio. That is the weakest troll I've ever seen and you took the bait?

 

[Sucumbio]

lol I keep forgetting this isn't the DH.

 

[Teran]

What I generally hate about the police is that they think they're somehow above general population, which they're not because they're civil servants.

Also the funniest thing is how American police call the general population civilians, as if they're somehow some branch of the military. Actually come to think of it, that pretty much is the problem with policing nowadays, its impersonal and militaristic nature.

 

[Vinylic.]

Being a police officer is important. Being overconfident about it is where they'll make the wrong turn.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Beating a man to death isn't brought about by overconfidence.

 

[Alien Vision]

Beating a man to death isn't brought about by overconfidence.

It's brought by deranged judgment, and infested power. Blindness. Tunnel vision.

 

[theeboredone]

My dad got pulled over today, while we were coming back from my college after unloading the furniture (4 hour drive). He got caught for speeding 10 over the limit, and I figure it would have been a simple case of where they tell you what you were diong, you comply, give license, get ticket.

I don't want to make assumptions because our family is Pakistani and we're Muslim, but for whatever reason, he called in a second officer, had my dad step out, checked him for weapons, had my mom and my own license info taken down, then asked me some questions about what I was doing. My dad was clearly pissed off from all of this, and so was I...I wasn't sure if this was a case of racial profiling or cops simply doing their job. At the end of it all, after 20-25 minutes, he just let us go.

The only other time I've had to deal with a cop is when I failed to stop at a stop sign completely. The process didn't take long, he didn't have me do anything out of the ordinary and I got off with a warning.

So I'm not sure if the cop was simply using his authority over us or if racial profiling had something to do with it.

 

[Luigitoilet]

My dad got pulled over today, while we were coming back from my college after unloading the furniture (4 hour drive). He got caught for speeding 10 over the limit, and I figure it would have been a simple case of where they tell you what you were diong, you comply, give license, get ticket.

I don't want to make assumptions because our family is Pakistani and we're Muslim, but for whatever reason, he called in a second officer, had my dad step out, checked him for weapons, had my mom and my own license info taken down, then asked me some questions about what I was doing. My dad was clearly pissed off from all of this, and so was I...I wasn't sure if this was a case of racial profiling or cops simply doing their job. At the end of it all, after 20-25 minutes, he just let us go.

The only other time I've had to deal with a cop is when I failed to stop at a stop sign completely. The process didn't take long, he didn't have me do anything out of the ordinary and I got off with a warning.

So I'm not sure if the cop was simply using his authority over us or if racial profiling had something to do with it.

This DEFINITELY sounds like profiling to me.

 

[Alien Vision]

My dad got pulled over today, while we were coming back from my college after unloading the furniture (4 hour drive). He got caught for speeding 10 over the limit, and I figure it would have been a simple case of where they tell you what you were diong, you comply, give license, get ticket.

I don't want to make assumptions because our family is Pakistani and we're Muslim, but for whatever reason, he called in a second officer, had my dad step out, checked him for weapons, had my mom and my own license info taken down, then asked me some questions about what I was doing. My dad was clearly pissed off from all of this, and so was I...I wasn't sure if this was a case of racial profiling or cops simply doing their job. At the end of it all, after 20-25 minutes, he just let us go.

The only other time I've had to deal with a cop is when I failed to stop at a stop sign completely. The process didn't take long, he didn't have me do anything out of the ordinary and I got off with a warning.

So I'm not sure if the cop was simply using his authority over us or if racial profiling had something to do with it.

You may never know..

It could be a possibility by coincidence that they were already looking for somebody who was muslim, and you guys were just there at the wrong time. So obviously they would've been suspicious even though everything was normal for you guys.

Got to remember that there is a whole new world going on in everyone's head. Can't expect them to have super psychological powers to apprehend anybody of suspicious activity. It's practically working blindfolded. Everyone can be a threat.

@ Luigi, why jump to such a conclusion so fast? You weren't there.

 

[Luigitoilet]

I'm saying that's what it sounds like to me. I'm doing the same thing you are doing, just assuming and ruminating on the story. Get off my ****. It's a much bigger stretch to construct a "well maybe they were looking for a family of Muslim criminals who fit the description of the people in your car!" in my opinion.

I mean, it could be either way, and it's not like anyone will ever know for certain, but racial profiling is a very real thing that happens VERY often.

 

[Alien Vision]

I'm saying that's what it sounds like to me. I'm doing the same thing you are doing, just assuming and ruminating on the story. Get off my ****. It's a much bigger stretch to construct a "well maybe they were looking for a family of Muslim criminals who fit the description of the people in your car!" in my opinion.

I mean, it could be either way, and it's not like anyone will ever know for certain, but racial profiling is a very real thing that happens VERY often.

Of course, but you acted like your idea was certain. Express yourself cohesively is all I am saying. theboredone doesn't need to be under the impression of what cannot be answered.

We don't know why they did it, and why it was at a high level. All we can do is reflect and create our own ideas regarding it. What you did was not create an idea at all, you acted like it was the MOST probable thing, when really.. It doesn't sound that racy to me.. It's not their fault muslims are giving them a bad name out there. I said it ''could''. You practically said this: ''That MUST be it. I am 99% sure. *Even though I wasn't there, nor can I ever know what really was going on*.

Get off my case. You always think I am attacking you, which is one of the reasons why misconceptions are breeding everyday. Please stop this plethora of madness, and learn to look at me for who I am, and not what I am obliviously portraying.

 

[Spelt]

I thought alien vision got banned.

Sad day...

 

[Alien Vision]

I thought alien vision got banned.

Sad day...

Hello to you too.

 

[Vinylic.]

Lets not go any further on this.

It happened. And there will be cause and effects.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

If we're going to be what if-ing about why boredone's father was pulled over at least pick something rational (profiling) as opposed to some bs about being in the wrong place at the wrong time). AV, LT didn't say "this is 99% what happened"; he said that profiling was what HE thought happened. Just a personal opinion, chill.

 

[El Nino]

My dad got pulled over today, while we were coming back from my college after unloading the furniture (4 hour drive). He got caught for speeding 10 over the limit, and I figure it would have been a simple case of where they tell you what you were diong, you comply, give license, get ticket.

I don't want to make assumptions because our family is Pakistani and we're Muslim, but for whatever reason, he called in a second officer, had my dad step out, checked him for weapons, had my mom and my own license info taken down, then asked me some questions about what I was doing. My dad was clearly pissed off from all of this, and so was I...I wasn't sure if this was a case of racial profiling or cops simply doing their job. At the end of it all, after 20-25 minutes, he just let us go.

The only other time I've had to deal with a cop is when I failed to stop at a stop sign completely. The process didn't take long, he didn't have me do anything out of the ordinary and I got off with a warning.

So I'm not sure if the cop was simply using his authority over us or if racial profiling had something to do with it.

I'm with LT on this. It sounds like racial profiling. In some areas, it happens a lot if you're Hispanic too. They ask to see your license, and then they make you get out so they can search your person and your car. An Indian coworker of mine was questioned for about half an hour by police at a racetrack because they thought that he and his brother might have been terrorists (they actually told him this). He told us this story while explaining why he won't grow out his beard beyond a certain length.

Edit: A woman at an activist conference I attended some years ago told a story about how her kids were ordered out of their car at gunpoint by a group of officers. The cops were after three or four African-American men in a red car. Her car was burgundy, and one of her kids is a girl. They were traumatized to the point that the daughter said that she would never call the police for help. Obviously, it's tough being the cop in that situation because you have to worry about your own *** getting shot. But I think it's even harder for the kids growing up under those circumstances. You've got gangs on one side and cops on the other, and sometimes it's like you don't know which one is going to kill you first.

 

[Alien Vision]

Sigh.. :random:

 

[Vinylic.]

The edit was harsh. :s
Makes the main topic more reasonable.

 

[Glöwworm]

Had he said that they stopped his dad and let him go shortly, it would be wrong imo to claim racial profiling. "They only stopped him because my dad is Pakistani". Based on what he said, I think it's ok to assume it was racial profiling. What would be a normal minor traffic stop, turned out into a largely unneeded ordeal.

 

[theeboredone]

Personally, I thought it was racial profiling, but I honestly don't know my laws well enough to defend myself in a situation like that. After I got home, I actually did some research on this, and turns out that my mom and I are not obligated to give our licenses to the cops, because one, we were not driving, and two, there is no probable cause for what, we the passengers were doing.

Though it appears some states require you to give your name and address, but not exactly your Driver's License.

Overall, the ordeal was just annoying to deal with. My dad got his info down as well, and if he "feels" like it, might give their station a call as well to complain. I just think what pissed my dad off the most was they had to pad him down for weapons. Personally, I do understand why cops do this to a certain extent...I mean you never know if one of us is an illegal immigrant or a terrorist. However, if I complied nicely and I still had to step out of the cars to get padded down and what not...that's just wrong.

 

[Sucumbio]

yeah but don't bank on that, yo. if you're asked for id, give it if you have it. if you don't, they can get you for "failure to identify" which isn't even real in most states, but enough to give them enough to take you in and a judge to be ok with it... plus if you lie and say you don't have it, they can still search you and then find it and then put their foot to your ***.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Bump for update

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...html?icid=maing-grid7|aim|dl7|sec1_lnk3|97750

SANTA ANA, Calif. -- Two police officers were charged Wednesday in the death of a mentally ill homeless man in Southern California who was beaten and repeatedly shocked with a stun gun during his arrest, authorities said.

Officer Manuel Ramos was charged with one count each of second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter in the death of 37-year-old Kelly Thomas after a violent confrontation on July 5 with officers, Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said at a news conference.

Police Cpl. Jay Cicinelli was charged with one count each of involuntary manslaughter and excessive force, he said.

Rackauckas said a review of the evidence showed Thomas was acting "in self-defense, in pain and in a state of panic."

"His numerous pleas of `I'm sorry,' `I can't breathe,' `Help Dad' (were) all to no avail. Screams, loud screams, didn't help," the prosecutor said.

The prosecutor said police officers have a right to use reasonable force in the performance of a lawful duty but citizens have a right to self-defense, even against the police.

Lorie Fridell, an associate professor of criminology at the University of South Florida, said it is highly unusual for a police officer to be charged with murder.

"It is quite appropriate in such cases to hold officers to account," Fridell said. "Often, however prosecutors will give officers the benefit of the doubt."

Ron Thomas, Kelly Thomas' father, said he was pleased with the charges but still suffers every day as a result of his son's death.

"That's exactly what I hoped for," Ron Thomas said of the charges.. "It makes me feel fantastic that this is happening, it's the justice we need."

Bill Hadden, an attorney representing Cincinelli, didn't immediately return a call for comment. A call to a home number for Ramos rang unanswered.

Arraignment was scheduled later Wednesday.

Six officers were placed on paid administrative leave after the incident that occurred while police were investigating reported vehicle break-ins at a transit hub.

Thomas suffered severe head and neck injuries and was taken off life support five days later.

Thomas suffered from schizophrenia and lived on the streets even though he received support from family and friends.

Police said Thomas ran when officers tried to search his bag. A struggle followed when they tried to arrest him for investigation of possession of stolen goods.

Video from a bystander's cell phone taken from a distance showed parts of the bloody encounter in which Thomas can be heard screaming for his father.

Surveillance video aboard a bus showed agitated passengers telling the driver that officers beat and repeatedly used a stun gun during the arrest.

After the incident, the police chief went on medical leave and the embattled City Council hired a law enforcement expert to investigate Police Department practices.

Incensed community members held demonstrations and started an effort to recall the mayor and two councilmembers over the incident.

Ron Thomas, the father of the dead man, filed a claim seeking damages from the city.

He has previously released his son's medical records showing Thomas suffered broken bones in his face, choked on his own blood and was repeatedly shocked with two stun guns.

News reports show Cincinelli left the Los Angeles Police Department after losing an eye in 1996 while working as a probationary officer.

Cincinelli, who was 25 at the time, was shot during an on-duty gunfight during a traffic stop less than three weeks after graduating from the Police Academy, according to news accounts.

To be honest, I had zero expectations of any of these officers seeing justice. It's a very good day.

 

[Vinylic.]

Indeed. Justice is served and served good.

 

[El Nino]

I'm interested in seeing how their criminal cases turn out. The officer who shot and killed Oscar Grant in Oakland, CA got two years, the minimum sentence. Though I realize that he clearly did not intend to kill Grant, I'm not sure how to justify a two year sentence. If these two officers are convicted and given stiffer sentences, it's not going to help the public perception of racism in the criminal justice system.

 

[NTA]

What's with police and brutality :/

 

[Falconv1.0]

What's with police and brutality :/

You're basically asking what's with people and sometimes going way the **** too far with violence. Man, I sure hope you're willing to stick to your guns when it comes to holding groups responsible for criminal acts like "man what's with black people and robbery" when someone posts a story about a black man mugging people.

 

[NTA]

Lol makes sense. Still waiting for the day I see one of those clouds that come from those nuclear bombs.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Your response to people calling you out on terrible questions is to make terrible statements?

Aight.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Police nowadays can be summarized with a simple description: Powertrips with badges.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Police nowadays can be summarized with a simple description: Powertrips with badges.

Are you implying that there was some period of time when there was far less dirty cops?

But yes let's summarize all of them with a blanket statement, because being a cop is such an easy job right?

 

[Claire Diviner]

Are you implying that there was some period of time when there was far less dirty cops?

But yes let's summarize all of them with a blanket statement, because being a cop is such an easy job right?

Well, I suppose there was no period where there were nothing but clean cops, so I'll give you that.

As for the job of being a cop, being easy or hard is irrelevant to my statement. To use such unnecessary force, which could result in the death of someone, and then use bull**** to cover it up, is certainly a powertrip. I know there are good officers out there, but the number of stories and cases, as is the case of the main topic, pretty much stamps a stigma that cops have had for a while now: corrupt, violent, and unreliable.

Take it as you wish, but the fact of the matter is, as long as stories of corruption like this arise, there will always be more and more hate for cops. The same could be said for just about anyone else.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Well, I suppose there was no period where there were nothing but clean cops, so I'll give you that.

As for the job of being a cop, being easy or hard is irrelevant to my statement. To use such unnecessary force, which could result in the death of someone, and then use bull**** to cover it up, is certainly a powertrip. I know there are good officers out there, but the number of stories and cases, as is the case of the main topic, pretty much stamps a stigma that cops have had for a while now: corrupt, violent, and unreliable.

Take it as you wish, but the fact of the matter is, as long as stories of corruption like this arise, there will always be more and more hate for cops. The same could be said for just about anyone else.

Yes, a lot of negative stories exist, that doesn't excuse one of the few things that does give us some sense of goddamn order. So what, should we **** on soldiers and doctors if I find enough bad stories about them? I'm not saying **** like this story isn't disgusting but what you said was an offensive blanket statement.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Yes, a lot of negative stories exist, that doesn't excuse one of the few things that does give us some sense of goddamn order. So what, should we **** on soldiers and doctors if I find enough bad stories about them? I'm not saying **** like this story isn't disgusting but what you said was an offensive blanket statement.

There are offensive blanket statements all the time. My statement should be the least of anyone's problems. It's my opinion, and whether it has value or not, it is what it is. You either agree with it, or you don't. In either case, one should just move on and not let it bring a rain of crap on one's day, hour, minute, or moment.

 

[Luigitoilet]

Well, I suppose there was no period where there were nothing but clean cops, so I'll give you that.

As for the job of being a cop, being easy or hard is irrelevant to my statement. To use such unnecessary force, which could result in the death of someone, and then use bull**** to cover it up, is certainly a powertrip. I know there are good officers out there, but the number of stories and cases, as is the case of the main topic, pretty much stamps a stigma that cops have had for a while now: corrupt, violent, and unreliable.

Take it as you wish, but the fact of the matter is, as long as stories of corruption like this arise, there will always be more and more hate for cops. The same could be said for just about anyone else.

The problem with this logic is this: you always hear stories about police brutality because that is news. People doing their jobs is not news, so why would you hear news reports about it? You also fail to grasp that what is portrayed by the media is not reflective of all reality. Yeah, it's your opinion but it's an extremely naive, uninformed and uncritical one and it shouldn't be a shock when someone calls you out on it.

 

[Claire Diviner]

The problem with this logic is this: you always hear stories about police brutality because that is news. People doing their jobs is not news, so why would you hear news reports about it? You also fail to grasp that what is portrayed by the media is not reflective of all reality. Yeah, it's your opinion but it's an extremely naive, uninformed and uncritical one and it shouldn't be a shock when someone calls you out on it.

In hindsight, perhaps. I don't really take news of an incident and use that as a view of all reality. Yeah, my post suggests otherwise, but I was stating an at-the-moment opinion. Does it mean that is how I've always viewed law enforcement? No. Will I view law enforcement this way from here on? Depends on the level of corruption really. Still, if my opinion - an opinion from a mere minority in the statistic of society - causes someone to call me out in such a way, then perhaps I've done something significant enough... though not necessarily in a good way, but enough nonetheless.

At least the brutal cops are getting what they deserve. Hopefully more of them get put away.

Spoiler

That last sentence is there to stay on topic